Coach Is Hardwick now the second best coach in the league behind Clarkson?

[Boston tiger]

We haven't won a final in 4 years, I'm happy to admit that & i'm not hurt about it... but look at Hardwick with Richmond also, Not winning a final in how ever long. I said at the start of my post it should be about Flags as that defines success imo. So yeah if Sheedy and Matthews came back then they would be the best coaches because they have the flags to back it up. Once again, imo. Flags define success because at the end of the day that's why the players play, and its why the coaches coach.

So are Carlton and Essendon the 2 best teams in the comp?

 

[blaisee]

So are Carlton and Essendon the 2 best teams in the comp?

Lol

 

[UAWM]

So are Carlton and Essendon the 2 best teams in the comp?

Yeah mate, nobody is better..

 

[blaisee]

Yeah mate, nobody is better..

Ridiculous isn’t it?

Just like your argument

 

[UAWM]

Ridiculous isn’t it?

Just like your argument

You can't be this thick. The question is about Coaches,not teams. My OPINION is it should go off on Flags as that is what defines success in this league. If you're going to go off on a whatever team has won more Grand Finals then yeah its Essendon & Carlton, why? Cause they have the most flags. Which makes them the most successful clubs. At the moment in the current competition, no, they aren't the most successful. But again, we're talking about Coaches, not teams. Stay on topic champ unless it's too hard for you

 

[blaisee]

You can't be this thick. The question is about Coaches,not teams. My OPINION is it should go off on Flags as that is what defines success in this league. If you're going to go off on a whatever team has won more Grand Finals then yeah its Essendon & Carlton, why? Cause they have the most flags. Which makes them the most successful clubs. At the moment in the current competition, no, they aren't the most successful. But again, we're talking about Coaches, not teams. Stay on topic champ unless it's too hard for you

no.

You said that if Mathews and Sheedy somehow got a job now, they would be joint number 1 now with Clarko cause they have 4 flags,

Then you agreed that the best teams are the ones with most flags, like the dons and blues

Then you threw the toys out of the cot because you argument was exposed as ridiculous

 

[UAWM]

no.

You said that if Mathews and Sheedy somehow got a job now, they would be joint number 1 now with Clarko cause they have 4 flags,

Then you agreed that the best teams are the ones with most flags, like the dons and blues

Then you threw the toys out of the cot because you argument was exposed as ridiculous

lol, it's honestly not worth arguing with you. At the end of the day the question is about Hardwick & Clarkson, and who is better. It's Clarkson - Hands down. 4 Premierships to 2. Both are great coaches but Clarkson wins in every way. love u tho

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

This is ridiculous.

Clarko is the best coach of the modern era, miles ahead of Hardwick and an outright #1 for years to come.

He built the Hawks to the '08 flag - and then, despite going through a lull, he built his team up again with pretty much a vastly different personnel (and lack of quality draft picks due to their successful period of earlier) and won it again - 3 TIMES. He inherited nothing (unlike Hardwick), it was all him. That's what separates them both, the undoubted re-builds.

I dislike the Hawks and always have, but I can admit that Clarko fits the mould of an untoucheable coach.

To even put Hardwick close to him is a both pathetic and disgusting.

Agree that Clarkson is number 1 but how can you say he inherited nothing while Hardwick did? What did Hardwick inherit? A club that was being labelled “worse than Fitzroy” and was 4 million in debt.

He inherited Martin, Cotchin, Rance, Deledio, Riewoldt, Edwards and a bunch of scrubs. Clarkson inherited Franklin, Roughead, Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis and a much stronger support cast than Hardwick. Both took over ordinary lists with some genuine young talent and turned them into powerhouses

 

[BF Tiger]

I guess Allan Jeans was the best coach in the league when he came to Richmond. What went wrong?

Collingwood, Geelong and Sydney fans must still thank Hafey for the impact he had on them when they won flags decades later.

 

[JoondalupJ]

For me, yes. And clearly.

Consider his record factoring in where Richmond came from. Prior to Hardwick, Richmond had not made finals since 2001 and had made 3 finals series since 1980, where they won their last flag.

