Marsh Series - Round 1 vs North Melbourne

[Fossie 32]

Bailey Williams got caught too easily and made bad decisions as per every game he has ever played. I understand that he could be a good footballer but should the team play him just to give away 2-3 goals a game due to his lack of awareness? He seems to get a go even though he does it week in week out? Bevo has a few favourites and he seems to be one of them. Roarke is similar but I see that Roarke has a lot more up side. He has a bit of dog in him and does the hard stuff that won us the last premiership. We need more like him but again not at the cost of a better player with better skill and awareness.

If you want to win premierships you need quality mixed with toughness and all this delivering under extreme pressure. Matthew Boyd, Bob Murphy and even to some extent Matthew Suckling had all played a lot of football to get the point where they could chew off that little bit more with their running and then risky kicking. bailey takes risks that are not neccesary and the team gets penalised too often for it to be worth it any more. Even Suckling does it at times as well and he needs to keep the 'mistakes' to a minimum. Risk reward is the name of the game and we can play it well. Just need the ball in the hands of Caleb, Suckling, Croshier and Keath. JJ as well but he needs to get it and run in space. Wood is the other lock for our best team in defence and there you have a pretty good core group. Throw in Taylor Duryea and Zaine Cordy and you have one of the better defences in the comp.

No room up forward for Bailey either. plenty to choose from at his size and skill level. Midfield is also full of stars and backup quality coming through. He has ability but playing good football in the 2's doesn't always mean it will translate to AFL level. Yo either have it or you don't. Sadly no one else wanted him and we should really have let him go if we could have.

Sweet impressed me but is a little way off. Hayes does good things but doesn't always finish. Good backup for the best team if we need them. Hopefully we can have a good run with injury and form this year.

Welcome pdsm

I wouldn't say Bailey 'always gets a go' as he only played 9 games last year but hopefully he can improve and be at least good backup

 

[Mutt]

Bailey Williams got caught too easily and made bad decisions as per every game he has ever played. I understand that he could be a good footballer but should the team play him just to give away 2-3 goals a game due to his lack of awareness? He seems to get a go even though he does it week in week out? Bevo has a few favourites and he seems to be one of them. Roarke is similar but I see that Roarke has a lot more up side. He has a bit of dog in him and does the hard stuff that won us the last premiership. We need more like him but again not at the cost of a better player with better skill and awareness.

If you want to win premierships you need quality mixed with toughness and all this delivering under extreme pressure. Matthew Boyd, Bob Murphy and even to some extent Matthew Suckling had all played a lot of football to get the point where they could chew off that little bit more with their running and then risky kicking. bailey takes risks that are not neccesary and the team gets penalised too often for it to be worth it any more. Even Suckling does it at times as well and he needs to keep the 'mistakes' to a minimum. Risk reward is the name of the game and we can play it well. Just need the ball in the hands of Caleb, Suckling, Croshier and Keath. JJ as well but he needs to get it and run in space. Wood is the other lock for our best team in defence and there you have a pretty good core group. Throw in Taylor Duryea and Zaine Cordy and you have one of the better defences in the comp.

No room up forward for Bailey either. plenty to choose from at his size and skill level. Midfield is also full of stars and backup quality coming through. He has ability but playing good football in the 2's doesn't always mean it will translate to AFL level. Yo either have it or you don't. Sadly no one else wanted him and we should really have let him go if we could have.

Sweet impressed me but is a little way off. Hayes does good things but doesn't always finish. Good backup for the best team if we need them. Hopefully we can have a good run with injury and form this year.

Welcome aboard! It took a while for you to make your first contribution but it was a good 'un!

 

[Southern 8]

I think BF is a bit harsh on B Williams. He was flying in 2018 before injury and played well forward when recovered to play last game against Richmond. I still have faith, and at the least provides great depth like R Smith, Hayes, Trengove etc If we have injuries.

 

[King Harold]

Where are you fronk ?

