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Mongrel - who has it who doesn't ? Does it Matter?

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I just wanted to bump this thread, I'm interested in where people think we are genuinely at with this in terms of future premiership aspirations? We all have different views on what it takes to win premierships, but my opinion is that it is the leadership and drive for excellence of the leadership core of the top 8-10 players that dictates whether you succeed or not (with some luck and good list management with the right age profile thrown in).

Carlton, this century, has never had enough of a core of experienced players with "mongrel" that ever really have looked like achieving ultimate success. 2009-2011, we played some exciting footy and had some genuine talent but we never really had that pure leadership mongrel and drive for excellence that Hawthorn and Geelong had. Judd had mongrel aplenty, Carazzo too. But to me we just didn't really have enough players who wanted it enough, players like Joel Selwood who have more competitive spirit than a huge chunk of our list back then combined.

Cripps - Quite possibly the best guy we could possibly have to captain us, thank god he is ours.

Docherty - As above, an outstanding person to have. Unfortunately there has to be a serious question mark on what he can do going forward with his 2 ACL's.

Walsh - I've seen enough. He hadn't played a bad game in the 2 years prior to joining us and is now delivering the same for us, you don't do that without an insatiable appetite for excellence and inner mongrel.

I'm going to stop there as I'm interested in others people's opinions for the rest of the young guys, there's a huge amount of young talent there now, unlike we have ever had for as long as I can remember. Do we have too many high draft pick types and not enough role playing mongrels?

It's easy to get mongrel ****heads, it's the mongrel within our future leadership core of better players that I am discussing. How do you think we rate?
McKay is getting there; he needs to want to punish an opponent for even contemplating underestimating him. He's more golden retriever than rottweiler at the moment. Gov has it in spades; what he needs is to become properly fit, to allow him more of an influence than a 10 minute patch, despite those ten minute patches being some of the best footy we play at the moment.

Weitering has it, just quietly. Taking on the reins down back. He's not an obvious candidate, but when he came back through the VFL he dominated those games and showed real leadership and ownership of that team. He's doing it in the ones now, and he's perfectly willing to wear contact to get his will done.

Given that the last game he played was not one of his better ones, LOB has mongrel in spades. He's a work in progress at the moment, and he's prone to dropping his head, but we saw last year that there's utterly no quit in that kid. You can belt him around, you can knock him off the ball, you can shrug him off in a tackle (even now, because he's still a featherweight in what is at the very least a middleweight division, if not a heavyweight) but what you cannot do is stop him from trying, over and over again, to do the team thing. He makes a mistake, watch him beeline the ball and the ball carrier like it insulted his family.

Other than that, Walsh is an obvious one; that mark he took where Witts came through seconds later was what got him the rising star nomination. He's probably not going to have the highlight reel of Rozee or Rankine, but wearing that level of impact for your team is the epitome of our sport. Casboult is another, but not in a 'rub it in your face' way; he's not the best player, and he's not what you'd think about when you're dividing the team into mongrels or not. He definitely doesn't hurt people the way someone his size could. What he is is the distillation of want to improve; he's been given very simple instructions all the way through his career as to his path to improvement. He got fitter, fit enough to be a ruckman; he bulked up, became the best contested mark in the comp (at least, before Harry nicked it); and he beat himself into the ground to remake an appalling ball drop to become a fairly competent set shot over the last 3-4 years. We forget how many hits he's worn for us over the last few years, and before he broke his ribs last year he was absolutely flying.

Plow is quietly determined, and he genuinely doesn't brook any shit, don't know if he's got much mongrel in him yet. Ditto Jones. Setterfield does; wants to hurt everyone he tackles. Fish gets thrown around like a six year old, gets up with a smirk and waltzes off with the ball faster than you can blink.

I view the leaders of the team going forward as Weitering, Cripps, Docherty, Walsh, Gov, without any inside knowledge. All of these people bring something different to the table, and all of them have the steel to want to succeed. I'm pretty happy with the state of things as they are at the moment, but what I'd really like is for someone to locate a forward pocket with goalsense whose tackling technique is equal to their willingness to go the bump. Temper the latter - at least, until a hard block is required - but we probably need a few more down back, and at least 4 more across the forward line and midfield.
 
I reckon mongrel has changed as an intimidation concept.
... which I hate.

Lenny Hayes was a pure a ball player as could be, yet a greater mongrel I have never seen. Wanted it, didn't give a stuff what was in the way, he was going to get there first.
 