In 10 seasons under Hardwick, Tigers have made 5 finals series and won 2 premierships. In one of those years, he took the Tigers to finals after starting 3-10, never been done in history. He took a side that finished 13th in 2016 to Premiers in 2017, the greatest jump in one season the AFL has seen.

We were a basket case when Dimma took over, regular fixtures in the bottom 4, yet Hardwick's record now stands at 130-99-2 from 231 games coached. Not bad at all considering the platform he inherited.

Aside from Clarko, for me Hardwick is the clear number 2 coach in the league, particularly based on his record.

Some wanted him sacked in 2016, but the club stood by him and his record now is outstanding on paper.

. What I think is that Hardwick is the better one to learn from a bloke who had at a young age an idea and a way to slowly build something not quite but almost unbeatable. Of all coaches from Clarkson Dimma has had two things, he has learnt patience ! He has had sensible and determined administrators that under stood that nothing really really good comes from the to and fro with the coach sacking and renewing disease that sits in the mindset of many AFL clubs inside their administrations.
Damien has been allowed to follow his long road ,which is the only way to success like 2017, 2018 and 2019 have been, high finals last year 2018, the premiership the year before 2017 .
Building and trying and falling short but persevering through the years ofhard times, and allowed to to keep trying. Then gets number two Flag a massacre of GWS!
Why because precision in our game, the way it’s played today, needs a long term plan,it needs several years to get players so connected to a plan and a structure that it becomes mechanical as they rip the hearts out of opponents.
It also needs the time to not only pick good players but pick good people not just to play the game.
The whole structure of a club is from the top to the last person on the team of the total club like they say down to the boot studder!
Everyone is involved Clarkson brought that to Hawthorn smart man Damien Hardwick saw it instantly and went on with it, learnt the way, maybe not exactly Clarke, but why would he be , he is an equal in a really hard time with the AFL twisting our game in so many bad directions Hardwick has created a real terrifying TIGER,I knew he learnt well because in a couple of our Hawks premiership years Richmond wiped the floor, that is what being great is beating very very dangerous opponents, Dimma has done it and Clarko is simply football brained, just knows how. Now all the others have to learn.
But the ones who really need to do some learning are the administrations of other clubs, they either hold too long with mediocrity or sack too quickly. It’s a long term operation now days and don,t be surprised if my mob put up a big fat attempt 2020.

 

[Toump Ass]

Hardwick is the clear number 2 coach in the league

What a load of PONY CRAP.

What's Al Clarkson done recently? I'll tell you what he's done recently- the exact same as me. He's done sweet ---- all, that's all Al Clarkson has done recently.

Never mind the coaches box, forget about the interchange bench. Al Clarkson watched the last finals series on the coach eating a fat ******* bag of Dorito corn chips while drinking some of those fancy "CRAFT BEERS" from the Church St. boozer... washed down with an ocean-sized serving of premium fluoride-free BATHWATER no doubt.

The last time FIGJAM from FOURTHORN played finals he got whipped by a gormless idiot named SIMON GOODWIN. Hawks couldn't even beat the Dees last year, even after recruiting SUPERSTARS like Tom Scully, Chad Winghard. A few more games into WORPEDO "Rising Star Winner" Worpell. Full season from Jaeger O'Meara. Full season from Burgoyne, Sam Mitchell back in the yellow and brown, All-Australians on every line, farewell tour for Jordan Roughead... and they still couldn't make finals!!!

What does that tell you? It tells me Al Clarkson needs to go the same way as Kev Sheedy and Rocket Eade and piss off to the retirement village. Good on him for winning a couple of flags on the back of some priority picks and the compromised drafts (...and one EPIC choke from Gelnong) but he ain't worth a BUCKET OF s**t right now. He might not be driving the "FERRARI" anymore but he's sure as hell not cruising around in rusted old Datsun either.

Hardwick isn't BEHIND Clarkson, HE'S LITERALLY SITTING ON HIS FACE.

RICHMOND NUMBER ONE! RICHMOND NUMBER ONE!!!!!

Hardwick is the clear number 2 coach in the league, particularly based on his record.

Thanks for throwing in this disclaimer by the way, would hate to think you were rating Hardwick as #2 based on his haircut

 

[blaisee]

lol, it's honestly not worth arguing with you.