 

[DognBones]

This has been discussed in detail before; I think we are still looking for a quality wingman. Hayes is a solid player but lacks the speed and disposal of a good wingman. R Smith is a heart and soul performer who is a great tackler but also lacks an edge of class. Not sure why B Smith is not earmarked for the position; he has something the other two lack. Perhaps when the real stuff starts he may be preferred.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

it’s funny how most of us see the promise in Schache but all the commentary does is bash into him

 

[NthBondiDoggies]

Smith is the best player for the available wing - but he will be needed in the guts.

Other than Bont - He is the only other player with breakaway speed from the inside out. Bont will be tagged or whacked most games and won’t be allowed the space he was against North. When he is we need to hurt them. Smith and Libba will do this and Macrae and Dunkley will get their hands on the ball but don’t have breakaway. This is the Six Star midfield that great teams look for. Wallis is great cover.

So we are more likely to play Suckling - he has proven many of us wrong (me included - removed many faults and improved his work rate). He is a good player and brings something special - is also a lot faster than given credit for.

And Daniel start often on the wing - he could end up making this his own but will roll into the QB role rather than what gives Suckling an advantage - moving forward to kick goals.

Richards is a perfect kid in the development zone - has shown what he can do and will mature to remove the clangers. Takes the game on - which he will have been told to do. Has pace skills and drive. (I think he will have this role sewed up by year end barring injury). I don’t think Suckling has the legs to play there every week and cover that ground. Richards can also roll back to HBF and interchange with JJ - this will be really valuable. Coming up behind him is Vandermeer and a couple of the other draft kids.

We have been searching for back up with Rourke Smith (heart but can’t seem to grab the ball under pressure and is at best an average kick in the run - wingman needs to have outside skills).

Hayes has the gut running that puts him ahead of all but maybe Hunter and Daniel. But skills again let him down.

 

[BEaston]

Bailey Williams got caught too easily and made bad decisions as per every game he has ever played. I understand that he could be a good footballer but should the team play him just to give away 2-3 goals a game due to his lack of awareness? He seems to get a go even though he does it week in week out? Bevo has a few favourites and he seems to be one of them. Roarke is similar but I see that Roarke has a lot more up side. He has a bit of dog in him and does the hard stuff that won us the last premiership. We need more like him but again not at the cost of a better player with better skill and awareness.

If you want to win premierships you need quality mixed with toughness and all this delivering under extreme pressure. Matthew Boyd, Bob Murphy and even to some extent Matthew Suckling had all played a lot of football to get the point where they could chew off that little bit more with their running and then risky kicking. bailey takes risks that are not neccesary and the team gets penalised too often for it to be worth it any more. Even Suckling does it at times as well and he needs to keep the 'mistakes' to a minimum. Risk reward is the name of the game and we can play it well. Just need the ball in the hands of Caleb, Suckling, Croshier and Keath. JJ as well but he needs to get it and run in space. Wood is the other lock for our best team in defence and there you have a pretty good core group. Throw in Taylor Duryea and Zaine Cordy and you have one of the better defences in the comp.

No room up forward for Bailey either. plenty to choose from at his size and skill level. Midfield is also full of stars and backup quality coming through. He has ability but playing good football in the 2's doesn't always mean it will translate to AFL level. Yo either have it or you don't. Sadly no one else wanted him and we should really have let him go if we could have.

Sweet impressed me but is a little way off. Hayes does good things but doesn't always finish. Good backup for the best team if we need them. Hopefully we can have a good run with injury and form this year.

I started writing a post but it sounded pretty negative. I'll just say that I completely disagree that Roarke has more upside than Williams.

Not sure if either are best 22 but I'm a lot more confident with Williams doing more with any opportunities he may get.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Schache totally underrated atm kicks goals every game provides a marking target on the wing and up forward his pressure improves every game and hes 22 years old a huge steal for us and smart as fu** recruiting

The thing I loved about him late last year was the fact he often bobbed up for two-three goals in a game even when quiet.

Very encouraged by the way he hit packs. Won’t ever play like Jonathan Brown but can see him creeping up to 45 goals just by presenting each week.

