simba_
sucking a lemon
who the hell is steven wells
Is Steven Wells seriously past it?
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I think he was ****ed off with all the Kelly picks coming in and going out the other end with Cameron. Hasn’t he decided to cut back on his role ?
- Jan 17, 2013
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The GC PP gift trade and the Kelly trade should have catapulted them into a quick reset, it really annoyed me the amount of draft capital they built so easily.
They managed to blow the entire mother load on Cameron.
They managed to blow the entire mother load on Cameron.
hard to say from so far away, but possibly... its also possible he has a huge reputation remaining from those 2 or 3 enormous drafts that built the premiership team.
seems to go ok plucking talented and overlooked players late in the draft and rookie draft. but at the same time, seems to also drastically over-pay for limited players early in the draft.
geelong have needed a reliable ruckman for a decade, and could have had brodie gruny, but he went for jackson thurlow, who we could have likely got 2 or 3 rounds later anyway, and did very little for geelong before going to sydney for pick 72 or something. so many first round picks that we ended up discarding for nothing, or who are currently running around for other teams with varying degrees of success.
more goes in to making a player than picking them as a 17 year old though, so regardless it can't all be placed on wells when they either do or dont succeed.
but without knowing anything of the full story, it feels like he tries a little too hard to pick 'overlooked diamonds in the rough' when far better options were available, and those ones he did picked likely would have still been around later in the draft.
but hindsight drafting can be done perfectly by anyone.
seems to go ok plucking talented and overlooked players late in the draft and rookie draft. but at the same time, seems to also drastically over-pay for limited players early in the draft.
geelong have needed a reliable ruckman for a decade, and could have had brodie gruny, but he went for jackson thurlow, who we could have likely got 2 or 3 rounds later anyway, and did very little for geelong before going to sydney for pick 72 or something. so many first round picks that we ended up discarding for nothing, or who are currently running around for other teams with varying degrees of success.
more goes in to making a player than picking them as a 17 year old though, so regardless it can't all be placed on wells when they either do or dont succeed.
but without knowing anything of the full story, it feels like he tries a little too hard to pick 'overlooked diamonds in the rough' when far better options were available, and those ones he did picked likely would have still been around later in the draft.
but hindsight drafting can be done perfectly by anyone.
Wojcinski
Brownlow Medallist
Considering the picks given up for Cameron ended being in the late teens and early twenties, and the 2 picks received ended in the early 30s a year later I don't think it's all that bad.
Did Wells tend to do that before Chris Scot became coach?
- Oct 12, 2016
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I thought the setup changed, what does Andrew Mackie do? There also rumours Chris Scott has a big say in list management.
- Sep 3, 2019
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He invented groundwater extraction
Yes - has been doing it since 2004ish. We don't have the high draft picks so in the first round he has tended to pick players who are talented but NQR so they slip in the draft. Motlop, Varcoe, Selwood are three examples off the top of my head. Wells record with first round picks not great and certainly not better than some other recruiters. His record with late and rookie picks is very good though which is where the reputation mostly comes from.
Tulip
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It’s a mixture of low picks and club strategy, plus Wells probably losing the magic touch whilst still having the ability to pluck good players very late.
We had the following players front up last week:
17:
29 Spargo
31 Fritsch
35 Spargo
18:
27 Sparrow
33 Jordon
19:
3 Jackson
12 Pickett
32 Rivers
20:
21 Bowey
—-
With the exception of Jackson of course, who was very high, that’s a collection of very young players (aside from Fritsch who was picked up a bit older) playing key roles that were chosen in the late first round to the late second. Wells used to nail these picks but, truth be told, just a small drop off from a recruiter shows pretty quickly and this would appear to be the case here.
We had the following players front up last week:
17:
29 Spargo
31 Fritsch
35 Spargo
18:
27 Sparrow
33 Jordon
19:
3 Jackson
12 Pickett
32 Rivers
20:
21 Bowey
—-
With the exception of Jackson of course, who was very high, that’s a collection of very young players (aside from Fritsch who was picked up a bit older) playing key roles that were chosen in the late first round to the late second. Wells used to nail these picks but, truth be told, just a small drop off from a recruiter shows pretty quickly and this would appear to be the case here.
Monocle
And the rebuild begins.
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Not entirely sure if Wells is past it, but I have absolutely no doubt that the current Geelong List is well and truely past it.
All of these guys are doing exceedingly well, with the exception of the second Spargo, of whom I have never before heard.
. Harrison Petty at pick 37 should be there of course and he is flying.But not really any of these players, with the possible exception of Petty at times, are in key roles. They are, as would be expected of fairly talented youngsters, filling most of he peripheral roles within the team at this time. Pressure forward, 3rd/4th tall forward, second ruck, running backs, 3rd wingers and 5th inside mids.
All of these guys are doing exceedingly well, with the exception of the second Spargo, of whom I have never before heard.
But not really any of these players, with the possible exception of Petty at times, are in key roles. They are, as would be expected of fairly talented youngsters, filling most of he peripheral roles within the team at this time. Pressure forward, 3rd/4th tall forward, second ruck, running backs, 3rd wingers and 5th inside mids.
It does underscore though - yet again - consistently hitting the draft and just getting solid returns can turn your team around very quickly.
I've never agreed with the focus (and obsession) on very early picks, sure they help, but I maintain you start aggressively hitting the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th round picks, it doesn't take long before you see the benefits.
There’s this game called football or AFL. He’s a really well known recruitment officer for one of the teams called Geelong.
