Keith Pitt the lobby group for coal within government.

[Kwality]

Any argument that 'this other country is still building coal mines' is a distraction and not relevant to Australia's position.
We export massive amounts of coal as well.
We are the worst in the world next to Saudia Arabia .Any argument about other countries ,who all have less per capita emissions than us, is total bs and sounds like a bs Matt Canavan view.

You may mean power stations not mines.
More coal fired power stations being built, means coal mines arent going anywhere for 30 odd years.

As China has demonstrated to Australia, it can do without Aus coal, not coal though, they just get it somewhere else as we do also. Net change in emissions, zip !

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

You may mean power stations not mines.
More coal fired power stations being built, means coal mines arent going anywhere for 30 odd years.

As China has demonstrated to Australia, it can do without Aus coal, not coal though, they just get it somewhere else as we do also. Net change in emissions, zip !

You may mean power stations not mines.
More coal fired power stations being built, means coal mines arent going anywhere for 30 odd years.

As China has demonstrated to Australia, it can do without Aus coal, not coal though, they just get it somewhere else as we do also. Net change in emissions, zip !

They'll be phased out well before then

 

[Kwality]

They'll be phased out well before then

Why are these people choosing coal power? Then you say they will close them down before they live out their useful life.

How stupid do you suggest these countries are versus how smart we are?

They are choosing a more expensive option than renewables & on top of that you seem to believe they will scrap the stuff currently being built with a 30 year life.

You do think these people cant do anything right.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Why are these people choosing coal power? Then you say they will close them down before they live out their useful life.

How stupid do you suggest these countries are versus how smart we are?

They are choosing a more expensive option than renewables & on top of that you seem to believe they will scrap the stuff currently being built with a 30 year life.

You do think these people cant do anything right.

I don't know what your talking about but you sound like Malcom Roberts.
You have no right to comment anyway as you are climate denier and just parrot what the bastard coal lobby says.
Sit this one out and let the people who understand basic science answer.

 

[Kwality]

I don't know what your talking about but you sound like Malcom Roberts.
You have no right to comment anyway as you are climate denier and just parrot what the bastard coal lobby says.
Sit this one out and let the people who understand basic science answer.

This not science, its as plain on the nose of your face. Try supply & demand, supply coal where there is a demand for higher living standards.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

This not science, its as plain on the nose of your face. Try supply & demand, supply coal where there is a demand for higher living standards.

You love coal and believe climate change is exaggerated though?

 

[Kwality]

You love coal and believe climate change is exaggerated though?

Except I dont think climate change is exaggerated. Its the interpretations that seem to require a religious zeal to paper over the cracks e.g Tim Flannery.

I have solar on my roof just as my folks did in the 70s, so perhaps i do understand ....

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Except I dont think climate change is exaggerated. Its the interpretations that seem to require a religious zeal to paper over the cracks e.g Tim Flannery.

I have solar on my roof just as my folks did in the 70s, so perhaps i do understand ....

No you don't get it at all.
Also you don't accept that Australia is an international pariah with the second worst per capita emissions in the world and that we export 3 x the amount of fossil fuels that the whole UK uses.
You also constantly avoid the question by referring to other countries who have superior records to us anyway.
You just don't get it, we are in a climate emergency according to climate scientists.You have an excuse for everything and use false coal lobby propaganda. That's why your opinion is worthless.

 

[Kwality]

No you don't get it at all.
Also you don't accept that Australia is an international pariah with the second worst per capita emissions in the world and that we export 3 x the amount of fossil fuels that the whole UK uses.
You also constantly avoid the question by referring to other countries who have superior records to us anyway.
You just don't get it, we are in a climate emergency according to climate scientists.You have an excuse for everything and use false coal lobby propaganda. That's why your opinion is worthless.

Not sure I've ever used superior, but you can try & give examples of what you claim I believe. You know, put up or shut up, easy peasy ....

I cant fathom why you are dismissive of the thought process of Asian countries wanting to provide 24/7 power for the people. Sitting here with the heating on while its dark outside ..