 

[Pugz89]

For the first hit-out of the year, the skills were pretty good for the most part. Most of the errors were under pressure, but early on we were hitting targets at will. We also seemed to be a lot more fluent in our transition with a priority to lower the eyes going into forward 50. The dump kick seemed to be second preference, wonder if that will be the case with Bruce and Naughts up there.. Nonetheless, good showing and just one short-term injury is a good result.

Also chucked $25 on Bont for the Brownlow after the game. If he does that even every second game, he'll drag us to a flag, sublime.

 

[Kennel Master]

Bailey Williams played OK but he is still making the same mistakes he was making year one.

His peripheral vision is poor and he gets caught holding the ball too often.

He has lots of skill, is brave, he's quick, marks well, but sometimes his decision making is questionable.

I like him but his mistakes often turn into opposition goals, and that is a problem.

KM

 

[Dry Rot]

Where are you fronk ?

Last I heard, Fronk went on holiday in January to Wuhan. Anyone heard from him since?

 

[Mofra]

This has been discussed in detail before; I think we are still looking for a quality wingman. Hayes is a solid player but lacks the speed and disposal of a good wingman. R Smith is a heart and soul performer who is a great tackler but also lacks an edge of class. Not sure why B Smith is not earmarked for the position; he has something the other two lack. Perhaps when the real stuff starts he may be preferred.

Right now Roarke is probably the best option but is clearly better playing as a 'defensive' wingman. A genuine gun wingman to pair with Hunter is still the biggest hole in our team. Hayes runs well but still looks like a kid who won a raffle to run out on the big stage with the side, and Williams/Mclean have been tried without success. Bailey Smith might be able to do it but he's very good inside so perhaps won't 'hold position' enough to play a pure wing role.

 

[Mofra]

For the first hit-out of the year, the skills were pretty good for the most part. Most of the errors were under pressure, but early on we were hitting targets at will. We also seemed to be a lot more fluent in our transition with a priority to lower the eyes going into forward 50. The dump kick seemed to be second preference, wonder if that will be the case with Bruce and Naughts up there.. Nonetheless, good showing and just one short-term injury is a good result.

I was pretty surprised at how clean we were for a first game. Jackson Macrae was a little untidy early but was cleaner in the second half, and Keath looked rusty in the first half but I was very happy with his second half. If he plays this year like he did in the second half we should be over the moon with his contribution. Keath can intercept mark, Cordy punching, and Crozier marking everything in sight. I'd still like to see how they all work with lachie Young in the side as I really rate what he should develop into.

 

[Mattdougie]

Right now Roarke is probably the best option

If this sentence is true we are not contending

 

[Virgin Dog]

If this sentence is true we are not contending

Eagles won a premiership with Daniel Venables in the side. Roarke is clearly the weakest link, but he's no Honeychurch

 

[dogwatch]

Eagles won a premiership with Daniel Venables in the side. Roarke is clearly the weakest link, but he's no Honeychurch

And we won a flag with Fletcher Roberts as a key defender. It happens quite a bit.

That said I don't think Roarke is our best option. Handy depth. He's a goer.

 

[Virgin Dog]

And we won a flag with Fletcher Roberts as a key defender. It happens quite a bit.

That said I don't think Roarke is our best option. Handy depth. He's a goer.

Yeah I wouldn't say Roarke is strictly our best option, but he's not horrible depth. There is no best option on the wing imo, as all options have clear deficiencies. Richards has the speed, skills and ability to find space, but struggles to get anywhere near enough of the ball. Hayes has that production, without the clean foot skills. Suckling is a beautiful user and reader of the play, but doesn't have the speed that the others offer. End of the day, no team is perfect and we are always going to have a weak spot.

Ultimately, this is basically an improved version of the 22 that beat Richmond by 8 goals, nearly broke the AFL record for consecutive goals against Essendon, and belted GWS at their own ground (unfortunately didn't repeat in finals, but the point stands). The wing may be a weak spot, but it's not going to stop us competing for a flag this year

 

[Dazb86]

it’s funny how most of us see the promise in Schache but all the commentary does is bash into him

He did some smart things on the weekend and his skills are great for a tall. He's still a little bit timid at the contest in the air at times though. The way he crashed that pack in the goal square was a good sign.

