List Mgmt. McCartin how much more time does he need?

[Kildonan]

Firstly, left me say from the outset that I am aware this is a footy forum and that we have different opinions and we have a right to express those opinions. No dispute there.

Nonetheless I am amazed at the way these types of threads continue to emerge and to be fed by fans, even though we are all looking at things through hindsight and nothing can change what has happened in the past. Saying we should’ve taken Judd over Ball; Bont over Billings and Petracca over McCartin may have merit. However these are not new revelations and have been discussed ad nauseam on forums such as this since 2001, 2013 & 2014 respectively.

So why do people keep bringing these things up? Is it to:

• display superior intelligence and understanding of the game and of recruiting? (which realistically can’t be proven or measured)

• change the results of the draft? (not possible pre the introduction of a working time machine)

• have the recruiters acknowledge their mistakes and apologise to fans? (not gonna happen)

• convince the club to rectify the mistakes by trading out the inferior choice and trading in the preferred choice? (not gonna happen)

• get those who disagree, and who have disagreed on the other hundred occasions the topic has been raised, to now agree? (realistically unlikely to happen)

I’m just not sure what the motives are.

At the end of the day I think we all just want to win that second flag.

But I would bet London to a brick that if and when we do, there will still be someone prepared to start one of these Billings/McCartin mistake threads before the celebrations had even started to cool down

These threads are predictable. Someone feels aggrieved that we are not doing as well as they imagined we would. They make a shallow analysis of our list and assign blame. They then decide to display this aforementioned analytical take for all to see by starting a thread. Almost everybody who sees the thread recognises that the analysis is somewhat lacking in depth and substance and they decide to tell the original poster why they are wrong.
The original poster is now in seventh heaven because they created the controversial thread to get attention and having everyone telling them how wrong they are sustains them somehow. The thread dies off after a while but there is a risk someone (possibly the opening poster) bumps it and it drags on again to the disappointment of most posters.

 

[gringo2011]

These threads are predictable. Someone feels aggrieved that we are not doing as well as they imagined we would. They make a shallow analysis of our list and assign blame. They then decide to display this aforementioned analytical take for all to see by starting a thread. Almost everybody who sees the thread recognises that the analysis is somewhat lacking in depth and substance and they decide to tell the original poster why they are wrong.
The original poster is now in seventh heaven because they created the controversial thread to get attention and having everyone telling them how wrong they are sustains them somehow. The thread dies off after a while but there is a risk someone (possibly the opening poster) bumps it and it drags on again to the disappointment of most posters.

Nah, coming from someone who has lost their s**t this season I can honestly say it's not courting controversy, if I'm negative about things it's a coping mechanism because I place way too much importance on a game that means very little and get way to emotionally invested in it for a man my age. I hide my big footy addiction from my wife and tell her I'm looking up animal pr0n to hide the shame but it's the best place to vent.

 

[RWBlyf]

It's a fair thread, I mean it's just a discussion and we ALL want PMac to turn out. It's a natural emotion for us saints supporters to worry and the obvious has heightened that, we need to see continuity with no injuries and that will do us and paddy the world of good. He's in good hands (Roo).

 

[Grav]

Wait 'til he gets about a half dozen games in a row and watch him explode. Big chance by the end of the year, this thread will be deleted.

 

[austinnn]

I believe with his omission the subject should now be changed.

Obviously, we need to find the best conditions for him to thrive in. I believe he'll improve exponentially once Roo leaves the team, though I'm in no hurry for that to occur, so what can we do in the meantime?

Would dominating the VFL comp for a short run be such a bad thing? He can play the Riewoldt/Gehrig role and let Marshall be his Kosi. Gain confidence in the knowledge that his club are prepared to stand by him no matter how long it takes.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Still better than Boyd. Needs to build a tank though.

 

[Glen Buterol]

I believe with his omission the subject should now be changed.

Obviously, we need to find the best conditions for him to thrive in. I believe he'll improve exponentially once Roo leaves the team, though I'm in no hurry for that to occur, so what can we do in the meantime?

Would dominating the VFL comp for a short run be such a bad thing? He can play the Riewoldt/Gehrig role and let Marshall be his Kosi. Gain confidence in the knowledge that his club are prepared to stand by him no matter how long it takes.

Agree. Paddy, Roo, Bruce & Membrey doesn't work & it's to the detriment of Paddy's development.

 

[Wright 1]

I think he needs another year of development and another pre season to build his tank before we can start to judge him. Give him time, he is still a long way behind Billings in terms of where they should both be at. So stop hating on big Paddy. He has shown us enough in RW&B for us to know he is an extremly talented player.