I would recommend this because the alternative s that you force me to make you look silly, and nobody wants that

 

[UAWM]

I would recommend this because the alternative s that you force me to make you look silly, and nobody wants that

ok dad

 

[JoondalupJ]

What a load of PONY CRAP.

What's Al Clarkson done recently? I'll tell you what he's done recently- the exact same as me. He's done sweet ---- all, that's all Al Clarkson has done recently.

Never mind the coaches box, forget about the interchange bench. Al Clarkson watched the last finals series on the coach eating a fat ******* bag of Dorito corn chips while drinking some of those fancy "CRAFT BEERS" from the Church St. boozer... washed down with an ocean-sized serving of premium fluoride-free BATHWATER no doubt.

The last time FIGJAM from FOURTHORN played finals he got whipped by a gormless idiot named SIMON GOODWIN. Hawks couldn't even beat the Dees last year, even after recruiting SUPERSTARS like Tom Scully, Chad Winghard. A few more games into WORPEDO "Rising Star Winner" Worpell. Full season from Jaeger O'Meara. Full season from Burgoyne, Sam Mitchell back in the yellow and brown, All-Australians on every line, farewell tour for Jordan Roughead... and they still couldn't make finals!!!

What does that tell you? It tells me Al Clarkson needs to go the same way as Kev Sheedy and Rocket Eade and piss off to the retirement village. Good on him for winning a couple of flags on the back of some priority picks and the compromised drafts (...and one EPIC choke from Gelnong) but he ain't worth a BUCKET OF s**t right now. He might not be driving the "FERRARI" anymore but he's sure as hell not cruising around in rusted old Datsun either.

Hardwick isn't BEHIND Clarkson, HE'S LITERALLY SITTING ON HIS FACE.

RICHMOND NUMBER ONE! RICHMOND NUMBER ONE!!!!!

Thanks for throwing in this disclaimer by the way, would hate to think you were rating Hardwick as #2 based on his haircut

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha but...but.... you barrack for who ? Is that poor club named after a great Capital city you just want Clarko or Dimma to coach your club, but I wonder if they could save you, 1964 is last century. Clarko.s got a pillow between his face and dim as arse anyway.

 

[Leeda]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha but...but.... you barrack for who ? Is that poor club named after a great Capital city you just want Clarko or Dimma to coach your club, but I wonder if they could save you, 1964 is last century. Clarko.s got a pillow between his face and dim as arse anyway.

Choc fool of shock dude...right on..

 

[The full package]

They are hard to compare, Hawthorn were already rebuilding there list before Clarko got there and were a far better club off the field, they knew what they wanted and drafted well in the "super draft". Richmond were a basket case on the other hand when Hardwick walked in. Clarko did as well as anyone could've and built a dynasty while Hardwick, had to rebuild with compromised draft years and alot of senior retirements just prior to his appointment.

If I had to choose who's shoes I walked in those years, it would be Hardwick for the pure satisfaction of turning a club from basket case to elitist. Doing it the hard way. You couldn't have asked any more from Clarko, a pure football genius. But from a pure satisfaction point of view I couldn't go past Hardwick.

I know that doesn't give an answer as you cant measure one coach against another unless they had the exact same teams which is impossible.

 

[Lsta062]

I feel like you have trouble understanding what I am saying. Scott with 2 flags (currently has 1) puts him above Hardwick with 2 flags based on W/L etc.

Also, clap back when Scott loses a final to a team that finished the season in 9th.

Thanks m8.

Scott took over one of the best teams in the modern era when he won his first flag as a coach. They were basically a self-coaching group, meaning that he didn’t build the side. Of course he’s going to have a better W/L record. Hardwick took over a basket case.

Not saying he is a bad coach, but Hardwick built this side as they won their first Premiership 8 years into his tenure at Richmond.

