List Mgmt. Mini rebuild - what do we need

[St Kilda Death]

How about new line coaches and the patience to actually wait until the end of the CURRENT rebuild? Our list is massively skewed to young and inexperienced players (aka, players under a 100 games) You cannot honestly compete in the top 4 without that core of experience. It will come.

Agree, but i worry about us losing too much in the meantime, and creating a losing culture like melb/gc/carlton.
Its not as bad as the doom and gloom on this website, we are all just sick of waiting.

Current crop will improve, but i wouldnt mind getting in at least 1 experienced mid.
Fyfe, martin, sloane, kelly all would have been perfect.
Get gaff... or keep waiting.

 

[AirWinmar]

Hi All,

As we start to prepare/review the Saints' year I remember hearing a story that after his first year at Windy Hill, Sheedy sat down with a trusted few and looked at the key elements that were needed to go to the top, so I thought we could have a go. Also thinking about new zones and other possible changes such as less rotations.

While my knowledge of modern football is almost non-existent I am interested to hear what my more learned fellow (BigFooty saints supporter sufferers) think. Note with new zones and less rotations, stay at home forwards could make a comeback!

Here are my thoughts:

Defence:
One gorilla stopping FB
One good intercept mark (tallish and fast) - takes third tall
One small fast small forward stopper
two fast tough back flankers with excellent kicking skills to start attack
One tall stopper/good mark for CHB

What do we have?
Brown (short term but ? future - maybe Goddard)
Roberton/Gilbert (injured but ? future - maybe Logan)
Geary/Rice (so so but future - maybe McKenzie but don't like his disposal)
White/Webster/Paton (this area not bad)
Carlisle (elite - future Clavarino?)


Attack:
Big marking forward to bust packs - possible resting ruck
Linking CHF
Third forward one-on-one target cover a lot of ground to find space
Three fast footman with precision kicking and finishing - rotating with the middle

What do we have?
Paddy/Marshall (not there yet but I am hopeful)
Bruce/Battle (if Bruce can hold marks - are they good enough to deliver the next pass? )
Membrey/Battle/Acres
Long/Billings/Gresh (huge talent/potential here)


In the middle:
Ruck who can tap to advantage and help around the ground (rest forward)
one quality onball stopper
one inside winner
one who is quick out of the middle
two fast wingers who spread and hit forward targets

What do we have?
.... Two half ruckmen don't make a whole
Steele
Armo/Dunstan/Ross (all a bit slow - Future Coffield/Hunter)
Steven/Freeman/Acres (Steven disposal can be a problem, Freeman unlikely to make it)
Sinclair/Phillips/Savage (Sinclair best reader of the play and kick, other two not great delivery)


Out:
Not a big fan of Newness, Weller, wright, Minch or Lonie being able to take us forward.


What we need:
While we have a lot go "good" players we need to gain elite through trade, draft or development.
A ruckman that can be good at the bounce and around the ground.
Better disposal across the board.

Awesome summary. Only things i would change is i still like Newnes and Savage is actually a good kick - its more his decision making. But if played on the wing he might not bomb it as much without the referred pressure of bombing it out of the backline. Also hoping for Freeman, looks to be a potential gun and at his best would be exactly what we need in the centre

 

[Remboy]

Pace and skills. This year has been a shocker but at our best in the previous two seasons for me I felt if we just had two or three jets in the middle we could be a very good side.

 

[Txiki]

This is an old thread but still seems quite relevant as we head towards the trade, free agency and draft periods. The club has stated a desire to recruit some experienced players in a bid to improve the list.

I suppose I don’t see the need for a mini rebuild. It’s been about five years since we started but most clubs are constantly building a list that can challenge for a flag. I don’t think there is a point at which you can say a rebuild is over and I don’t think ours is finished yet. I’m of the belief that it is too early to tell if this rebuild has failed. Five years on, we are back to where we started ladder position-wise but the list has almost completely turned over and the average age has been reduced significantly.

If you look at our (any) list, it can be broken up into roughly three categories: 18-24, 25-30 and 30+.

Our 30+ group is one of the worst in the competition. Brown, Geary and Armitage are our only players in this group and all three should be pushed out of the 22 next season. Leadership is what they provide but it isn’t really on field leadership IMO. Only Brown has flag success out of this group too.

