List changes 2006

[Redline]

Torney will NOT retire and neither should he. He will be back to his best next year

Reitrement hasn't even entered his mind.

He won't retire but he needs to get his body right, we can't afford to carry 'average' veterans given what else we have on our list. He needs to get himself on the park on a more regular basis.

Personally while he was good in the finals I would be having a serious talk to him. We have to get tough.

 

[KUNG FU]

He won't retire but he needs to get his body right, we can't afford to carry 'average' veterans given what else we have on our list. He needs to get himself on the park on a more regular basis.

Personally while he was good in the finals I would be having a serious talk to him. We have to get tough.

He didn't play a bad game all year! You can't delist him because of injuries. Thats like delisting Hudson cos he was injured all year. When he's healthy, he will contribute a lot to the club and there's not much argument that he will be out as much next year. He can run, his disposal is goood, excellent defensive pressure and he can mark in a contest. What more do you want?

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I think you are being overly critical on top of back to back prelim appearances. Younger players have gained invaluable experience. A clean injury/illness run (e.g. as Sydney have had) through the finals series probably would have resulted in a different outcome.

Say 2 to 3 changes maximum required to the list.

I agree but the problem is the 2-3 players we need are key position players. It's not as though we are two half bank flankers and a wingman away from premiership success. We serious lack one quality, 1st tier foward and another 2 top tier CONCISTENT midfielders.

Don't get me wrong Craigy and co. have done a fantastic job over the past 2 years reviving a list which was basically at rock bottom at the end of 2004. However, our time is passing quickly.

I hope i'm wrong. Most of us were proven wrong a the end of 2004, let's hope it happens again.

 

[jen_32]

Roo has an injury that he will never fully recover from

Are you referring to the Parvo illness or the injury that disrupted his pre-season limiting much of his role this year to the forward line?

He's only 31 and surely still has another couple of great years in him albeit most likely in the forward line - just his presence out on the ground is worth something.

 

[Malibu#27]

Don't get me wrong Craigy and co. have done a fantastic job over the past 2 years reviving a list which was basically at rock bottom at the end of 2004. However, our time is passing quickly.

I hope i'm wrong. Most of us were proven wrong a the end of 2004, let's hope it happens again.

I've been thinking about this for a while now ... has the list been revived since 2004 or was 2004 an abhoration (ie did a few thing go wrong along the way and the wheels fell off)....

Your record from 2001 is relativly steady improvement (with the exception of 2004):

2001 - 12 wins ....... 8th
2002 - 15 wins ....... 3rd
2003 - 13 wins ....... 6th
2004 - 8 wins ....... 12th
2005 - 17 wins ........ 1st
2006 - 16 wins ........ 2nd

Take 2004 out and its a reasonable consistant form increase. Is the crows recent two years just the continuation of list redevelopment from about 2001
or do you think something more significant happened at the end of 2004 ?

 

[Redline]

He didn't play a bad game all year! You can't delist him because of injuries. Thats like delisting Hudson cos he was injured all year. When he's healthy, he will contribute a lot to the club and there's not much argument that he will be out as much next year. He can run, his disposal is goood, excellent defensive pressure and he can mark in a contest. What more do you want?

Thats the kind of attitude we can't afford to have with our aging list. I agree Torney played some good games but has missed too many games through injuires over the last two years. We need to start to clean out our 30 + year olds starting with Clarke and Hart and I think Tonrey and Bigglands are next on the list at the end of next season. Or would you rather Edwards, Roo, Bassett ect? It needs a planned approach, the question is can Craigy and JR be hard enough in there decision making and player meetings.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Thats the kind of attitude we can't afford to have with our aging list. I agree Torney played some good games but has missed too many games through injuires over the last two years. We need to start to clean out our 30 + year olds starting with Clarke and Hart and I think Tonrey and Bigglands are next on the list at the end of next season. Or would you rather Edwards, Roo, Bassett ect? It needs a planned approach, the question is can Craigy and JR be hard enough in there decision making and player meetings.

Except that Biglands has already signed a 2 year deal so yout theory is blown right out of the water.

