Keith Pitt the lobby group for coal within government.

[Cap]

Then start calling out the lies that litter the renewables are cheaper line as if it is just the sun & the wind are free, so your power bill .....

The 'nation-building' project with issues as big as its ambitions

Snowy Hydro 2.0 is a water-fuelled dream of cheap, clean electricity. But to make it happen, there are hurdles needing to be overcome.

www.abc.net.au

The gap​

One of the biggest dangers for Snowy Hydro 2.0 is that it will be too late to prevent a catastrophic shortfall in energy.

Ageing coal plants are shutting, but many of the closure dates rely on the machinery holding out — and the economics holding up.

Dr Dylan McConnell from the School of Photovoltaic and Renewable Energy Engineering (SPREE) at University of New South Wales says there is some good news.

"Pumped hydro projects like Snowy 2.0 are a form of energy storage that provides a useful source of dispatchable generation, useful for balancing the grid," he said.
The reason they provide balance is they can pump and fill their reservoirs when there's abundant energy supply and then provide generation later when supplies are low, such as when the sun goes down or if it's not windy.

But the bad news, he says, is that delays to the project could have a cascading impact on the amount of power in the system.

"The market operator doesn't see a delay to Snowy 2.0 having a material impact on the reliability outlook for New South Wales," Dr McConnell says.

"However, that assessment is also contingent on some significant transmission projects being delivered in a timely manner."

A gigawatt (GW) of energy is enough to power about 300,000 homes, according to the Climate Council. It's 1 billion watts.

Dr McConnell says around four gigawatts of coal-fired power is going to withdraw in the next three years as plants close.

You love flogging the dead horse don't you.

Four reasons why your power prices are sky high and rising | Climate Council

Everyone is talking about their high and rising energy bills. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is a major reason, but it’s not the only culprit. Here’s four things you need to know about what’s really going on with power prices in Australia.

www.climatecouncil.org.au

We know why our bills are higher, fortunately most of us can read.

Maybe take the advice of leading conservatives and don't use power you can't afford ?

 

[Kwality]

You love flogging the dead horse don't you.

Four reasons why your power prices are sky high and rising | Climate Council

Everyone is talking about their high and rising energy bills. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is a major reason, but it’s not the only culprit. Here’s four things you need to know about what’s really going on with power prices in Australia.

www.climatecouncil.org.au

We know why our bills are higher, fortunately most of us can read.

Maybe take the advice of leading conservatives and don't use power you can't afford ?

You offer a quote from the Climate Council:
A gigawatt (GW) of energy is enough to power about 300,000 homes, according to the Climate Council. It's 1 billion watts.

Dr McConnell says around four gigawatts of coal-fired power is going to withdraw in the next three years as plants close.

 

[Cap]

You offer a quote from the Climate Council:
A gigawatt (GW) of energy is enough to power about 300,000 homes, according to the Climate Council. It's 1 billion watts.

Dr McConnell says around four gigawatts of coal-fired power is going to withdraw in the next three years as plants close.

The article talks through the cost of your power bills, that dead horse you keep flogging for a yet to be determined reason outside pure misinformation

 

[Kwality]

The article talks through the cost of your power bills, that dead horse you keep flogging for a yet to be determined reason outside pure misinformation

People keep making claims that wind/solar is free. Its good to know you dont buy that simplistic throwaway line.

 

[Cap]

People keep making claims that wind/solar is free. Its good to know you dont buy that simplistic throwaway line.

Wind and solar are free.

But the electricity system is not.

You would be the only person I've ever met who is incapable of distinguishing that difference, unless you do and it's just another bit of misinformation you are peddling.

Which begs the question as to why.

 

[Power Raid]

Then start calling out the lies that litter the renewables are cheaper line as if it is just the sun & the wind are free, so your power bill .....

The 'nation-building' project with issues as big as its ambitions

Snowy Hydro 2.0 is a water-fuelled dream of cheap, clean electricity. But to make it happen, there are hurdles needing to be overcome.

www.abc.net.au

The gap​

One of the biggest dangers for Snowy Hydro 2.0 is that it will be too late to prevent a catastrophic shortfall in energy.

Ageing coal plants are shutting, but many of the closure dates rely on the machinery holding out — and the economics holding up.