 

[VDS66]

Straw man.
Noone expects him to dominate. Noone has said that.

The discussion is around whether he has the attributes to make it to the next level up like the players you mentioned. Does he have the physical tools?

What is his ceiling? What kind of player is he? What positions can he play in?

It is a legitimate conversation. These are legitimate questions that I am sure recruiters have all the time when talking about young players.

By all means let's have the conversation. But the thread title implies how much longer do we allow him to reach his potential before giving up on him. 2 different issues.

Also, the OP contributes nothing but negative derision of certain players so cannot be taken seriously.

Ultimate troll thread imo.

 

[Significant]

I am not worried the slightest about Paddy. Has shown his talent and projects as a very good key forward in the future. Will be infinitely better once Riewoldt is moved on and he and Members can share that roaming forward role.

The results he has been providing just aren't up to AFL standard and thats okay for a young key forward, however in a team such as ours where finals should be on the radar you can't hold kids on these performances like a Charlie Curnow, Eric Hipwood or Josh Schache.

He needed to be dropped and he is the type of kid who will come out all guns blazing in the VFL like he has in the past. He is the type of player whereby if he has only kicked 2 goals for the game, but Marshall has kicked 4 and Battle 3, he will see that as a win for the team.

We have a very good young key forward on our list with Paddy, and I would rather have him as he is now than not have him. Its that simple. Just be patient and watch him grow.

 

[plugger66]

Still better than Boyd. Needs to build a tank though.

Well he isn't but either way it doesn't help us if Boyd is worse. Paddy needs to get fit so he can get to most contests and also apply pressure without the ball. He has a long way to go.

 

[Murraj1966]

Well he isn't but either way it doesn't help us if Boyd is worse. Paddy needs to get fit so he can get to most contests and also apply pressure without the ball. He has a long way to go.

He is about on par with Boyd and by the end of their careers will blitz him.

My only worry with Paddy is his fitness and injury management. 58% TOG was a huge worry last week he needs a spell in the VFL before coming back for the Geelong game

 

[plugger66]

He is about on par with Boyd and by the end of their careers will blitz him.

My only worry with Paddy is his fitness and injury management. 58% TOG was a huge worry last week he needs a spell in the VFL before coming back for the Geelong game

No idea if he will blitz him. Hope he does but Boyd was in the top 6 in two finals. Paddy wouldn't have been in the top 6 in any game so Boyd is clearly ahead at the moment.

 

[Significant]

I would also say that forward set ups this year has really reverted back to frontal pressure with 3-4 pressure forwards being played in the team (see Richmond, Power, Collingwood, etc.).

Some teams such as Cats, Eagles, Kangas play the 3 tall forwards usually, so there is scope, but I would think that good results can assure you of keeping that balance, while dropping a forward for a pressuring small is being reverted to for teams to change up their forward set-ups which aren't working on both the offense and defence.

 

[Roadto2018]

Played well in the west and if Roo didn't get up for Brisbane he probably kicks his 2-3 maybe more and there's none of this crap. As I've mentioned before, we won't see the best of Paddy until Roo is finished, until then just be patient.

 

[King_Steele]

Played well in the west and if Roo didn't get up for Brisbane he probably kicks his 2-3 maybe more and there's none of this crap. As I've mentioned before, we won't see the best of Paddy until Roo is finished, until then just be patient.

+1.

Also needs to play with a bit more intensity, love the big fella.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

No idea if he will blitz him. Hope he does but Boyd was in the top 6 in two finals. Paddy wouldn't have been in the top 6 in any game so Boyd is clearly ahead at the moment.

Paddy's game played as a key forward are vastly superior to any games that Boyd has played as a key forward.

Boyd played one decent game in the ruck & one very good game in the ruck.

We may as well compare how well Paddy has gone to how well Sam Durdin has gone. Two players, two totally different positions & roles.

Absolutely nothing to worry about with Paddy. Great hands & I can't remember a key forward with better field kicking skills. Then rest will come in time.


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[plugger66]

Played well in the west and if Roo didn't get up for Brisbane he probably kicks his 2-3 maybe more and there's none of this crap. As I've mentioned before, we won't see the best of Paddy until Roo is finished, until then just be patient.

Not sure I understand how Roo playing mainly up the ground huts Paddy. Someone even said today that Roo playing forward will help Bruce. It confuses me. I would suggest Roo playing as he is at the moment is having little influence on Paddys form. I think is just not playing that well and we are hoping for excuses.

 

[Periphery]

I found an article that states having diabetes can make athletes more susceptible to concussion and higher risk of future problems.

