Melbourne and North

[Biffinator]

Comrades.

Recently, we have had an influx of North supporters onto our board - they are, of course, welcome - but I am increasingly becoming bored with the oft-express sentiment - "wow, isn't it going to be great watching two young teams fight it out over the next few years." Or indeed, undue attention being paid to Round 22.

Well, yes and no. But the real battle lies elsewhere.

An aphorism first: if you don't do things differently, why should you expect the result to vary?

Melbourne was once a Tier 1 club but over the 46 years, it has become Tier 3, sitting adjacent to the likes of North. Life is tough. There ain't much fat on either of us. A few bad years in the current dynamic and, well, the Greyhound buses will be showing up outside.

Now both clubs can accept the status quo and hope to have "a few good years" and fatten up somewhat as a consequence, or, better still, change the game per se.

Our deal with the City of Casey is the most strategic thing we have done in 40 odd years and to my mind, it was more important than the Debt Demolition, vital though that was. It remains to be seen if it will be successful or otherwise. I have, however, lived in Casey and there are kids everywhere (including Corey the Party Animal!). It is a catchment area par excellence.

Like us, North has new facilities - tick. Dedicated North supporters like Brother SLF are rightly calling for a similar debt demolition - ok, another tick, though it remains to be seen if they can nullify the debt. Their AGM will occur in January (?), and it would be a brave person who predicts there will be more black ink in it than red.

I am not being boastful in any way but here is the real question: what else is North doing to change the game, and all the more so as their membership dropped so dramatically in 2010 after a so-called 'good season'?

• Re-turfing Arden Street? Errrr, nope.
• A few Friday night games and fewer matches against the interstate teams - well, yeah, sort of, may be, dunno, perhaps. North won two premierships in the 1990s and for all their success, their supporter-base was not transformed as a result (check out how few extra members they picked up after 1999).

I don't like North. That's my right. But I recognise they are part of the fabric of our great game. I want them to survive, but that's not going to happen if they keep up the moth-ridden approach of "let's have a good season this year and we'll be right."

Echoing the words of John Kennedy - North, do something. Do Something !!!! If the status quo remains, sooner or later the hearse will roll up at Arden Street dressed up in the livery of an interstate Greyhound bus.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Supermercado]

Speaking of Debt Demolition I hope the Dogs come up with a better name for their version than the "Bulldoze the Debt" name that was being waved around yesterday. Marketing department need the sack if that ends up being their rally cry.

 

[Captain Jack]

good thoughts, agree with them.

 

[d33my]

TBCH, I've worried enough about the survival of my own club over the last few years, without having to be concerned with others. What North do or don't do doesn't bother me, but I would like them to stay in Melbourne.

 

[Flawed Genius]

I'm a little bit confused about the point of this thread.

Is it questioning how we are going to increase our membership?

 

[RedLegs#5]

I want to know how many North supporters actually cared when we were struggling? All they seem to do is try and cut Melbourne down due to their insecurities.

As another poster stated..I've been far too concerned with the Dees finances to worry about other clubs. Although our debt is gone, we still need to focus on building a stronger financial basis for years to come. That's what's important.

 

[Rudeurrection]

Comrades.

Recently, we have had an influx of North supporters onto our board - they are, of course, welcome - but I am increasingly becoming bored with the oft-express sentiment - "wow, isn't it going to be great watching too yong teams fight it out over the next few years." Or indeed, undue attention being paid to Round 22.

Well, yes and no. But the real battle lies elsewhere.

An aphorism first: if you don't do things differently, why should you expect the result to vary?

Melbourne was once a Tier 1 club but over the 46 years, it has become Tier 3, sitting adjacent to the likes of North. Life is tough. There ain't much fat on either of us. A few bad years in the current dynamic and, well, the Greyhound buses will be showing up outside.

Now both clubs can accept the status quo and hope to have "a few good years" and fatten up somewhat as a consequence, or, better still, change the game per se.

Our deal with the City of Casey is the most strategic thing we have done in 40 odd years and to my mind, it was more important than the Debt Demolition, vital though that was. It remains to be seen if it will be successful or otherwise. I have, however, lived in Casey and there are kids everywhere (including Corey the Party Animal!). It is a catchment area par excellence.

Like us, North has new facilities - tick. Dedicated North supporters like Brother SLF are rightly calling for a similar debt demolition - ok, another tick, though it remains to be seen if they can nullify the debt. Their AGM will occur in January (?), and it would be a brave person who predicts there will be more black ink in it than red.