Dr Dylan McConnell from the School of Photovoltaic and Renewable Energy Engineering (SPREE) at University of New South Wales says there is some good news.

"Pumped hydro projects like Snowy 2.0 are a form of energy storage that provides a useful source of dispatchable generation, useful for balancing the grid," he said.
The reason they provide balance is they can pump and fill their reservoirs when there's abundant energy supply and then provide generation later when supplies are low, such as when the sun goes down or if it's not windy.

But the bad news, he says, is that delays to the project could have a cascading impact on the amount of power in the system.

"The market operator doesn't see a delay to Snowy 2.0 having a material impact on the reliability outlook for New South Wales," Dr McConnell says.

"However, that assessment is also contingent on some significant transmission projects being delivered in a timely manner."

A gigawatt (GW) of energy is enough to power about 300,000 homes, according to the Climate Council. It's 1 billion watts.

Dr McConnell says around four gigawatts of coal-fired power is going to withdraw in the next three years as plants close.

it is interesting the owners of a certain hydro scheme and also a govt entity are looking to an energy solution currently not in Australia other than at Lucas Heights and soon the ADF

the reason is they believe there is no other solution available that actually works

 

[Kwality]

Wind and solar are free.

But the electricity system is not.

You would be the only person I've ever met who is incapable of distinguishing that difference, unless you do and it's just another bit of misinformation you are peddling.

Which begs the question as to why.

The rewiring of the grid is a relatively recent $billion requirement for the taxpayers purse. For example: Will PM Albo End The Climate Wars In Australia? - Solar Quotes Blog

The difference between you & I is I have always looked at my power bill to guide me.
Firming the grid is a recent addition to the discussion.

I just want honesty as to what these decisions will cost us on the east coast & an assurance the lights wont go out.

 

[Cap]

The rewiring of the grid is a relatively recent $billion requirement for the taxpayers purse. For example: Will PM Albo End The Climate Wars In Australia? - Solar Quotes Blog

The difference between you & I is I have always looked at my power bill to guide me.
Firming the grid is a recent addition to the discussion.

I just want honesty as to what these decisions will cost us on the east coast & an assurance the lights wont go out.

So you admit to being short sighted and incapable of nuance.

That's fine, but can you stop pretending your power bill isn't high because we are stuck relying on old outdated energy generation and a lack of investment over the same period in its delivery.

Thanks from everyone here, as per the last election. We are all sick of misinformation and bullshit people like you peddle.

 

[Kwality]

Wind and solar are free.

But the electricity system is not.

You would be the only person I've ever met who is incapable of distinguishing that difference, unless you do and it's just another bit of misinformation you are peddling.

Which begs the question as to why.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/labor-mp-dan-repacholi-digs-deep-to-shore-up-coal/news-story/30657561e7e7bac9b9b8e4bffb90d1dc

Labor MP Dan Repacholi has blasted those who “scream that coalmining is already in decline” and said there would be coalmines through to 2050 as Albanese government support for the coal and gas industries rises.
The former coalminer representing the NSW Hunter region told parliament there was no sign of a decline in the coal industry and its export market would continue “for years and years to come”.

So you admit to being short sighted and incapable of nuance.

That's fine, but can you stop pretending your power bill isn't high because we are stuck relying on old outdated energy generation and a lack of investment over the same period in its delivery.

Thanks from everyone here, as per the last election. We are all sick of misinformation and bullshit people like you peddle.

Duckn'dive all you like, the cost of power is on the power bill & its not $zero. In fact its increasing NOT getting cheaper.

 

[Cap]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/labor-mp-dan-repacholi-digs-deep-to-shore-up-coal/news-story/30657561e7e7bac9b9b8e4bffb90d1dc

Labor MP Dan Repacholi has blasted those who “scream that coalmining is already in decline” and said there would be coalmines through to 2050 as Albanese government support for the coal and gas industries rises.
The former coalminer representing the NSW Hunter region told parliament there was no sign of a decline in the coal industry and its export market would continue “for years and years to come”.



Duckn'dive all you like, the cost of power is on the power bill & its not $zero. In fact its increasing NOT getting cheaper.

Yes quote the coal miners.

