List management

[edgie]

I thought Thomson was good enough to be in our 22 during his time at the club, but you know... Mark Williams.

 

[Dalphonso]

Re: Butcher

I thought Thomson was good enough to be in our 22 during his time at the club, but you know... Mark Williams.

Thomson was hopeless and had many many oppurtunities to shine but failed at every hurdle.

 

[bomberclifford]

Re: Butcher

I thought Thomson was good enough to be in our 22 during his time at the club, but you know... Mark Williams.

You need closure.

Thomson was not good enough. Whether it was injury or attitude we'll never know but whatever it was, Choco was not the fault.


As for Butcher, I'm genuinely excited about seeing Port field a team with both he and Trengove in it. We are gradually moving towards a team with some serious grunt and I like it.

 

[edgie]

Re: Butcher

It's not like I'm hung up or anything, I just think he had a solid contoribution to most of the games he played in.

It would be fair to say I'm more hung up over Tredrae retirering.

 

[tribey]

Re: Butcher

Thomson was hopeless...

Hopeless enough to be rated by us as a first round draft pick and rated by Wisbey as a definite 'will make it'.

...and had many many oppurtunities to shine but failed at every hurdle.

He got precious little opportunities and when he did play he'd regularly knock up getting 15-20 touches, 2-5 tackles and a goal in 50-60% gametime before one quiet game would see him banished to Unley. Having said that, it is obvious that with the lightspeed pace the game has risen to combined with the rules committee's war on stoppages in the past 3-4 years Thomson has been exposed as a round peg in a square hole, his greatest strengths now bordering on obsolete.

Nick Lower on the other hand. Shit. Lost for words. Would've played 22 games this year and been considered a lock for our future.

If Scott Harding, Josh Carr and Jason Davenport were superior options to the both of them I'll ingest my own faeces.

 

[Powerstufff]

Re: Butcher

... it is obvious that with the lightspeed pace the game has risen to combined with the rules committee's war on stoppages in the past 3-4 years Thomson has been exposed as a round peg in a square hole, his greatest strengths now bordering on obsolete......

Let it go DT, let it go. Lyle, Poults, Thomilf - there are any number of brave popular players out there who nature hasn't quite given the whole package to.

 

[tribey]

Re: Butcher

Let it go DT, let it go. Lyle, Poults, Thomilf - there are any number of brave popular players out there who nature hasn't quite given the whole package to.

lol that's what I said. In today's game, not quick enough and his in-and-under grass-stained knees style isn't required - see Daniel Harris.

 

[manureid]

Re: Butcher

lol that's what I said. In today's game, not quick enough and his in-and-under grass-stained knees style isn't required - see Daniel Harris.

Yup, I really liked the way both these guys played, would have loved Harris in our team a few seasons ago. Sadly, the style they play, as you said DT, is obsolete.

 

[Coobk001]

Re: Butcher

Broadbent may well have been the next Thomson/Lower/Symes if Choco had remained. IMO.

 

[tribey]

Re: Butcher

Broadbent may well have been the next Thomson/Lower/Symes if Choco had remained. IMO.

And this is the thing for me.

Yes Lower, Thomson, Symes and Broadbent may not have ordinarily made it or make it in the long run, but unlike circa the time of Chris Hall who burned up for South Adelaide during our McClelland monopoly and understandably couldn't get into a side featuring Francou, Stevens, James, P. Burgoyne, Carr, Kornes et al, it's not as if we've been spoiled for choice when it comes to above average midfielders when these guys have needed the opportunities they'd earned on SANFL form, let alone the guns you need to truly challenge for September places let alone a pot.

Then to turn these guys over in favour of superior options is one thing, but cripes, a broken down Carr? Scott "48 games for Brisbane and I averaged less than 10 touches" Harding? Jason Davenport? And this is before we consider the absolute waste of list slots that are Matt Westhoff and Wade Thompson.

Hoping to polish a proven turd (too many to mention) or relying on pulling a rabbit out of the hat (Mahoney, Surjan, Pearce, Rodan, J. Westhoff) is lazy list management and really does bring into question our - or rather the previous regime's - ability to develop players in the long term.

 

[Portology]

Re: Butcher

just to get remotely back OT, some of those mentioned did BUTCHER their opportunities

 

[Natman]

Re: Butcher

Broadbent may well have been the next Thomson/Lower/Symes if Choco had remained. IMO.

I think you are taking the Choco bashing on this board just a little too far. To make him the scapregoat for everything that goes wrong, or is imagined to be wrong, is just an easy cop-out.

I am going to say that Choco has left us with the nucleus of a good, young group who will require some re-motivation, some re-schooling and re-game planning - if we get the right person then there will be some real hope for the future.

Hopefully, in a few years, we can say - about our youngish list - Choco, you were right.

 

[Minotaur]

Re: Butcher

Broadbent may well have been the next Thomson/Lower/Symes if Choco had remained. IMO.

I agree that the Choco bashing is getting out of control.

At least two of those blokes have been proven to be pretty ordinary (Thomson can't get a game at a second club and Symes is barely setting the world on fire) and the AFL ability of the third (Lower) remains totally hypothetical. Using those three as examples would seem to vindicate Choco's judgement. I could add Damon White as an additional strike against the Big footy Board and in favour of Choco in terms of player judgement.