I am not here to revel in the situation but here is the real question: what else are they doing to change the game, and all the more so as their membership dropped so dramatically in 2010?

• Re-turfing Arden Street? Errrr, nope.
• A few Friday night games and fewer matches against the interstate teams - well, yeah, sort of, may be, dunno, perhaps. North won two premierships in the 1990s and for all their success, their supporter-base was not transformed as a result (check out how few extra members they picked up after 1999).

I don't like North. That's my right. But I recognise they are part of the fabric of our great game. I want them to survive, but that's not going to happen if they keep up the moth-ridden approach of "let's have a good season this year and we'll be right."

Echoing the words of John Kennedy - North, do something. Do Something !!!! If the status quo remains, sooner or later the hearse will roll up at Arden Street dressed up in the livery of an interstate Greyhound bus.

What are your thoughts?

For the lazy people out there who cant be bothered reading all this allow me to summarise Biff's point which is very good:

-Melbourne are set for the future.
-Norf are screwed.

 

[Groggyk]

Should have gone t.... err, sorry, .....put this on the North Board.

 

[Biffinator]

I'm a little bit confused about the point of this thread.

Is it questioning how we are going to increase our membership?

Comrade FG - I responded in kind to a North supporter in the Hale thread, and Deestroy rightly thought that both posts were veering off track and deleted them. It made better sense in the original context, where it was trying to parry the view that "here at North we have a promising young list (which is true enough) and therefore a really bright future."

Such a methodology might have cut it back in 1983 but no longer. Yes, Hawthorn has been mocked for becoming 'Tassie' but at least they have tried something different to keep the wolf from the door - and all power to them. Their vast supporter-base notwithstanding, even they have changed their modus operandi. In a modest way, we have tried to emulate them.

I cannot see anything that bespeaks strategy to me coming from Eugene or JB. Ballarat, to my mind, was a great idea, provided you can unshackle yourselves from Uncle Collo and don't emulate your ****-ups in Sydney and elsewhere. But what has happened to it?

And PS, I spend an infinitesimal amount of time thinking about North, but when a dill comes onto our Board with a dumb-arse view, he warrants a bullet.

 

[stickman11]

I'm a little bit confused about the point of this thread.

Is it questioning how we are going to increase our membership?

The point is, why don't you insecure posters put your pointless boring posts on your own board.

 

[BigSexc]

north is my most hated team. smug for no reason. pies are smug with reason - thats why my hatred for north pips them

 

[cannons]

Yeah, Brad Scott comes across as unbelievably smug, which is surprising given that he has achieved little to warrant such an attitude.

Further, his constant talk about Norf's youngsters being the greatest out there, as well as his insecurity about the fact that Melbourne's kids receive more press, is utterly ridiculous.

The guy needs to take up a hobby instead of spewing mindless drivel.

 

[Super Demon]

North are such a nothing club


Their supporters (all 8 of them) constantly overate themselves and deride us as being inferior to them (yeah right)

They have a dept of over 4 Million dollars and yet all they did on their board was mock us when we eradicated the debt that threatened our future earlier this year.

They simply have no plan to eradicate the debt that one day will most likely see them driven off in the hearse that brother Biff has mentioned.

We have taken the first steps in becoming a power of the AFL again.

North exist on a day to day basis, happy to be just er well....just be North

 

[rhaz]

I enjoyed seeing the North supporters continually attempting to make fun of and talk shit about Melbourne on their board, whilst we kept quiet over here and talked about our own club. I was hoping it'd stay that way but i knew it was only a matter of time before something like this popped up!

I just wonder if North supporters in real life are the same as they are on BF.

 

[DemonBlood]

Oh don't forget they have the most promising list with the likes of Warren, Thomas, Wells, Harvey.. and Bastinac should of won Rising Star

The rate their going they'll be premiers next year...

 

[WattsGoodForYou]

There is nothing pleasing about watching North in a neutral game. All other clubs you can get into slightly or admire a certain players brilliance (i.e Pavlich at Freo or Brown at Brisbane). However, when looking for a 'hero' of North i have always struggled. Currently Brent Harvey is their champion, however he is shocking into himself, a diver and a stain on the fabric of the game. His persona sums up what i hate about North. Complains he gets it bad and when he gets something slightly better than 50% good acts like he is God herself.