 

[Redline]

Why?? You can still trade and even delist if need be you just have to include it in your salary cap I think. Welsh, Torney and Bigglands are all servicable but you can only afford to have so many on your list 30 + and in my mind Bassett, Roo, Macca and Edwards get the nod ahead of them.

Anyone over 30 needs to be playing great football week in week out like the second group of players I have listed or they become a liability, harsh but reality. Otherwise they just take up the space of a developing player.

I think you are misisng the point, I am not calling for mass sackings just that there needs to be a planned approach to the pending problem of retirements in the next couple of years.

 

[J.Gallagher #1]

RETIRE: Matthew Clarke, Ben Hart

DELIST(Unless we can get a trade for them): Hayden Skipworth, Chad Gibson, Luke Jericho, John Hinge, Adrian Bonnadio, Tom Redden, Brad Sugars, Sam Elliott.

TRADES: Ian Perrie for Shannon Hurn(may have to throw in something not much though id say), John Meesen for Travis Varcoe(straight up fair trade and Geelong need a young ruckman), Ken Mcgregor and Richard Douglas for Pick #1(its hard to give up Dogulas after what he has achieved this year but i think Gibbs will be alot better than what Douglas will be and Mcgregor would definently help out the Carlton backline)

BEST TEAM:

B: Nathan Basset -- Ben Rutten -- Tyson Edwards
HB: Graham Johncock -- Scott Stevens -- Andrew Mcleod
C: Marty Mattner -- Robert Shirley -- Michael Doughty
HF: Brent Reilly -- Nathan Bock -- Brett Burton
F: Matthew Bode -- Scott Welsh -- Mark Ricciuto
R: Rhett Biglands -- Simon Goodwin -- Bryce Gibbs
I: Ben Hudson -- Scott Thompson -- Nathan Van Berlo -- Jason Torney
E: Chris Knights -- Ivan Maric -- Jason Porplyzia

Players id look at drafting if still around at our picks: Bryce Gibbs, Tom Hurley(i think its Tom anyways the one at Sturt), Justin Westhoff, Leigh Westhoff and Adrian Wilson.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Why?? You can still trade and even delist if need be you just have to include it in your salary cap I think. Welsh, Torney and Bigglands are all servicable but you can only afford to have so many on your list 30 + and in my mind Bassett, Roo, Macca and Edwards get the nod ahead of them.

Anyone over 30 needs to be playing great football week in week out like the second group of players I have listed or they become a liability, harsh but reality. Otherwise they just take up the space of a developing player.

I think you are misisng the point, I am not calling for mass sackings just that there needs to be a planned approach to the pending problem of retirements in the next couple of years.

Yeah and AFC are such a rabble that they would re-sing a player for 2 years only to delist him and waste the money just for the sake of it

And do you honestly think that one of the best run clubs in the AFL such as AFC wouldn't have a planned approach on this very issue?! I mean seriously, the people running the club and the coach himself are highly professional and they are the ones best placed to make a decision.

 

[Wilburwild]

I dont understand why everyone wants to get rid of Massie, Skippy, Perrie etc. sure, if we have a list at full strength they may not get a game evry week, but if you get rid of all these guys and bring in a whole bunch of 18 year olds, the depth is gone, and as soon as the ijuries hit, youre left with a group of kids to run around on the park. i can see the losses flowing fast and hard. and i dont know if anyone has thought of this, but the guys you bring in to replace skippy perrie an co. will be in the same position, either that or they put someone else into that position. NOT EVERYONE CAN PLAY EACH WEEK!! people dont seem to understand that.