I don't need to duck and dive, your point continues to lack an understanding of how power prices work and you only continue to parrot the nonsense because you don't have the intestinal fortitude to acknowledge you are wrong.

Or you are actually unable to learn from your mistakes, which is probably more likely given you post articles about things that have noting to do with what we were talking about.

 

[Kwality]

Yes quote the coal miners.

I don't need to duck and dive, your point continues to lack an understanding of how power prices work and you only continue to parrot the nonsense because you don't have the intestinal fortitude to acknowledge you are wrong.

Or you are actually unable to learn from your mistakes, which is probably more likely given you post articles about things that have noting to do with what we were talking about.

The coal miners you say, its the local MP.
Yes, the coal lobby within Government is relevant in this thread.
Take your blinkers off & push your cap back ......

 

[Cap]

The coal miners you say, its the local MP.
Yes, the coal lobby within Government is relevant in this thread.
Take your blinkers off & push your cap back ......

My blinkers off what, actually understanding how power prices work?

Look at the end of the day, people like you are becoming less and less common, like coal power stations and that is good, because I think what we've seen is ignorance isn't bliss, it's destructive.

 

[Kwality]

My blinkers off what, actually understanding how power prices work?

Look at the end of the day, people like you are becoming less and less common, like coal power stations and that is good, because I think what we've seen is ignorance isn't bliss, it's destructive.

Keeping the lights not an issue .
Without coal/gas, in Australia.

 

[Cap]

Keeping the lights not an issue .
Without coal/gas, in Australia.

It's only an issue in your head.

But you keep parroting that utterly stupid line, maybe add in when the sun doesn't shine or the wind doesn't blow. That's a hit with the ignorant

 

[Donakebab]

The coal miners you say, its the local MP.
Yes, the coal lobby within Government is relevant in this thread.
Take your blinkers off & push your cap back ......

Local MP, who is a former coal miner.

 

[Kwality]

It's only an issue in your head.

But you keep parroting that utterly stupid line, maybe add in when the sun doesn't shine or the wind doesn't blow. That's a hit with the ignorant

So who do you prey (sic) to that batteries can do the job Or are will we simply export our jobs as we plan to do with live exports. As for those Indians, are they just selfish bastards ?

'Demand for coal in India has been a key part of the hard-fought development of the Galilee Basin in Queensland. Energy security remains one of the biggest areas of concern for India, which has a different perspective on climate change action than developed countries. India’s view is that it has not been responsible for past greenhouse gas emissions and must be allowed to use fossil fuels to assist its industrial transformation and bring hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. India will invest heavily in renewable energy but still has a long way to go with coal. Indian demand for coal is forecast to grow by 7 per cent across its power stations by 2025.'

'.... India needs to see higher levels of foreign investment as well as to have access to the energy and strategic minerals needed to keep pulling hundreds of millions of its people out of poverty as the country moves up the development ladder. India sees Australia as a major supplier of energy and the critical minerals essential to produce mobile phones, electric cars and solar panels.'

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/editorials/modi-chariot-ride-gives-pm-a-taste-of-indian-power/news-story/cfcd8e6cf15b1fb117e678d4b14a4e71

 

[Kwality]

My blinkers off what, actually understanding how power prices work?

Look at the end of the day, people like you are becoming less and less common, like coal power stations and that is good, because I think what we've seen is ignorance isn't bliss, it's destructive.

Supply & demand ?

 

[Cap]

So who do you prey (sic) to that batteries can do the job Or are will we simply export our jobs as we plan to do with live exports. As for those Indians, are they just selfish bastards ?

'Demand for coal in India has been a key part of the hard-fought development of the Galilee Basin in Queensland. Energy security remains one of the biggest areas of concern for India, which has a different perspective on climate change action than developed countries. India’s view is that it has not been responsible for past greenhouse gas emissions and must be allowed to use fossil fuels to assist its industrial transformation and bring hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. India will invest heavily in renewable energy but still has a long way to go with coal. Indian demand for coal is forecast to grow by 7 per cent across its power stations by 2025.'

'.... India needs to see higher levels of foreign investment as well as to have access to the energy and strategic minerals needed to keep pulling hundreds of millions of its people out of poverty as the country moves up the development ladder. India sees Australia as a major supplier of energy and the critical minerals essential to produce mobile phones, electric cars and solar panels.'