The competition would be better off without smug supporters like Norths. I completely agree with BS on this

north is my most hated team. smug for no reason. pies are smug with reason - thats why my hatred for north pips them

Well said I must say.

 

[DemonBlood]

The competition would be better off without smug supporters like Norths. I completely agree with BS on this Well said I must say.

I was at the Rnd22 game sitting near their cheersquad.. They arn't too fond of Jurrah out-marking, out-roving, and kicking a lazy 5 straight against their mob.

Another point is, great backlines win finals.. i think we have the edge.

 

[RedLegs#5]

I was at the Rnd22 game sitting near their cheersquad.. They arn't too fond of Jurrah out-marking, out-roving, and kicking a lazy 5 straight against their mob.

Another point is, great backlines win finals.. i think we have the edge.

As do all other clubs seeing as though North will cease to exist soon.

 

[Demon 16]

I'm a little bit confused about the point of this thread.

Is it questioning how we are going to increase our membership?

Despite the recent brinksmanship between our 2 sides on here - this is not a pot shot so just hear me out.

Biffs post was another great one I reckon. Hes asking us to consider past the current day to day operational runnings and current lists at the clubs, and consider Norths business plan for the long term. Hes commenting that we have been pro-active and successful so far with some recent changes. What are North doing - or what would we suggest?

I reckon Melbourne has a fair hidden supporter base out there given partly its lack of true success for a sustained period, and partly due to the demographic of the supporter base.

Im certain that our new, dynamic approach at executive level has put us on a strong path - Biffs question is what are North doing? We were lucky in that we have a longer, more significant tradition (being the innaugural club), a larger, wealthier supporter base, and of course mostly - our name of 'the Melbourne Football Club' will afford us some additional protection from the games heirarchy that it doesnt seem North are receiving.

Something radical will have do be done imo. The nature of this sport doesnt lend itself to playing 50+ games per year, and we are already a laughing stock in that the fixture does not allow 2 matches between each team in a season. This will only become harder with additional clubs joining - so unless we move to a divisionary system, some smaller Melbourne based clubs will surely have to go..

If I was on Norths board I would be looking at aligning with country Victoria - its not that far from the current clubs identity in that towns such as Ballarat, Bendigo, Shepparton, Wangarrata are north of Melbourne. They would obviously retain some strong links with the city, but frankly, it just doesnt seem to be working the way its going atm.

 

[Flawed Genius]

Fair post. And in the words of Samuel L Jackson - allow me to retort.

I think the constant rejection of interstate offers (Tasmania, the Gold Coast, home games in Canberra, Perth) is a sign to the members we do have that we're committed to staving off whatever advances the AFL make towards re-locating the club. This is good, because it demonstrates strong principles and roots. Shows that if you invest your money in a Melbourne-based club, it will continue to be a Melbourne-based club and your investment will grow. Not sure about our profit/loss this year, but I'm willing to bet it's not a sharp drop. Probably won't be a sharp increase either, but not a massive loss.

No matter the hate shown towards the board or the way the club has been viewed in the past, you can't deny that Eugene Arocca and Brayshaw have moved the club forward, in a variety of areas. I'll repeat some no-doubt watered-down lines - the new facilities are outstanding, and probably a major reason why McKinley nominated North as his preferred club. They're a good place to manage the young list we currently have (note - not a judgement on Melbourne's list who I think have fantastic young players) and develop that list into a formidable group of players. Arocca and Brayshaw have breathed life into what was a club on its knees, being defended by the members from the AFL.

The Ballarat initiative that Biff mentioned is another good point - an as yet untapped area in regards to clubs and potential memberships. Ballarat is a pretty big city and one that I think the board has shown good thinking in attempting to explore. There's no harm in trying new things, as your club's Debt Demolition showed. You wiped off your debt and now other clubs are doing the same thing - the Dogs an example.

Biff's OP mentioned that we're placing all our faith in a young list and a new coach - I don't think there's any harm in doing that. Sure, we might get shot down by outsiders and the like, which is always going to happen - but you have to place your faith in something. Ballarat is probably our next big move - the country Victoria ploy you mentioned - outside of that, faith in a good young list and continually proving doubters wrong will do me. The club has shown that it can survive without an abundance of members, which is obviously detrimental to funds, but not necessarily fatal.

In any case, I admire tremendously the work that Jim Stynes has done for your club, even the inspiration he's brought to your list. They played for a purpose, they played for a reason, they played as a unit. And when they do that, they're a good football side. I only hope that other administrations around the league learn from what Stynes has been able to do.

