That is sensible.
First of all, its not "random". They were suspicious and rightfully so.
Secondly, asking for your ID is not a charge of guilt.
Once again, people being obscenely offended by a police officer asking for their ID. FFS get over it !
The Law Man eating lunch near children = Pedo?
- Thread starter morell
- Start date
- Tagged users None
That is sensible.
First of all, its not "random". They were suspicious and rightfully so.
Secondly, asking for your ID is not a charge of guilt.
Once again, people being obscenely offended by a police officer asking for their ID. FFS get over it !
- Banned
- #277
If the police had been less confrontational I bet the OP would have been a lot more agreeable to co-operating. i mean, that's how I read it from his account anyway. Cops don't ned to be such ***** on routine inspections, I've encountered that sort of belligerent attitude for no reason plenty of times, and I'm pretty damn non-confrontational when it comes to cops.
Loner sits in his favourite place near a school to eat his lunch every day
Cops become suspicious, they even ask him for I.D.
Loner throws a hissy fit and demands his ‘rights’
Cops notice he has bald tyres, loner gets fined
Loner shares his story with the world
Loner sits in his favourite place near a school to eat his lunch every day
Cops become suspicious, they even ask him for I.D.
Loner throws a hissy fit and demands his ‘rights’
Cops notice he has bald tyres, loner gets fined
Loner shares his story with the world
I think bit pattern was referring to Corpuscles ramblings, not the OP's.
I might comply if a police officer came up to me and said "look sorry to bug you sir but we have to ask the question because there's a school nearby, and we've had reports of men loitering. You've got a #2 haircut and a goatee sooo mind us having a look at some ID so we can do a quick check and put our minds at ease that you're not a kiddy fiddler? It will only take a few minutes and we'll let you go back to your lunch"
I wouldn't have a problem if they explained their concerns in a courteous and professional manner, especially if they're patrolling near schools protecting children and trying to catch pedophiles. Where I draw the line is when they are rude and arrogant like in the OP.
Granted, police officers have a hard job. They make it even harder for themselves, and the community in general, when they piss off honest law abiding citizens.
Mordecai
Norm Smith Medallist
Given the whole scenaro provided in the OP and following post providing a transcript, is it your opinion that the police officers acted in a manner befitting to their role in the community?
I will reserve a judgement until Ive heard from both sides. Presumption of innocence and all that.
Your question does pose an interesting topic of debate though. What is the role of Police in the community?
The latter part of this thread also brings up an interesting topic. How and who should handle complaints against Police? Personally I would like to see an indepedant government department set up to handle all complaints. Apart from seeking the truth it would make all parties accountable and free up police man hours.
Agree with this, and there would be a lot of nonsense complaints by hippies who reckon they get rough handled when being chucked in the back of a wagon resisting arrest etc. But if there's an independent body assigned to deal with complaints not only would it help the image of the complaints process, but as you say free up police hours. This is how the health industry works. Complaints about health workers are investigated by the HCCC no matter how trivial.
I also think that generally, people who complain about police behavior who aren't charged with an offence, or are not a serial complainants, are probably more likely to make a genuine complaint.
Mordecai
Norm Smith Medallist
That's fair. I assume you won't meet both parties, so if the scenario presented were to have occured as described then what would be your opinion on the way the officers conducted themselves in the fullness of the exchange?
The coppers were quite light. Nothing happened other than them letting off lightly some smart arse.
Do you actually believe that the full version is being presented. The "exact transcript" doesnt match the OP for starters.
Mordecai
Norm Smith Medallist
If we accept the story that the officers defected his car to get his ID then I think that is going a little overboard. Their initial approach, if documented correctly, I also find distasteful. I understand that the police need to adopt an overbearing tone at times, but I also think they should use their own discretion in how they'll talk to someone. Leading with an authoritarian tone is a dangerous way to kick things off.
I'm still fairly young so my experience with the police isn't great. I would say only on one occassion have I been disappointed by their attitude. The rest of the time they are well spoken, willing to listen and understanding if you reciprocate the mentioned traits.
On the one occassion I have been disappointed it so happend we were 4 "kids" all 18 driving on a freeway to play indoor soccer. The Eastern freeway had that day been extended and we were unsure if we'd passed our exit to Springvale so we slowed a little and got pulled over for doing so. The guy that ran the license, checked the car (he actually shined his light into our headlights which were on - I don't understand how that works) was just disgraceful, his manner abhorrent. He left saying, "was it a good first time for you, it's my first time too". From that I gather it was his first time pulling someone over and dressing them down - I think 9 months training is too short. Hopefully he learns on the job, like I'm sure the rest of the other cops have done.