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Not sure I've ever used superior, but you can try & give examples of what you claim I believe. You know, put up or shut up, easy peasy ....

I cant fathom why you are dismissive of the thought process of Asian countries wanting to provide 24/7 power for the people. Sitting here with the heating on while its dark outside ..

There you go again talking about other countries to distract from our appalling record.

 

[Kwality]

There you go again talking about other countries to distract from our appalling record.

The climate is worldwide & guess who is squiggly pop of that world, Australia. If we stopped exporting coal the worldwide emissions would go up as less efficent coal is dug out of the ground elsewhere.

Meantime we've shot a toe off without exports to balance the value of the dollar & thrown people out of work. You'll be happy because you think it will address that appalling record.

We'll be right because we are smarter than the people with the power & the jobs.

 

[Original Moody Blue]

Are you across the increasjng capacity of coal fired power generation in Asia under construction with a 30 year productive life. Thats post the 2050 virtue signalling of the Europeans.

ps: why do these countries build coal powered stations when Australia knows renewables are cheaper. We buy Chinese solar panels & wind power blades SO something does not compute.

Why isn't the world putting immediate trade bans on China? Much easier to kick the sh*t out of Australia. India? Vietnam?

China approved the construction of a further 36.9 GW of coal-fired capacity last year, three times more than a year earlier, bringing the total under construction to 88.1 GW. It now has 247 GW of coal power under development, enough to supply the whole of Germany.'
Feb 2021 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-coal-idUSKBN2A308U

I'm not committed to coal personally, but some of the rhetoric around this discussion is patently false.

Then let's cease exporting Iron ore. The Co2 that releases has been estimated to 551 tonnes. Whilst we are it we need to also stop mining for copper, aluminium, gold, silver, bauxite, rare earth minerals, diamonds, uranium, lead and ofcourse lithium.

Now to our agriculture. We need to stop producing meat and immediately exterminate all of our cattle, sheep and any other creature that burps or farts.

We are currently in the middle of World Cup soccer play offs. We have no issue transporting thousands of players and officials across the globe in carbon producing planes. That needs to end now. We don't need a World cup or any sports that leave a foot print.

 

[Kwality]

There you go again talking about other countries to distract from our appalling record.

The UK fired up an old coal power plant on Monday to meet its electricity needs.
Warm, still, autumn weather has meant wind farms have not generated as much power as normal, while soaring prices have made it too costly to rely on gas.
As a result, National Grid ESO - which is responsible for balancing the UK's electricity supply - confirmed coal was providing 3% of national power.
It said it asked EDF to fire up West Burton A, which had been on standby.

UK fires up coal power plant as gas prices soar

An old coal plant has had to be brought back online after a spike in the price of natural gas.

www.bbc.com

 

[Kwality]

& there is China in this real world, not the make believe one:

China orders top energy firms to secure supplies at all cost

Volatility in the energy markets is poised to intensify on the order from the central government, analyst says.

www.mining.com

China’s central government officials ordered the country’s top state-owned energy companies — from coal to electricity and oil — to secure supplies for this winter at all costs, according to people familiar with the matter.

The emergency meeting underscores the critical situation in China. A severe energy crisis has gripped the country, and several regions have had to curtail power to the industrial sector, while some residential areas have even faced sudden blackouts. China’s power crunch is unleashing turmoil in the global commodities markets, fueling rallies in everything from fertilizer to silicon.

Calls to the state council went unanswered outside business hours.

Volatility in the energy markets is poised to intensify on the order from the central government, said Bjarne Schieldrop, chief commodities analyst at SEB.

China’s statement “to me implies that we are in no way on a verge of a cool-off. Rather it looks like it is going get even more crazy,” he said. “They will bid whatever it takes to win a bidding war for a cargo of coal” or liquefied natural gas.

 

[Kwality]

You realise that's probably exactly what they want?

Also you are aware the EU is telling the likes of China and India that unless they want the tax penalties, they need to switch to more environmentally friendly energy alternatives? The age of coal increasing forever and a day is over.