I think he'll be fine but he's probably not going to ever play like a traditional KPF. If he can start impacting the contest more from an unfavourable position he'll become a lock in the 22.

 

[ScragCity]

I was seated right behind North Melbourne's bench and I clearly overheard Shaw telling his players to keep the ball away from "Roarke Smith's wing." Opposition coaches fear him as much as Clarko fears Jong.

 

[ScragCity]

He did some smart things on the weekend and his skills are great for a tall. He's still a little bit timid at the contest in the air at times though. The way he crashed that pack in the goal square was a good sign.

I think he'll be fine but he's probably not going to ever play like a traditional KPF. If he can start impacting the contest more from an unfavourable position he'll become a lock in the 22.

His attack on the contest is fine. He's crashing packs. His bodywork is fine. He just doesn't hold marks he should be holding for some reason. Very similar to Tom Boyd in that regard. Does anyone have access to Schache's hand measurements?

 

[Leon]

That said I don't think Roarke is our best option. Handy depth. He's a goer.

This for me too.

Roarke isn’t a superstar. He isn’t a dud either. He is a fringe player who has his positives and negatives.

I wouldn’t have him in my best 22 but he can fill a role and do a job when necessary.

 

[TBOW]

I was at the game so probably missed a bit that the folks at home saw but saw some things they didn't.
Here's a few quick thoughts.

1. Bont is just a class above.

2. Lewis Young did do well, but the goals he kicked were due to horrible defensive organisation from North. For his second goal they left the whole fat side open to lead into and the guys dropping back were undercomitted to making the contest. He lacks a bit of energy as a forward (a bit like Shache) and will never get it that easy in the regular season.

3. I've always had a soft spot for Roarke Smith and he played with good intensity but his cleanness and composure let him down a few times. Conversely Bailey Williams looked pretty clean and composed but just seems to lacks intensity. It could just be that he is a bit slow of foot by AFL standards.

4. Keath didn't do anything outstanding but he is a huge guy and he seems to bring a bit of confidence to the back 6.

5. Crozier is a rock.

6. Dickson looked zippy and will not be handing over his forward pocket without a fight.

7. Dunkley looked a bit rusty to me.

8. I hope with Keath and Bruce we don't need Gardner too often this year.

9. McLean looked like he was trying hard but couldn't catch a break. Bad bounces, bad delivery, ignored in space etc. but it has kind of felt a bit like that for him for a couple of years now.

10. That was just the kind of win you want from a game like that. Comfortable but without really getting into top gear. Just felt a level above North. Let's hope we get into gear when the real stuff starts.

 

[AFDogs]

9. McLean looked like he was trying hard but couldn't catch a break. Bad bounces, bad delivery, ignored in space etc. but it has kind of felt a bit like that for him for a couple of years now.

He broke out in 2018 and had his best year. It was just last year was a bit of an aberration for him. Dunkley emerging as a contested beast and a healthy Libba has forced him forward.

I'd be silly to say this but it wouldn't surprised me if he requested a trade within the next couple years to play mid elsewhere.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

Yeah I wouldn't say Roarke is strictly our best option, but he's not horrible depth. There is no best option on the wing imo, as all options have clear deficiencies. Richards has the speed, skills and ability to find space, but struggles to get anywhere near enough of the ball. Hayes has that production, without the clean foot skills. Suckling is a beautiful user and reader of the play, but doesn't have the speed that the others offer. End of the day, no team is perfect and we are always going to have a weak spot.

Ultimately, this is basically an improved version of the 22 that beat Richmond by 8 goals, nearly broke the AFL record for consecutive goals against Essendon, and belted GWS at their own ground (unfortunately didn't repeat in finals, but the point stands). The wing may be a weak spot, but it's not going to stop us competing for a flag this year

The biggest problem with Roarke he does not have clean hands and because of this is under pressure a lot when he gets the ball. If he had clean hands he would be a lot more damaging. No one in the team goes close to the Bont's clean hands but would love Roarke to learn from him but guess either you have it or you do not.