The great Micheal Tuck played 50 reserves games for Hawthorn before going on to play 426 senior games, most finals played in history, (39) most Grand Finals,(11) .and most Premierships (7) Amazing career
Player Watch Liam McMahon (Delisted 2022)
- Thread starter TradeDraft
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Hawthorn made all its players serve an apprenticeship in the reserves before giving them AFL games. Where other teams at least gave players a taste of senior footy in their first year or two, Hawthorn was miserly with their AFL appearances, but they were at the time a powerhouse in the AFL. Making players wait to play senior footy was a strategy that seemed very effective for them.
I think the best approach is to take each player on a case by case basis
If player mentally ready, good enough, there is a position to fill, then pick him. If not, leave him in the VFL til ready.
Age or experience irrelevant. How many arguing to leave him to develop in the VFL will scream for Nick to play round 1 next year.
If player mentally ready, good enough, there is a position to fill, then pick him. If not, leave him in the VFL til ready.
Age or experience irrelevant. How many arguing to leave him to develop in the VFL will scream for Nick to play round 1 next year.
Last edited:
Scodog10
Brownlow Medallist
Regardless of anyone’s take on McMahon all of us will be asking for a 19 yo top 3 pick that could have been in the frame to play round 1 this year to be playing round 1 next year. That’s not to mention that Daicos is already more advanced than McMahon.
sr36
Hall of Famer
Hogan didn't play u18 in his last year as he was taken as one of the underagers. That year, he played some excellent footy in the VFL for Melbourne. Daniher was an underage gun. Both were outstanding as youngsters when they first played in the AFL. I reckon they were the two most talented KPF to hit the AFL in the last 12 years.
Last edited:
It's risk v reward.
There are lots of talented talls who got thrown to the wolves too early and got completely outmuscled and smashed in every contest then ended up losing their confidence and losing their belief that they will make it at AFL level and it ends up really hurting their career.
It does depend on the player, guys who rely on outmuscling their opponents but are currently quite skinny should be groomed in the 2nds until they have 1 or 2 preseasons in the gym, others who can use speed and leap like the King brothers or Buddy can impact straight away. There's also the mental side, some guys crave a challenge while others will panic if they don't feel prepared.
Let him develop in the VFL we have options that at this stage are ahead of him Cox, Cameron, Mihocek, Kelly and maybe Moore. If he knocks door down play him otherwise let him settle maybe give him some games end of year to give him a taste although I dont think we should play him in our last game of the year as you need bigger bodies for grand finals.
Scodog10
Brownlow Medallist
I don’t think it’s fair to bring Ben King into a discussion on debut seasons of 18yo’s playing consistently good footy. If anything I think Ben fits more with him receiving games early because his numbers were consistently average with a couple of standouts (10 of his 17 goals came in only 3 of his 14 matches). It’s basically what we still get from Cox. If he were at a proper AFL club he would have played a lot less senior footy in year 1.
I don’t think we’ve seen anywhere near enough of Kelly to make that call, I would 100% be playing McMahon forward ahead of our AA CHB and if he hits the scoreboard over the next fortnight he’ll quickly move past Cameron who is a ruckman.
Quicky
Brownlow Medallist
- May 27, 2008
- 25,776
- 31,855
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Other Teams
- Socceroos, Melbourne Victory
I think there are lessons to be learned from how Melbourne chose to develop Watts early in his career. I'd be letting McMahon have a couple of preseasons to develop physically and to hone his craft in the VFL before considering him. I think that's the most likely route for McMahon.
It is a myth.
Did Jack Watts never reach expectations cause he was smashed in his first contest against the Pies? No, he was just overrated when drafted and lacked a real competitive drive.
Did Johnathon Brown lose confidence and never make it after not getting a touch on debut?
Did Graham Gooch never recover from getting a pair on debut?
It is a ruthless sport. If these kids who debuted early never made it I would suggest it has more to do with their overall talent and resilience, not when they debuted. They wouldnt have made it regardless of when they debuted.
Who are these lots anyone? Names?
But if you hold a player back you end up stifling them
Watts was just not as good as people thought when drafted and weighed down by expectation. He also lacked real aggression. Watts would have been Watts whenever he debuted.
Apex36
Hall of Famer
- Mar 26, 2014
- 39,062
- 81,571
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
The good news with McMahon is that from reports he’s a smart player who knows where to lead and isn’t reliant on out muscling his opponent. While he’s a few years off being a number 1 target, he’s exactly the type of tall we’ve been screaming out for, and the type who could make an effective 2nd/3rd tall while developing his frame.
Im happy to see him play VFL until the club feels he’s ready, but I don’t think some senior exposure this year will hurt him given the way he plays.
Quicky
Brownlow Medallist
- May 27, 2008
- 25,776
- 31,855
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Other Teams
- Socceroos, Melbourne Victory
You're not. Not this early on in a career.
Apex36
Hall of Famer
- Mar 26, 2014
- 39,062
- 81,571
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
I think the problem with Watts was that he was such a high profile draftee that teams targeted him, and Melbourne were relying on him as their messiah, a nasty mix for a new draftee. McMahon won’t have any of that on his shoulders as a draftee taken in the 30’s. If the club deems him ready then we should be comfortable with that imo. I’m tipping a mid year debut with a handful of games.
Quicky
Brownlow Medallist
- May 27, 2008
- 25,776
- 31,855
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Other Teams
- Socceroos, Melbourne Victory
I think Melbourne failed to develop him appropriately early on and it seriously affected any chance he had of making it at AFL level.
Perhaps, but was that on or off the field?
Did when he debuted have any really impact? I doubt it. I would suggest it was a range of factors other than when he first ran on to the park in anger.
You are if they are ready saying you are going to play twos for your first few years is ridiculous. Take it on a week by week basis and when the club feels he is ready play him
The kings were regularly kicking bags of 9 to 11 goals.
Ben was doing it at both ends.
Yes the other 2 were highly talented but who was more id back kings form in for producing more.
They did it once
Scodog10
Brownlow Medallist
You said regularly though which is incorrect. It was also school footy. It’s very hard to find records, but I would be certain Hogan kicked a bag of at least 10 if he ever played at that level ditto Daniher. For context Grien Myers kicked double the goals at NAB league level of both Kings combined.*
*I’m all in on the King’s. I’m just one that’s not convinced the output matches the hype yet.
sr36
Hall of Famer
In his under 18 year, Jesse Hogan was kicking bags of 5 and 6 for Casey in the VFL, against men without rules to make KPF look good. The Kings were and are great prospects, but as a junior Hogan was ready made. His career is such a shame.
jackcass
Cancelled
10k Posts
Magpie Service Medal
Collingwood - Josh Daicos Player Sponsor 2021
Collingwood - Tyler Brown Player Sponsor 2020
Collingwood Magpies AFLW - Sarah Rowe Player Sponsor 2019
Happy for you to disagree but craft and skills are at a minimum equally important. Just as with strength, they to take time.