The world is having trouble dismissing coal from its future, with both China & the EU bidding up energy prices long before the Northern winter sets in.
Its easy to make calls on policy & significantly more difficult to see these decisions through.

'The price of thermal coal has now jumped more than 270 per cent since its 12-month low of $US54.70 last October, with supply currently failing to meet resurgent electricity generation demand caused by massive economic stimulus around the globe.'

'Coking coal, which has underpinned booming global steel production, has also hit record highs. Its last price of $US388.50 represents a rise of more than a 180 per cent on its yearly low, while oil is also at three-year highs, above $US80 a barrel.'

'Spot LNG prices in Asia have jumped to $US34 per million British thermal units from under $US2 mbtu in June 2020 amid a rush to grab supplies, ...'
“Importers in north Asia, particularly China, are keen not to repeat their experience from last winter, where colder than usual temperatures and a scarcity of LNG cargoes resulted in LNG spot prices spiking higher,”
European gas prices have also surged as buyers on the continent compete with Asian nations for cargoes of the fuel and the resulting tariff surge has made coal a more affordable alternative for many.

“The surge in demand for coal has stemmed from comparatively larger increases in natural gas prices,” Braemar noted.
The Australian government’s forecaster predicts thermal and metallurgical coal exports will contribute $57bn to export earnings in the 2022 financial year, up 46 per cent.'

'Electricity-generating thermal coal is set to have an export value of $24bn in the 2022 financial year before edging off slightly to $19bn, with Chinese demand keeping global seaborne prices high to the benefit of Australian coal producers locked out of the Chinese market.'

'The report also says in the longer term, thermal coal prices could be sustained if net zero emissions commitments from countries and corporations result in the closure of mines ahead of coal-fired power stations.'

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

 

[Elroo]

The government should provide up to $250 billion in taxpayers money via a loan facility to mining companies!

Miners need lender of last resort: Nats’ net zero demand

The federal government should become a financier for the resources sector via the creation of a $250 billion loan facility, Resources Minister Keith Pitt says.

www.afr.com

The federal government should become a financier of last resort for the mining sector via the creation of a $250 billion loan facility, if it wanted the Nationals’ support for net zero emissions by 2050, Resources Minister and senior Nationals MP Keith Pitt says.

In the most significant flexing of muscle so far by the junior Coalition partner, Mr Pitt also said the agriculture and resources sector should be excluded from any sacrifice in terms of reaching net zero.

Something something Socialism, something something Gough Whitlam.

 

[Gough]

The party that claims economic mastery wants to invest in something that's the modern day equivalent of buying a Betamax in 1986.

 

[Kram]

Somehow I don't think in 86' loads of people were screaming for Betamax tapes to to buy and consume paying the highest prices for the in many years.

Sure it will be defunct as a industry one day but a very dumb analogy.

 

[Kwality]

The party that claims economic mastery wants to invest in something that's the modern day equivalent of buying a Betamax in 1986.

IF that were to be true, coal is kicking up a storm on the way out .....

https://reneweconomy.com.au/china-has-stuffed-up-its-economy-and-now-the-world-will-pay-the-price/

'On the one hand, from a carbon emissions perspective, it’s wonderful that the 40% expansion in coal electricity and steel has only led to a 9% increase in coal consumption.
On the other hand, the ability to take from other sectors to feed the thermal electricity industry has clear limits, and I’d argue it’s showing up in 2021.'

Then there is the need for the UK to resort to coal over recent weeks.

 

[Kwality]

China calls for huge boost in coal output to fight power crunch

Seventy-two mines in Inner Mongolia are given approval to boost production as China grapples with a major shortage.

www.abc.net.au

Chinese officials have ordered more than 70 mines in Inner Mongolia to ramp up coal production by nearly 100 million tonnes as the country battles its worst power crunch and coal shortage in years.