I believe we have the players to create a very good forward line. next year it could look something like this:
FF:Welsh Biglands/McGregor Bode/Roo
HF:Reilly Bock/Stevens Thompson/Burton

Bode and Roo can swap into the middle for stints up there. and roo will undoubtedly spend some time on the bench. Biglands can kick a goal, we've seen that this year, and he has also proven recently that he infact can ruck. Burton, reilly and thomo can all kick goals and run in the middle so they can fill those duties. And Bock has shown us on the weekend what he can do up forward. Perrie can also play forward, and whenhe is in form he can really do some damage. his work rate is second to none and he is a good leading target. when he is in form. i say keep him on the list, he can be very important. especially if there is an injury to one of our other KPP's!

the middle: Edwards & Goodwin will lead this group again in 2007. other players to play in the middle could/will be shirley, Doughty, VB, Johncock, Porplyzia, Reilly, Thompson, Burton, Ricciuto, Mattner, Skipworth and Douglas.
would be great to see young porps get more time on the field, but he has earnt himself a spot in the first 22 now which is a good start. With Props, Dougy, and VB getting more game time, the midfield is still looking in good shape. If Mattner's run can be combined with better decision making, he will be a gun, look out for him in 07!

The back 6: Rutten, Bassett, Torney, Johncock (also in the middle in 07), Mcleod, Stevens/McGregor, Massie, and VB will predominently hold these spots. depending on the opposition, stevens and kenny can swap between forward and back. i realise there is more than 6 guys there, but the back 6 can be made form these players. Hart if he plays on will also slot in there. if his form is good he is still in our best back 6! last year though unless he has a blinder in 07! i think what we are missing though and this showed against WC on saturday, is a tall defender. Rutten was our tallest at 192cm and they had Lynch, hunter, hansen who are all at least 194cm with lynch at 198cm.

1R: Hudson, with the other 2 spots filled by midfielders mentioned above.

Team will look something like:

F: Welsh Biglands/McGregor/Bock Bode/Roo
HF: Reilly Bock/Stevens/Perrie Thompson/Burton
C: Mattner/VB/Skippy Edwards/Shirley/Johncock Doughty/Porplyzia
HB: McLeod/Mattner Stevens/McGregor Johncock/VB/Massie
B: Bassett/Massie Rutten Torney/Hart

Int: Maric as Second ruck and 3 from above.
obviously they cant all play every week, but there is sure to be some injuries throughout the season.

I think we need to pick up a tall athletic defender, another strong midfielder (like young douglas) and a key forward for the future, i dont think Bonaddio quite cuts it! i dont think we should trade anyone unless they want to be traded (go home factor). there could be a de listing or 2 from the guys who havent played much, and Clarke will retire (and perhaps hart also). this will leave 3 or 4 places in the list for new players!

 

[Cap]

I do agree with Craigy on this one

Age really is not an issue Craig Bradley played until he was almost 40 and still constantly cut teams apart

get over your 30+ syndrome - its a media beat up in attempt to catergorise a club into an area where they can try and either talk them up or bag them

 

[Redline]

Yeah and AFC are such a rabble that they would re-sing a player for 2 years only to delist him and waste the money just for the sake of it

And do you honestly think that one of the best run clubs in the AFL such as AFC wouldn't have a planned approach on this very issue?! I mean seriously, the people running the club and the coach himself are highly professional and they are the ones best placed to make a decision.

I agree we do have the best and they couldn't give 2 cents for what we have to say but doesn't mean it can't be discussed. We really just have to wait and see over the next say three years to see how they handle it

 

[KUNG FU]

Thats the kind of attitude we can't afford to have with our aging list. I agree Torney played some good games but has missed too many games through injuires over the last two years. We need to start to clean out our 30 + year olds starting with Clarke and Hart and I think Tonrey and Bigglands are next on the list at the end of next season. Or would you rather Edwards, Roo, Bassett ect? It needs a planned approach, the question is can Craigy and JR be hard enough in there decision making and player meetings.

Yeah I agree that we should manage our list better, but the fact is Torney is easily in our best 22 next year and should play every game that he is available.I'm willing to re-assess at the end of 2007, but Torney's retirement hardly merits dicussion, especially considering he's only just turned 29. He should play for another 2 seasons at least.

 

[Redline]

I do agree with Craigy on this one

Age really is not an issue Craig Bradley played until he was almost 40 and still constantly cut teams apart

get over your 30+ syndrome - its a media beat up in attempt to catergorise a club into an area where they can try and either talk them up or bag them

There are always exceptions, and thats one out of hundreds. Plenty break down in there early 30's as well.