 

[Demon 16]

Thanks FG - I was a bit worried my 3rd paragraph might be taken the worng way, but I was really just pointing out we were lukcy in that we had some things that made it easier for the Dees when we were in a bit of trouble. Hopefully North can find some strengths to draw from as well - but like I said, I suspect something fairly radical will be needed.

Im still a bit worried for North - present, quality young list excluded. As sponsorship dollars in AFL increase, the big spenders are going to want an audience - and low memberships, tv ratings and attendances at games are going to hurt alot in a multi-team town.

Arocca and Brayshaw would be loved by the diehards over at Arden St, but I reckon a clinical, astute, detatched businessman would be preparing a plan B for North, just in case.

 

[Flawed Genius]

While I won't deny you have the "prestige" and "heritage" that comes with being one of the oldest clubs in the AFL (or the oldest, it's late) and that is a factor in determining that you won't ever be relocated - I would argue that North's members and supporters have had a much bigger hand in ensuring that their club remains their club than the members at Melbourne have had in keeping their club in Melbourne (not that it's ever been threatened).

As for you being worried about North - you'll excuse me if I'm slightly sceptical. We've survived this long in the modern era without an abundance of memberships, prime-time games or insanely high television audiences - I don't foresee it to be a problem now or in the near future. The club has shown time and time again that it is resilient under pressure from administration and will not be forced into making decisions that are detrimental towards its future. We do love Arocca and Brayshaw - and not being a board member - I trust their vision and plan for the future of my club absolutely.

 

[Pykie]

Thanks FG - I was a bit worried my 3rd paragraph might be taken the worng way, but I was really just pointing out we were lukcy in that we had some things that made it easier for the Dees when we were in a bit of trouble. Hopefully North can find some strengths to draw from as well - but like I said, I suspect something fairly radical will be needed.

Im still a bit worried for North - present, quality young list excluded. As sponsorship dollars in AFL increase, the big spenders are going to want an audience - and low memberships, tv ratings and attendances at games are going to hurt alot in a multi-team town.

Arocca and Brayshaw would be loved by the diehards over at Arden St, but I reckon a clinical, astute, detatched businessman would be preparing a plan B for North, just in case.

Membership, sponsorship etc is all relative to a teams success.

We didn't have a problem attracting crowds and membership during the 90's, St Kilda was a basket case at the start of the decade, they now have mid 40k members due to their on field success.


Biff's opening post is incorrect as well, Brayshaw and Arocca have already declared a decent operating profit for 2010, they have ensured one every year they have been in charge.

We have a $20m facility, that far outweighs what you have in Casey at the moment, so I can't see how you can bundle the two in the same success "pile" personally.

The club has taken a staunch moral standing on Pokies with the club, whilst most of you may not agree with it, I'd love to see a break down of most clubs in the AFL, and their respective revenue due to Pokies, in most cases it would be huge.

It's also a fairly high horse to be standing on, the debt demolition is a outstanding achievement by your club, but the way you have pouted through your opening post Biff, you would have me think your club attained a debt free ledger due to operational profits over the Stynes period.

The Bulldogs will have the bulldoze debt campaign and North's wont be too far behind, I imagine, they are fantastic initiatives by the clubs to eradicate the past misdoings of bad hierarchies.

Unless you think that North supporters fall under the stereotype labled by the general AFL population for our club?


Since Brayshaw/Arocca have come to the club they have delivered a facility that most in the AFL thought never possible, have returned ownership of the club to the members and have turned a operating deficit into a an operating profit each of their years in charge.


The ownership of the club now with the members will ensure that the club is never relocated, unless you envisage the members will vote for it?

After the GC sager, that isn't going to happen.

The only chance of North going anywhere is if the AFL decides to strip its license. Can you see that happening?

Even then, class actions would follow.

 

[Spirit of 39]

We have a $20m facility, that far outweighs what you have in Casey at the moment, so I can't see how you can bundle the two in the same success "pile" personally.

Aami Park says hi!

 

[stickman11]

We have a $20m facility, that far outweighs what you have in Casey at the moment, so I can't see how you can bundle the two in the same success "pile" personally.

Aami Park says hi!

Melbourne say high - North Melbourne says Noth Hobart???

Norf have to cpmpare everything to us - the feel too insecure is suppose.