Hardwick > Scott even if Scott goes level with Hardwick on 2 Premierships.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Chris Scott isn’t in the same state as the other two.
Clarko was a great innovator, but like others have said, the compromised drafts due to GC and GWS doesn’t paint a fair playing ground for the lower or on the rise teams when they 3 peated, not to take away from that enormous achievement though.
Hardwick had a game plan in mind and a solid 6 elite players to lead that game plan.
He seems to have instructed his list managers to go out and find me a swarming bunch of quick, tough, no nonsense little blokes to cherry my cake with.
I’m more enamoured by Hardwick now that he has 2 Cups, more so than I’ve ever been with Clarko and his 4.
It may be my Carlton bias shining through, but hey, I’ve confirmed my confirmation bias so you don’t have to point it out.

So it’s Hardwick for me.

 

[Ron The Bear]

He inherited nothing (unlike Hardwick)

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/why-there-is-hope-for-richmond-20100504-u691.html

Hardwick’s approach not surprisingly recalls unfashionable Hawthorn coach Alastair Clarkson in his first season, 2005. The Hawks won only five games that year, but persisted with Clarkson’s seemingly eccentric gameplan, and played raw kids, offloading club veterans and stalwarts considered irrelevant to their longer term plans.

Richmond’s plight is much worse than Hawthorn’s in 2005, but in Hardwick, they have a coach who was an assistant in that campaign, and in the steady climb of Port Adelaide towards its first flag. He was a tough, honest back-pocket as a footballer. He is made of the right stuff, and has the right attitude, and the Tiger fans have voted with their wallets.
...
Hawthorn went from 12,484 members in 1996, as they wandered aimlessly into debt and obsolescence, to 27,005 members the following season when, jolted by the near-miss merger with Melbourne, the club regained its purpose. Just over a decade later, they had a premiership.

Richmond fans would settle for that timeframe.

 

[4THAWN]

Agree that Clarkson is number 1 but how can you say he inherited nothing while Hardwick did? What did Hardwick inherit? A club that was being labelled “worse than Fitzroy” and was 4 million in debt.

He inherited Martin, Cotchin, Rance, Deledio, Riewoldt, Edwards and a bunch of scrubs. Clarkson inherited Franklin, Roughead, Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis and a much stronger support cast than Hardwick. Both took over ordinary lists with some genuine young talent and turned them into powerhouses

except you forgot to mention clarko didn't inherit roughy, franklin or lewis, and he instead actually drafted them himself as opposed to walking into the club with these players already there e.g. what Dimma did.

would be a decent comparison if Dimma had helped the club draft Dusty, Reiwoldt, Rance etc. but these players were already at the club when he arrived.

 

[Ron The Bear]

except you forgot to mention clarko didn't inherit roughy, franklin or lewis, and he instead actually drafted them himself as opposed to walking into the club with these players already there e.g. what Dimma did.

would be a decent comparison if Dimma had helped the club draft Dusty, Reiwoldt, Rance etc. but these players were already at the club when he arrived.

Hardwick was appointed in August, well before Martin was drafted.

 

[BF Tiger]

except you forgot to mention clarko didn't inherit roughy, franklin or lewis, and he instead actually drafted them himself as opposed to walking into the club with these players already there e.g. what Dimma did.

would be a decent comparison if Dimma had helped the club draft Dusty, Reiwoldt, Rance etc. but these players were already at the club when he arrived.

Dimma has to uncoach the Wallace out of those guys while Clarko got a blank canvas.

 

[lionbear]

One Neil Allen Balme has a lot to do with the recent success of the RFC.

He got the whole joint into order and calmed the farm.

Dimma is a good coach. Great people skills. Everything turned around when he put more faith in his leadership group and stopped trying to take on the whole load.

He’s a good man Hardwick. Saw his failings a few years ago and adapted. Took on a new approach.

Balme has a bit to do with all that.

Is it a coincidence that Hawthorn haven’t won a final since Fagan went to Brisbane?

 

[4THAWN]

Hardwick was appointed in August, well before Martin was drafted.

alright so regardless, lids, reiwoldt, cotchin, edwards, rance is at worst equal to, if not a better starting hand than hodge, mitchell, bateman, sewell, brown, osborne

 

[evo]

If I was a Richmond supporter I'd be wondering what could have been if Dimma didn't spend far too long wasting some of their stars better years trying to emulate the Hawthorn kicking game style and focused on this selfless team pressure game sooner.

100% right. We had the wrong gameplan for our list. Thankfully our coaching staff finally worked it out, and the rest is history.

Better late than never.