Key points:

• Seventy-two Inner Mongolia mines have been notified they can operate at higher capacities immediately, provided they remain safe
• The region accounts for more than a quarter of China's total coal production
• Coal inventories at major Chinese ports were at 52.34 million tonnes in late September, down 18 per cent from the same period last year

 

[Kwality]

Will you shut up China and look in your own backyard hypocrite.

You'd be wise to understand why there is a market for our thermal coal, the mongrels want to keep warm, yet you dont give a continental, its ALL ABOUT YOU.

Its not long before the price of gas on the east coast feels the reality of the current energy crisis this Northern winter.

 

[Kwality]

Australia are international coal bastards who are wasting tax payers money propping up coal in a climate emergency and ignoring cheaper renewable energy.
Stop coming up with excuses for that.

World’s Coal Consumption Set to Breach New Record This Year

World coal consumption is set to rise to the highest level ever this year despite ambitious global goals aimed at weaning nations off burning the dirty fossil fuel.

www.bloomberg.com

Who are these bastards wanting to stay warm, wanting a better life for their kids ?

Coal usage looks likely to increase by 1.2% in 2022, surpassing 8 billion tons in a single year for the first time, according to an International Energy Agency report published Friday. It also said consumption will likely remain at that level until 2025, as declines in advanced economies are offset by demand in emerging Asian markets, such as China and India.

 

[sherb]

World’s Coal Consumption Set to Breach New Record This Year

World coal consumption is set to rise to the highest level ever this year despite ambitious global goals aimed at weaning nations off burning the dirty fossil fuel.

www.bloomberg.com

Who are these bastards wanting to stay warm, wanting a better life for their kids ?

Coal usage looks likely to increase by 1.2% in 2022, surpassing 8 billion tons in a single year for the first time, according to an International Energy Agency report published Friday. It also said consumption will likely remain at that level until 2025, as declines in advanced economies are offset by demand in emerging Asian markets, such as China and India.

Anyone who wants a better life for their kids would be supporting the move away from fossil fuels to renewables.

 

[Power Raid]

The party that claims economic mastery wants to invest in something that's the modern day equivalent of buying a Betamax in 1986.

wind the clock forward and this hasn't aged well

not only is gas power important but we are now seeing the states demand the feds throw hundreds of millions at coal. imagine having more coal in potential supply, than local demand, but creating policy that has resulted in inflated prices.........so much so it is now being subsidised.


but more importantly.....why didn't those hundreds of millions get thrown at a solar farm to create cheap reliable power instead?

 

[Kwality]

Anyone who wants a better life for their kids would be supporting the move away from fossil fuels to renewables.

Then start calling out the lies that litter the renewables are cheaper line as if it is just the sun & the wind are free, so your power bill .....

The 'nation-building' project with issues as big as its ambitions

Snowy Hydro 2.0 is a water-fuelled dream of cheap, clean electricity. But to make it happen, there are hurdles needing to be overcome.

www.abc.net.au

The gap​

One of the biggest dangers for Snowy Hydro 2.0 is that it will be too late to prevent a catastrophic shortfall in energy.

Ageing coal plants are shutting, but many of the closure dates rely on the machinery holding out — and the economics holding up.

Dr Dylan McConnell from the School of Photovoltaic and Renewable Energy Engineering (SPREE) at University of New South Wales says there is some good news.

"Pumped hydro projects like Snowy 2.0 are a form of energy storage that provides a useful source of dispatchable generation, useful for balancing the grid," he said.
The reason they provide balance is they can pump and fill their reservoirs when there's abundant energy supply and then provide generation later when supplies are low, such as when the sun goes down or if it's not windy.

But the bad news, he says, is that delays to the project could have a cascading impact on the amount of power in the system.

"The market operator doesn't see a delay to Snowy 2.0 having a material impact on the reliability outlook for New South Wales," Dr McConnell says.

"However, that assessment is also contingent on some significant transmission projects being delivered in a timely manner."

A gigawatt (GW) of energy is enough to power about 300,000 homes, according to the Climate Council. It's 1 billion watts.

Dr McConnell says around four gigawatts of coal-fired power is going to withdraw in the next three years as plants close.