It can't have been. What is presented though leaves for an interesting topic to discuss.
- Thread starter
- #290
Let me off? What crime did I commit to be "let off" of?
My tyres were bald according to the officers, hence my car being defected.
Being a smart arse is not a crime.
The exact transcript is spot on except I forgot the fact that he asked for my name and that I gave it.
The OP was meant to relay the jist of what happened. Other than that I can guarantee you that the full version is exactly as it appears in this thread.
You questioning my integrity without cause is greatly offensive.
Levi.
I believe to some people any contact with the Police is deemed as over the top. Some people just dont like them for whatever reasons. Many reasons are justified, many are purely paranoia or a simple dislike of authority.
Judging by how the OP has played the victim throughout this thread it is not hard to see what category he/she is in.
I believe to some people any contact with the Police is deemed as over the top. Some people just dont like them for whatever reasons. Many reasons are justified, many are purely paranoia or a simple dislike of authority.
Judging by how the OP has played the victim throughout this thread it is not hard to see what category he/she is in.
Been through that.
But it is cause for a complaint.
Greatly offensive??????
The power that comes with the uniform is attractive to control freaks. I knew someone who had his heart set on becoming a copper so he could wield authority over others and impress girls with the badge. His application was rejected on the grounds of a prior conviction, but I'd like to think he'd have been weeded out anyway by the psych testing.
Mordecai
Norm Smith Medallist
100% agree. If the OP and transcript were written with the bent you suggest then all bets are off.
If happend as written, then I am disappointed in the conduct of the officers. (not sure we agree on this though)
One more question - if a sane individual (one not paranoid about police or with a general desire to stick it up authority) were to excercise his or her right not give ID (assuming morrel wasn't in control of the vehicle) would you take issue with such an action?
- Thread starter
- #295
When it someone who is supposedly in a position of authority, absolutely!But it is cause for a complaint.
I would never treat anyone I deal with in my profession in that way.
Maybe I am expecting too much from the Police and that common courtesy and decency isn't something that everyone deserves.
Ask Ron The Bear how I treat people who question my integrity.
You have essentially accused me of lying, for what reason I am not sure....
Not at all, athough I would have to ask why anyone with nothing to hide would refuse. But I do agree that the law is the law and thats why I have no trouble with the police using obscure laws especially those found in the Road Safety Acts.
Any traffic copper worth his salt will be able to find at least 5 things wrong with any car. The OP got off light.
Mordecai
Norm Smith Medallist
The right (to silence I'll call it) is being eroded - so perhaps it's exercise is done to ensure it is not further eroded.
I would say that the officer's using the Road Safety Act were not acting in the "spirit of the law".
On cue I'll vouch for your character here by saying you're a straight shooter who stands up for himself (and not a pedo!). On the other hand, your triggers for making you feel 'wronged' are a little different to the majority (IMO).
Morell and those who support his view seem to have these main concerns"
1. The upbrupt, impolite or hostile manner of the police?
2. The inference that he was lunching to observe children?
3. That a citizen who considered himself completely innocent was asked to produce ID in a demanding manner?
4. The police defected his car perhaps in spite or unnecessarily?
5. Perhaps even, that police had the audacity to approach someone who regularly has lunch in car or near in that location?
6. Some seem to infer that.... all coppers are on an ego driven "power trip"....and some even claim that most are corrupt!?
I put it to you.
1. The reason why Morell was likely approached was police considered his action or presence suspicious. No one here nor Morell knows what reasoning was behind that action.
Police when approaching suspicious persons whether they suspect sexual perversion or a burgular casing out a target or some other activity? Do they approach in the following (example only ) manner?
Police: G'day mate...we have had a few reports of suspected paedophiles in the area just wondering what you are up to and whether you had noticed anything supicious?
Morell: Nah Sir! I just come down here regularly at lunchtime to listen to the radio and chill. Haven't noticed any suspicious activity myself!
Police: Oh OK! It has a beautiful ambiance here hey! Oh, mate do you mind if I just check your ID to pretend I am not goofin off? I am supposed to be looking for a report of some bloke who has broke in to number 92 twice in the last month! But I can see your a fine cut of a fella! You've even got Port sticker on the rear window!