The 25-30 group is the group that wins you games of footy. They are the consistent performers at their physical and mental peak. This group is the most important for success in the current season but our group is lacking in a few areas. We’ve got, and I’m being generous here, three players that would be considered A grade. Steven, Carlisle and Ross. Below that we’ve got blokes like Savage, Weller, Roberton, Bruce, Webster, Newnes, Hickey and a few others that either play well or struggle or were injured for the entire year. It’s clear that this group, in particular those from the second sub group, are a huge issue. They should be able to bring consistency and drive standards but most are losing spots to kids throughout the season. It’s a huge issue for us and I’m glad the club is bringing in some players in this age bracket.

The 18-24 category is the reason I’m not worried about the future. I think that if you look at our best here, there is a lot of talent that will eventually win us games consistently as they mature and move into the next bracket. Gresham, Billings, Steele, Acres, Clark, Coffield, Marshall, Membrey, perhaps Paddy, Battle, Long, McKenzie and any new draftees. It’s an exciting mini list that will comprise almost half the 22 when they move into the next bracket.

This was a long post but I think the short point is that our rebuild should be judged in another 5 or so years. We obviously need to develop these kids well and they need to be helped/guided by the older players (Hannebery a big help here) but I’m not concerned about our future. I think we’ve got it mostly right, no doubt with a few mistakes.

 

[hangdog]

This is an old thread but still seems quite relevant as we head towards the trade, free agency and draft periods. The club has stated a desire to recruit some experienced players in a bid to improve the list.

I suppose I don’t see the need for a mini rebuild. It’s been about five years since we started but most clubs are constantly building a list that can challenge for a flag. I don’t think there is a point at which you can say a rebuild is over and I don’t think ours is finished yet. I’m of the belief that it is too early to tell if this rebuild has failed. Five years on, we are back to where we started ladder position-wise but the list has almost completely turned over and the average age has been reduced significantly.

If you look at our (any) list, it can be broken up into roughly three categories: 18-24, 25-30 and 30+.

Our 30+ group is one of the worst in the competition. Brown, Geary and Armitage are our only players in this group and all three should be pushed out of the 22 next season. Leadership is what they provide but it isn’t really on field leadership IMO. Only Brown has flag success out of this group too.

The 25-30 group is the group that wins you games of footy. They are the consistent performers at their physical and mental peak. This group is the most important for success in the current season but our group is lacking in a few areas. We’ve got, and I’m being generous here, three players that would be considered A grade. Steven, Carlisle and Ross. Below that we’ve got blokes like Savage, Weller, Roberton, Bruce, Webster, Newnes, Hickey and a few others that either play well or struggle or were injured for the entire year. It’s clear that this group, in particular those from the second sub group, are a huge issue. They should be able to bring consistency and drive standards but most are losing spots to kids throughout the season. It’s a huge issue for us and I’m glad the club is bringing in some players in this age bracket.

The 18-24 category is the reason I’m not worried about the future. I think that if you look at our best here, there is a lot of talent that will eventually win us games consistently as they mature and move into the next bracket. Gresham, Billings, Steele, Acres, Clark, Coffield, Marshall, Membrey, perhaps Paddy, Battle, Long, McKenzie and any new draftees. It’s an exciting mini list that will comprise almost half the 22 when they move into the next bracket.

This was a long post but I think the short point is that our rebuild should be judged in another 5 or so years. We obviously need to develop these kids well and they need to be helped/guided by the older players (Hannebery a big help here) but I’m not concerned about our future. I think we’ve got it mostly right, no doubt with a few mistakes.

What a great breakdown. That's why a Gaff or Shiel could make such an impact. Hannebery could do just that if he can get fit enough.

Roberton was a crucial player to us before this season so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and Webster had a great season but sometimes was asked to play as a key def because our coach is a moron.

Hopefully we look at VFL level for some blokes too (Collins from Werribee for instance and I'd love us to give Brede Seccull and Hayden McLean from Sandy)

 

[SaintsSeptember]

No chance we would get anything in a trade for Longer. I don't think any team would pick him up even as a rookie.

May need to make 1-2 hard calls on some players that actually have some value.

I think someone would pick him up as a rookie. Even Joel Tippet and Adam Pattison styayed on lists for years, break glass in case of emergencies.