Read this article it has some interesting information... After reading this. If its true. Im actually surprised we drafted a big pack marking forward with type 1 diabetes.

http://www.gamechangerexpert.com/di...rotection-prevention-game-plan-for-diabetics/

"Diabetics cannot withstand head impacts as well as those who are non-diabetic. This is because brain cells in diabetics have a very poor ability to use glucose and all diabetics tend to be deficient in magnesium. Magnesium is critical to ATP and energy production. In diabetes, since the brain has a poor ability to use energy, this makes the brain more sensitive to the effects of excitatory neurotransmitters like glutamate, which are released in massive amounts following a concussion."

That article and website is bullshit snake oil salesman crap.

This is from the bio of the guy that wrote that article:

"As The Brain Man, Neuroplastician, Chris has designed Proprietary Neuroplasticity Brain Optimization Programs synergistically combining advanced Neuroscience, Brain Imaging, Neurotechnologies, Brain Nutritional Science, Quantum Physics, Quantum Biology, Neuro-Linguistic Programming, Hypnosis, Cogntive Psychology, Strength Training, Fitness, Health with Ancient Advanced Martial Arts and Medicial Healing Systems of Qigong, Tai Chi & Traditional Chinese Medicine, into simple, actionable programs, customized to optimize your unique brain, body and performance. Chris brings complex science and disciplines into simple, understandable teachings, strategies and practices that you can use to transform your Brain, your Health, your Life, NOW."

 

[plugger66]

Paddy's game played as a key forward are vastly superior to any games that Boyd has played as a key forward.

Boyd played one decent game in the ruck & one very good game in the ruck.

We may as well compare how well Paddy has gone to how well Sam Durdin has gone. Two players, two totally different positions & roles.

Absolutely nothing to worry about with Paddy. Great hands & I can't remember a key forward with better field kicking skills. Then rest will come in time.


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Sorry but I wasn't the one comparing them. Maybe you need to write to the person who mentioned him first.

 

[Roadto2018]

Not sure I understand how Roo playing mainly up the ground huts Paddy. Someone even said today that Roo playing forward will help Bruce. It confuses me. I would suggest Roo playing as he is at the moment is having little influence on Paddys form. I think is just not playing that well and we are hoping for excuses.

I'm saying it from the perspective of level 3 behind the goals last week, Paddy did lead and present but we went to Roo at EVERY opportunity even if he was in a 2/3 on 1 which was the case more often than not, I was frustrated with it as he often had space on the lead, so I can't imagine how frustrated Paddy was. Having said that, atm as we obviously will always target roo, Paddy is better off playing in the two and really honing his game and kicking bags so when it is his time he's ready to kill it for us.

He had a poor game last week but what could've been an excellent one the week before, does this mean he's not playing well? I'm not sure. As I said I feel if Roo didn't get up for the Brisbane game then Paddy gets more of the ball and has a better game and likely hits the scoreboard.

Either way, I don't think we need to panic. Yes it's a bit difficult seeing Petracca have a good game last week and Paddy not but anyone panicking about if it was the right choice or not is being very premature, wait till we've seen all Paddy can give us which imo will be a lot.

 

[Kildonan]

That article and website is bullshit snake oil salesman crap.

This is from the bio of the guy that wrote that article:

"As The Brain Man, Neuroplastician, Chris has designed Proprietary Neuroplasticity Brain Optimization Programs synergistically combining advanced Neuroscience, Brain Imaging, Neurotechnologies, Brain Nutritional Science, Quantum Physics, Quantum Biology, Neuro-Linguistic Programming, Hypnosis, Cogntive Psychology, Strength Training, Fitness, Health with Ancient Advanced Martial Arts and Medicial Healing Systems of Qigong, Tai Chi & Traditional Chinese Medicine, into simple, actionable programs, customized to optimize your unique brain, body and performance. Chris brings complex science and disciplines into simple, understandable teachings, strategies and practices that you can use to transform your Brain, your Health, your Life, NOW."

Not evidenced based - not science based - but uses sciency sounding words and mixes some truth into the fantasy so as to seem legitimate

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Paddy needs to stop showing us how wide his tooth gap is, then he'll be right.

 

[Periphery]

Not evidenced based - not science based - but uses sciency sounding words and mixes some truth into the fantasy so as to seem legitimate

Yep. I've done a quick online search of academic peer-reviewed literature and as far as I could see there was no immediately evident established link between diabetes and increased concussions.

Note: I have no medical education and it was far from a comprehensive search. But even that's better than that website.

 

[saint66au]

Very very few KPF have a huge impact after 20 games...least of all less mobile ones like Paddy. Im not worried at all...and any comparisions with Petracca are silly.

Id rather compare Billings with Petracca.