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I think Nic Newman has it, game on Sunday showed him make Dunkley earn his mark in the 50, rode him hard into the dirt.
Firing back at that little toenail Libba, think he´s shown it in most games.
Newman impressed me also giving Liberace some stick. But more than just that he plays every ball hard.
 

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McKay is getting there; he needs to want to punish an opponent for even contemplating underestimating him. He's more golden retriever than rottweiler at the moment. Gov has it in spades; what he needs is to become properly fit, to allow him more of an influence than a 10 minute patch, despite those ten minute patches being some of the best footy we play at the moment.

Weitering has it, just quietly. Taking on the reins down back. He's not an obvious candidate, but when he came back through the VFL he dominated those games and showed real leadership and ownership of that team. He's doing it in the ones now, and he's perfectly willing to wear contact to get his will done.

Given that the last game he played was not one of his better ones, LOB has mongrel in spades. He's a work in progress at the moment, and he's prone to dropping his head, but we saw last year that there's utterly no quit in that kid. You can belt him around, you can knock him off the ball, you can shrug him off in a tackle (even now, because he's still a featherweight in what is at the very least a middleweight division, if not a heavyweight) but what you cannot do is stop him from trying, over and over again, to do the team thing. He makes a mistake, watch him beeline the ball and the ball carrier like it insulted his family.

Other than that, Walsh is an obvious one; that mark he took where Witts came through seconds later was what got him the rising star nomination. He's probably not going to have the highlight reel of Rozee or Rankine, but wearing that level of impact for your team is the epitome of our sport. Casboult is another, but not in a 'rub it in your face' way; he's not the best player, and he's not what you'd think about when you're dividing the team into mongrels or not. He definitely doesn't hurt people the way someone his size could. What he is is the distillation of want to improve; he's been given very simple instructions all the way through his career as to his path to improvement. He got fitter, fit enough to be a ruckman; he bulked up, became the best contested mark in the comp (at least, before Harry nicked it); and he beat himself into the ground to remake an appalling ball drop to become a fairly competent set shot over the last 3-4 years. We forget how many hits he's worn for us over the last few years, and before he broke his ribs last year he was absolutely flying.

Plow is quietly determined, and he genuinely doesn't brook any shit, don't know if he's got much mongrel in him yet. Ditto Jones. Setterfield does; wants to hurt everyone he tackles. Fish gets thrown around like a six year old, gets up with a smirk and waltzes off with the ball faster than you can blink.

I view the leaders of the team going forward as Weitering, Cripps, Docherty, Walsh, Gov, without any inside knowledge. All of these people bring something different to the table, and all of them have the steel to want to succeed. I'm pretty happy with the state of things as they are at the moment, but what I'd really like is for someone to locate a forward pocket with goalsense whose tackling technique is equal to their willingness to go the bump. Temper the latter - at least, until a hard block is required - but we probably need a few more down back, and at least 4 more across the forward line and midfield.
I reckon The Gov is going to be an invaluable mentor for both Harry and Charlie when it comes to putting attitude on defenders. You can already see some of the younger guys picking up on his "sass" (mongrel) with the opposition.
 

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Mongrel Moments Round 6:

1. Harry taking a Hawforn player over the boundary and then treading on his fingers as he got up as in accidentally not - loved it.
2. Kreuzer 'stepping' McEvoy and kicking a running goal from outside 50 - vintage Kreuze ...
3. SPS copping an elbow to side of head and getting straight up - loved it - seemed to spark his game as well - instrumental ( again) in getting side going in last 6 minutes
4. Jones' high and sideways mark - fearless
5. Dow just running away from a clearance and then nailing his shot
6. Ed's gut running receive from Harry and goal..

Feel free to add to list...

lack of mongrel moments

Murph's ridiculous attempt at goal after a perfect Daisy handball into clear space
Marchbank's brain fart moment not running ball through goal for a behind
Not manning the mark properly and letting Bruest creep 3 meters improvement from pocket - someone should have pointed and yelled at ump to take notice...
 
The entire team. After being almost 2 goals behind late in the last, and to claw back to within 10cm of winning the game requires inner mongrel; worth more than the 4 points on the day. Thats true mongrel; will hold us in good stead moving forward.
 
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There appears to be a few basic footballing actions/concepts being held up as "mongrel" in here.
It's hard to really quantify but IMO at least we've only really got Cripps in the Viney/Cunnington/Selwood/Hodge category in terms of being an uncompromising bastard on the field.
 

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Mongrel - who has it who doesn't ? Does it Matter?

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