NO! They would get no where, that is... NOT! how it works!
They intentionally approach suspicious persons with abrupt, disconcerting, unsettling manner to assess the suspects reaction! They never disclose the real reason for their approach! They ask a vague leading questions or inflame to get a reaction.
It would sort of go like this:" Exact transcript;"
Officer 1 - "Excuse me, sir, would you please step out of the vehicle"
Officer 2 - "Stand on the sidewalk"
Officer 1 - "Any reason why you're parked here, sir?
Me - "Yeah I quite often have lunch here, it's a beautiful street and I work just up the road at <place of work>"
Officer 1 - "Can you provide some identification?"
Me - "I can, but I would like to politely refuse, can I ask what crime I have committed"
Officer 1 - "So you're refusing to provide ID"
Me - "I am. As you would both be aware it is my right to do so"
Officer 1 - "Fine, I am just going to look at your vehicle"
Morells reaction had it been cooperative under pressure, would have avoided exacerbating suspicion and the likely need to ensure that ID and possible admissable evidence was gained about his identity and exact time and location.
Criminals and lawbreakers do not like coppers, and they show it! Folks with nothing to hide , have nothing to fear!
Morell was likely completely innocent and doing nothing wrong! However next time both he and the BF readership ought realise not all coppers are corrupt and they are doing their job. If you want to be a smart arse you will 9 times out of 10 come out worse off! Cooperation will give you the chance to demonstrate and explain what nice fella's you are!!!!
(PS. Yes..yes ..I know!... many of you lot can't read english too well)
1. The upbrupt, impolite or hostile manner of the police?
2. The inference that he was lunching to observe children?
3. That a citizen who considered himself completely innocent was asked to produce ID in a demanding manner?
4. The police defected his car perhaps in spite or unnecessarily?
5. Perhaps even, that police had the audacity to approach someone who regularly has lunch in car or near in that location?
6. Some seem to infer that.... all coppers are on an ego driven "power trip"....and some even claim that most are corrupt!?
I put it to you.
1. The reason why Morell was likely approached was police considered his action or presence suspicious. No one here nor Morell knows what reasoning was behind that action.
Police when approaching suspicious persons whether they suspect sexual perversion or a burgular casing out a target or some other activity? Do they approach in the following (example only ) manner?
Police: G'day mate...we have had a few reports of suspected paedophiles in the area just wondering what you are up to and whether you had noticed anything supicious?
Morell: Nah Sir! I just come down here regularly at lunchtime to listen to the radio and chill. Haven't noticed any suspicious activity myself!
Police: Oh OK! It has a beautiful ambiance here hey! Oh, mate do you mind if I just check your ID to pretend I am not goofin off? I am supposed to be looking for a report of some bloke who has broke in to number 92 twice in the last month! But I can see your a fine cut of a fella! You've even got Port sticker on the rear window!
NO! They would get no where, that is... NOT! how it works!
They intentionally approach suspicious persons with abrupt, disconcerting, unsettling manner to assess the suspects reaction! They never disclose the real reason for their approach! They ask a vague leading questions or inflame to get a reaction.
It would sort of go like this:" Exact transcript;"
Officer 1 - "Excuse me, sir, would you please step out of the vehicle"
Officer 2 - "Stand on the sidewalk"
Officer 1 - "Any reason why you're parked here, sir?
Me - "Yeah I quite often have lunch here, it's a beautiful street and I work just up the road at <place of work>"
Officer 1 - "Can you provide some identification?"
Me - "I can, but I would like to politely refuse, can I ask what crime I have committed"
Officer 1 - "So you're refusing to provide ID"
Me - "I am. As you would both be aware it is my right to do so"
Officer 1 - "Fine, I am just going to look at your vehicle"
Morells reaction had it been cooperative under pressure, would have avoided exacerbating suspicion and the likely need to ensure that ID and possible admissable evidence was gained about his identity and exact time and location.
Criminals and lawbreakers do not like coppers, and they show it! Folks with nothing to hide , have nothing to fear!
Morell was likely completely innocent and doing nothing wrong! However next time both he and the BF readership ought realise not all coppers are corrupt and they are doing their job. If you want to be a smart arse you will 9 times out of 10 come out worse off! Cooperation will give you the chance to demonstrate and explain what nice fella's you are!!!!
(PS. Yes..yes ..I know!... many of you lot can't read english too well
)