Not sure how choco can be blamed for the failure of these guys to become good AFL players.

 

[Powerstufff]

Re: Butcher

...... Lower, Thomson, Symes and Broadbent ....
.... to turn these guys over in favour of superior options is one thing, but cripes, a broken down Carr? Scott "48 games for Brisbane and I averaged less than 10 touches" Harding? Jason Davenport? And this is before we consider the absolute waste of list slots that are Matt Westhoff and Wade Thompson.....

Broadbent may well have been the next Thomson/Lower/Symes if Choco had remained. IMO.

I think you are taking the Choco bashing on this board just a little too far. To make him the scapegoat for everything that goes wrong, or is imagined to be wrong, is just an easy cop-out.......

Sorry but I largely agree with the guys above. The club's list management was quirky and more appropriate to a team in the top 4 with a whole bunch of locked in high performers. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. But the more Primus has success with a different selection philosophy than Choco had in recent years then the more this particular criticism of Choco is justified.

....I am going to say that Choco has left us with the nucleus of a good, young group.....

Well as far as leaving good young lists goes pretty well every sacked coach does it. Wallace, Pagan, Ayers.... is there an exception? The fact that the kids are virtually unknowns until the new guy takes over is part of the reason a new guy was needed.

 

[Natman]

Re: Butcher

Sorry but I largely agree with the guys above. The club's list management was quirky and more appropriate to a team in the top 4 with a whole bunch of locked in high performers. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. But the more Primus has success with a different selection philosophy than Choco had in recent years then the more this particular criticism of Choco is justified.

Well as far as leaving good young lists goes pretty well every sacked coach does it. Wallace, Pagan, Ayers.... is there an exception? The fact that the kids are virtually unknowns until the new guy takes over is part of the reason a new guy was needed.

No need to be sorry, but what I said would have been more explanatory and aligned with your post if my whole post was quoted.

 

[Powerstufff]

Re: Butcher

No need to be sorry, but what I said would have been more explanatory and aligned with your post if my whole post was quoted.

Yeah, even more so Dyertribe's. Thing with yours is I wanted to reply to two aspects of it, but reversed from your original. Sorry if I misrepresented you at all.

 

[statman87]

Re: Butcher

Butcher wasn't exactly injured. He developed back soreness in the pre season and it was decided to alter his training workload and keep him away from competitive work. The aim was for him to work on his core strength to prevent any risk of stress fractures in his spine.

Has been in the magoos at the Port Magpies for 4 or 6 weeks and his body appears to be holding up well. The club see him as the replacement for Warren Tredrea going forward and have been super careful to ensure his body will stay sound over the years.

Thomson had a cult following here but I think towards the end there was a degree of resignation amongst some that he might not have all the atrributes to make it at the top level. I'm not quite sure what prevented him from kicking on but it's interesting to see he's not been able to establish himself at Richmond. Has he had any injury issues this year?

yeh mate hes had groin trouble since like round 11 so i would say o p something along those lines from a fellow murray bridge boy i hope he stays on the list at the tiges

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Re: Butcher

lol that's what I said. In today's game, not quick enough and his in-and-under grass-stained knees style isn't required - see Daniel Harris.

Err, Matt Thomas?

 

[Schulzenfest]

Re: Butcher

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Thomas isn't on an AFL list in a few year's time for the reasons mentioned earlier.

 

[Toots Hibbert]

If you have a replay of the Melbourne game have a look at what he does in a pack at around 15:40 (on the time clock) of the second quarter. Grabs the ball in a pack, gets tackled, twists his body from side to side to dislodge the tackle then dishes off the handball to a receiver who makes a getaway.

That's what guys like Matt Thomas give you and it will never go out of fashion.

 

[240volt]

Thomas is not the worst on our list by a long shot
he is light years in front of mugs like Matthew Westhoff and Thompson

 

[elsler]

If you have a replay of the Melbourne game have a look at what he does in a pack at around 15:40 (on the time clock) of the second quarter. Grabs the ball in a pack, gets tackled, twists his body from side to side to dislodge the tackle then dishes off the handball to a receiver who makes a getaway.

That's what guys like Matt Thomas give you and it will never go out of fashion.

yep that handpass went to boak who kicked a goal

 

[Schulzenfest]

Thomas is not the worst on our list by a long shot
he is light years in front of mugs like Matthew Westhoff and Thompson

They'll be gone in three years though, along with Nash, Harding, Davenport etc. Thomas could easily be overtaken by our current crop of kids and find himself on the outer in a few years unless he improves the other areas of his game.

 

[S.Patrol.G]

Re: Butcher

Broadbent may well have been the next Thomson/Lower/Symes if Choco had remained. IMO.

Not may well- would have. Had Choco stayed and had there not been some pretty serious conversation during the mid-season review, Broadbent was on his was out the door at season's end. Remember, Choco didn't even have Broadbent in the best 30 at the club!

By the way, 2 of Broadbent's "mates" would have been pushed through that same door- had Choco stayed, that is.

 

[Peck]

Re: Butcher

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Thomas isn't on an AFL list in a few year's time for the reasons mentioned earlier.

Groundless statement.