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/editorials/modi-chariot-ride-gives-pm-a-taste-of-indian-power/news-story/cfcd8e6cf15b1fb117e678d4b14a4e71

You might find India isn't Australia and has different challenges.

We can help by investing in R & D into batteries and renewables which helps India transition and still pull people out of poverty. That's not just the domain of coal.

But considering these things seems well outside your capabilities

 

[Cap]

Supply & demand ?

 

[kranky al]

How much of a subsidy does renewable energy receive? 3-5 billion per year nadclimbing. Wind & solar has no power storage mechanism and assuming all of the targets were met for renewable energy we would release millions of tons of Co2 from all the mining we would have to do to provide the materials for China to build wind farms and solar panels and send them back to us. We would end up polluting the earth with solar panels and wind towers as their life cycles are 15-20 years and most of them not recyclable.

Australia has 24 coal fired power stations, which is less than 2% of the world's total. We have enough coal to keep us going for a further 300 years. But instead we want to listen to the Europeans who talk a lot but do little in actually shutting down polluting industries, like their North Sea Gas & Oil fields. We will close it etc etc, but they never will. Why? $$$$$$. Why do you think Scotland wants to break away from the UK? That tells me they have no short term plan of shutting down oil & gas production.

Co2 capture and storage are very viable but the left refuses to address it.

They certainly are all right wing talking points.

 

[Cap]

They certainly are all right wing talking points.

It's amazing how they just accept things without any critical thought.

You get why Right Wing Dictators are so common

 

[kranky al]

How much of a subsidy does renewable energy receive? 3-5 billion per year nadclimbing.

Five better bets: what the $11.6 billion of Australians’ money wasted on fossil fuel subsidies could buy us | Climate Council

Australian state and federal governments subsidised fossil fuels to the tune of a staggering $11.6 billion in 2021/22.

www.climatecouncil.org.au

Wind & solar has no power storage mechanism and assuming all of the targets were met for renewable energy we would release millions of tons of Co2 from all the mining we would have to do to provide the materials for China to build wind farms and solar panels and send them back to us. We would end up polluting the earth with solar panels and wind towers as their life cycles are 15-20 years and most of them not recyclable.

Even mining is moving to renewables.

Almost everything about renewables is recyclable. How much of burnt fossil fuels can be recycled?

Australia has 24 coal fired power stations, which is less than 2% of the world's total. We have enough coal to keep us going for a further 300 years. But instead we want to listen to the Europeans who talk a lot but do little in actually shutting down polluting industries, like their North Sea Gas & Oil fields. We will close it etc etc, but they never will. Why? $$$$$$. Why do you think Scotland wants to break away from the UK? That tells me they have no short term plan of shutting down oil & gas production.

Co2 capture and storage are very viable but the left refuses to address it.

Show me a scale working and economically viable carbon capture outfit?

 

[Cap]

Five better bets: what the $11.6 billion of Australians’ money wasted on fossil fuel subsidies could buy us | Climate Council

Australian state and federal governments subsidised fossil fuels to the tune of a staggering $11.6 billion in 2021/22.

www.climatecouncil.org.au

Even mining is moving to renewables.

Almost everything about renewables is recyclable. How much of burnt fossil fuels can be recycled?

Show me a scale working and economically viable carbon capture outfit?

I love how it's apparently the 'lefts' fault that no one can make something economically viable

 

[kranky al]

I love how it's apparently the 'lefts' fault that no one can make something economically viable

The *hard Left.

 

[Kwality]

Five better bets: what the $11.6 billion of Australians’ money wasted on fossil fuel subsidies could buy us | Climate Council

Australian state and federal governments subsidised fossil fuels to the tune of a staggering $11.6 billion in 2021/22.

www.climatecouncil.org.au

Even mining is moving to renewables.

Almost everything about renewables is recyclable. How much of burnt fossil fuels can be recycled?

Show me a scale working and economically viable carbon capture outfit?

A viable carbon capture outfit is very bit as common as renewables 24/7 power (+/- LNG depending what version of green suits your fancy).

I agree mining is moving to renewables & long may it continue: (Renewable Energy - Sandfire )