If you want to assess on drafts you need to look at who he took with available picks against who else was available.
2020
Pick 20 Max Holmes - looking ok
2019
Pick 16 Cooper Stephens
Pick 19 Sam De Koning
Not so good when you look at Georgiades (19), Robertson (22), Schoenberg (24) and Rivers (33)
2018
Pick 15 Jordan Clark leaving Duursma (18), Bobby Hill (24) Rowbottom (25)
2017
Pick 22 Lachlan Fogarty
Pick 24 Tim Kelly
While Kelly was a good pick he took on the flight risk. Other options were Noah Balta (25) Liam Ryan (26) and Sam Taylor (28) plus plenty of others.
How much better would Geelong look with Georgiades and perhaps Sam Taylor in their mix
2020
Pick 20 Max Holmes - looking ok
2019
Pick 16 Cooper Stephens
Pick 19 Sam De Koning
Not so good when you look at Georgiades (19), Robertson (22), Schoenberg (24) and Rivers (33)
2018
Pick 15 Jordan Clark leaving Duursma (18), Bobby Hill (24) Rowbottom (25)
2017
Pick 22 Lachlan Fogarty
Pick 24 Tim Kelly
While Kelly was a good pick he took on the flight risk. Other options were Noah Balta (25) Liam Ryan (26) and Sam Taylor (28) plus plenty of others.
How much better would Geelong look with Georgiades and perhaps Sam Taylor in their mix
Failing to get at least best 22 role played with picks in the 10-25ish range has set Geelongs list back. Tim Kelly and Parfitt their only real hit in that area of the draft in the 2010s. With all of Lang, Smedts, Cockatoo, Fogarty and Thurlow is an average group.
Geelong desperately need Stephens, Clark, Holmes and DeKoning to come on to accelerate their rebuild.
That being said Menengola, Henry, Blicavs and Stewart are genuine guns who have been plucked from obscurity so realistically you’d say Geelong have come out ahead.
I’m not sure how much of it is luck but realistically the true test of Wells will when Geelong rebuild how well he selects top end talent at the pointy end of the draft.
That being said I’m hoping Geelong continue with their strategy of grabbing older guys. It’s interesting to see a club try and succeed without rebuilding. Reckon a Rory Sloane type could be gettable cheaply and guys like Melksham, Polec, Lynch could all be valuable players in the right system.
Geelong desperately need Stephens, Clark, Holmes and DeKoning to come on to accelerate their rebuild.
That being said Menengola, Henry, Blicavs and Stewart are genuine guns who have been plucked from obscurity so realistically you’d say Geelong have come out ahead.
I’m not sure how much of it is luck but realistically the true test of Wells will when Geelong rebuild how well he selects top end talent at the pointy end of the draft.
That being said I’m hoping Geelong continue with their strategy of grabbing older guys. It’s interesting to see a club try and succeed without rebuilding. Reckon a Rory Sloane type could be gettable cheaply and guys like Melksham, Polec, Lynch could all be valuable players in the right system.
Except only 1 top 10 pick went straight up for Cameron, and they otherwise downgraded the late firsts in perhaps the most compromised draft of all time to get a pair of 2nd rounders. Essendon and GWS' strong performance against expectations this year has taken the shine off those second rounders a bit, but overall pick 20 last year vs pick 30 this year, is there actually much difference there?
Which gets back to the crux of the issue, when you keep picking in the mid to late teens year after year you're going to have misses. Especially if you use those picks on upside players like talls, speedy types or risk/reward selections like Cockatoo.
Stewart, Blicavs, Menegola, Tim Kelly, Henry etc. There's enough evidence to show Wells is still a very good talent spotter. The draft is just working against them as it's meant to. Combined with their desire to use list spots on as many mature age options that keep coming their way.
Hindsight says they probably should've turned down Jack Steven and Shaun Higgins as too good to be true. I don't think many clubs would've turned down Rohan and Dahlhaus lobbing for free. Nor Isaac Smith. Nor Cameron for cents on the dollar.
I do have it on decent authority though that the Cats footy department went through some turmoil a few years back and were very understaffed. Wells probably ended up doing too much and that might've impacted his hit rate with the picks like Thurlow, Lang etc.
Hindsight says they probably should've turned down Jack Steven and Shaun Higgins as too good to be true. I don't think many clubs would've turned down Rohan and Dahlhaus lobbing for free. Nor Isaac Smith. Nor Cameron for cents on the dollar.
I do have it on decent authority though that the Cats footy department went through some turmoil a few years back and were very understaffed. Wells probably ended up doing too much and that might've impacted his hit rate with the picks like Thurlow, Lang etc.
Clark walked straight in to the Cats best team aged 18 in 2019 and looked like Enright re-imagined. Then just hasn't been the same since getting injured late in that year. Played out of position. Played as the sub. It's interesting to know if there's anything the recruiters saw that could've predicted the current issues in his game or if there's something the Cats haven't got right in his development.
At the end of his first year I'd have said it was an absolute home run of a pick
Yeah it looked like a fantastic pick at the end of 2019 but he has gone backwards since then. I am not sure why as you say, maybe it is our development, maybe his work ethic/attitude, maybe a bit of both. Then again Holmes comes in raw AF and is developing very quickly into an AFL player.
Thurlow looked fantastic in his debut year, did his knee and was never the same player. Lang and Fogarty were bad picks and we will never know with Cockatoo.
- May 12, 2015
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Wells is the least of Geelong's problems imo. He's done pretty well with the hand he's been dealt