 

[Redline]

Yeah I agree that we should manage our list better, but the fact is Torney is easily in our best 22 next year and should play every game that he is available.I'm willing to re-assess at the end of 2007, but Torney's retirement hardly merits dicussion, especially considering he's only just turned 29. He should play for another 2 seasons at least.

I am not talking retirement I am just saying him and Welsh need to get their bodies right.

 

[KUNG FU]

I am not talking retirement I am just saying him and Welsh need to get their bodies right.

Sorry, I got confused cos my original post was in relation to Kristof saying Torney should retire and assumed you were also advocating this position.

 

[AndrewJo]

Potential Trade
Shultz and Danny Meyer, two SA boys, 1 tall forward and a fast skillfull midfielder >>>>>>> Adelaide
John Meesen and Douglas >>>>>> Richmond both Victorians
Seems like a fair trade. Both Meyer and Messen where first rounders, the richmond boys have both shown they have potential at afl level, but importantly each team obtains players that fill there clubs needs, what do you think?

Fair trade...Go away! Nearly the most stupid suggestion that I have heard here. No way that this would be done...We have 2 potential superstars here but next year is the year for them.

 

[AndrewJo]

RETIRE: Matthew Clarke, Ben Hart

DELIST(Unless we can get a trade for them): Hayden Skipworth, Chad Gibson, Luke Jericho, John Hinge, Adrian Bonnadio, Tom Redden, Brad Sugars, Sam Elliott.

TRADES: Ian Perrie for Shannon Hurn(may have to throw in something not much though id say), John Meesen for Travis Varcoe(straight up fair trade and Geelong need a young ruckman), Ken Mcgregor and Richard Douglas for Pick #1(its hard to give up Dogulas after what he has achieved this year but i think Gibbs will be alot better than what Douglas will be and Mcgregor would definently help out the Carlton backline)

BEST TEAM:

B: Nathan Basset -- Ben Rutten -- Tyson Edwards
HB: Graham Johncock -- Scott Stevens -- Andrew Mcleod
C: Marty Mattner -- Robert Shirley -- Michael Doughty
HF: Brent Reilly -- Nathan Bock -- Brett Burton
F: Matthew Bode -- Scott Welsh -- Mark Ricciuto
R: Rhett Biglands -- Simon Goodwin -- Bryce Gibbs
I: Ben Hudson -- Scott Thompson -- Nathan Van Berlo -- Jason Torney
E: Chris Knights -- Ivan Maric -- Jason Porplyzia

Players id look at drafting if still around at our picks: Bryce Gibbs, Tom Hurley(i think its Tom anyways the one at Sturt), Justin Westhoff, Leigh Westhoff and Adrian Wilson.

Thank goodness you are not on the trading panel for the Crows!!

 

[Gets!]

get over your 30+ syndrome - its a media beat up in attempt to catergorise a club into an area where they can try and either talk them up or bag them

Great post. Agree 110%.

 

[BIG DADDY]

Happy with the list...leave it alone

 

[bus24]

Whoever said trade Douglas should be downright ashamed of their judgement. This kid is somethind special, Chris Judd Special.

 

[J.Gallagher #1]

hmm bus24 clearly u like douglas a lot whilst i think Douggie will be good he is nowhere near the Judd class and never will get to that class IMO, whereas Gibbs is in that class IMO, and as the old saying goes gotta give something to get something.

 

[Crow-mo]

Johncock would have your greatest trade value IMO - but would be all but untouchable.


How do you guys feel about Neils comment that you will be working the draft rather than the trade market and that you have not much to trade with ? (assuming its in context)

Wont this leave a middle aged void in your side with your older group (28/29 or older) and the kids with very little in between ?

very concerning from NC

 

[Crow-mo]

I don't mean to rude but that thread is just another pat on the back bull**** that you really don't need

don;t get me wrong I don;t think this season was a waste by any means but to get any value out of next year tough questions have to made asked

and I have faith the NC and Triggy will ask them

look I know you're as frustrated as everyone else.

but this we need a huge clear out thing, we can't accept this, is just internet chest thumping, an irrational reaction to a disappointing performance.

the issue isn't with what we have just done, but how we get just a bit better next year.