Mongrel - who has it who doesn't ? Does it Matter?

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katmanblue

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Nov 27, 2016
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I have been thinking similar to this regarding Kennedy, he’s a strong overhead mark, he’s strong, good at stoppages and can kick a goal, I see him as having better output than Gov.
What I don’t understand is, if you have a guy, who clearly can’t keep up with the mids and has shown good signs up forward, why you would bring him in to the first team and play him on the wing and try force him in to the midfield.

Kennedy should be playing this role in the 2nds, he should be training this role every week.
It's like they want this team to fail. Beggars belief.
 

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katmanblue

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Nov 27, 2016
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too many tatts
too old
too bad
Yeah yeah yeah. You know what I mean.

Zorko is one of my most despised players. Hate the bloke. But I'd prefer him to some of the weak shits we've had playing for us this last decade.

That type is what I want.

I really don't care if they wanna plastered after the game if they perform. Don't care if they wanna shag someone's missus. I really don't. I don't care what they do off-field.

I want guys like Tich Edwards who tackle to hurt. Blokes like Hodgey who put that blokes head into the point post.

I want a bloke who will pinch and scratch to get to the ball. A bloke who will get in the head of anyone in his way.

A bloke like Mumford.

Give away a couple of frees but make sure the opposition best player is corked early in the game.


fu** playing the right way.

Let's win.
 

forever blue 1

Team Captain
Mar 7, 2021
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Can we dispel this myth that introverts are all nice. All the hardest, meanest bastards that everyone wanted on their team I played with and against were introverts. Being introverted has nothing to do with mongrel. Extroverts are obviously more suited to leadership etc but mongrel is not related to whether you talk a lot and like being the centre of attention or prefer going about your business. As a matter of fact all the idiots and pretenders I played with who went to water whenever there was pressure were extroverts. Loud mouths who got found out every time.

Its almost always the quiet bugger that hurts the most and hits the hardest.

We are 100% missing that Bruce doull type, the guys love him for his effort and passion as he just murders his opponent every week no matter what. Doull was no extrovert... We need killer instinct and internal drive to succeed.
Remember the car drive interview with Sam
Awkward ! Haha
 

Blue Pulse

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Does it matter, at the moment, the way we are playing, no.

From the Port game, I could give votes to 6, maybe 7 players, the rest were going through the motions. It doesn't matter how angry or how mongrel you are, if you don't get 18 blokes on the field all pushing for the same goal, you are always going to struggle.

Back in the day, when I was playing, we amalgamated with another club. There was a bit of rivalry and not a lot of love between the teams even though a number of guys knew each other. The first message given out by the coach: "You don't have to love your team mate, you don't have to drink with him or hang out with him, but for 2 hours a week on Saturday afternoon you are brothers and you will do everything in you power to assist him on the football field, no ifs, no buts." What I see in our "team" (and I could be way off the mark here) is a bunch of individual teams or units, mixed messages, confusion and a serious lack of confidence.

Veterans being played when they shouldn't, injured players being played, it creates a bad or sloppy standard. I would love to hear from Williams, Saad or Fog as to what they feel about the team, the culture, who has made them feel welcome, who thinks their 5h1t doesn't stink?

Teague and the match committee can change this quite easily, but if they don't soon, it will be too late for this season.
 

Zuribagger

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May 6, 2017
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Veterans being played when they shouldn't, injured players being played, it creates a bad or sloppy standard. I would love to hear from Williams, Saad or Fog as to what they feel about the team
if the sub-par performers are not dealt with very soon, we risk the new blokes being under less pressure to maintain a higher standard of effort.
 

Blue Pulse

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if the sub-par performers are not dealt with very soon, we risk the new blokes being under less pressure to maintain a higher standard of effort.
It's not just the new blokes, the younger guys who are busting their guts to play, see guys in a position they want, being gifted games because of "how" they use to play. Pick players on their form, not their reputation and playing injured at AFL level is just a detriment to the side.
 

JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
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Yeah yeah yeah. You know what I mean.

Zorko is one of my most despised players. Hate the bloke. But I'd prefer him to some of the weak shits we've had playing for us this last decade.

That type is what I want.

I really don't care if they wanna plastered after the game if they perform. Don't care if they wanna shag someone's missus. I really don't. I don't care what they do off-field.

I want guys like Tich Edwards who tackle to hurt. Blokes like Hodgey who put that blokes head into the point post.

I want a bloke who will pinch and scratch to get to the ball. A bloke who will get in the head of anyone in his way.

A bloke like Mumford.

Give away a couple of frees but make sure the opposition best player is corked early in the game.


fu** playing the right way.

Let's win.
I used to larf my backside off reading people on here criticizing Robinson/Waite/Sentata for showing any aggression and risking suspension whilst lauding and fawning over soft c**ks and making them leaders and Captains.

I don't follow Carton because of its history - as I experienced NONE of its successful history - all I've experienced is organisational error after organisational error and investment into the wrong players and the wrong culture for the wrong reasons for 20 years. I'm addicted and far far too invested in a weekly tragedy unfolding before my eyes in a sad cycle of shitness.

The club is now being led by the nose by a membership drive and everyone is lauding membership numbers - as if giving freebies away means anything to the bottom line. Every interview Teague does is an appeal to members to get to the games and show support. In terms of organisational 'stature' Teague is just part of the marketing crapola - for as long as the leaders of the Club can tolerate 'his' losses.

I reckon he was appointed because the players liked the way he spoke to them and a few meaningless wins at the arse end of the season convinced him he could get player buy in and members were just relieved to get a few wins. He was also appointed because Barker thought he could stay there and Lloyd liked a couple of nobodies below him - the politics of this whole coaching appointment undermines the whole integrity of teh coaching panel - I mean seriously Barker and Stanton as midfield coaches - really?

Well the players aren't buying in atm - and he has walked backwards and away from his promise to reward form. He has even manipulated team selection in order to fit in useless old players who are just repeating the same on-field behaviour patterns they have for a decade. Carlton's problem isn't the young players - it is the old duds we insist on playing to pay off for Coach selection and maintain some sort of false loyalty to blokes who arent up to it anymore and depriving younger blokes of the necessary development time to show what they've got or not.

We are in a doom loop - again and, once again during tough times - just like Murphy did our current Captin Cripps appears to be holding the Club to ransom.

The rebuild is at risk not only because of injury to key pillars - we are playing a style of game that lacks the basic foundations of on-field buy-in and selection integrity and even within the constraints of that equation - so many selected players being played out of position with fingers crossed they can do what they can't do or know what to do.

The Club is so afraid of a big blowout loss we are playing injured players week in week out - and expecting miracles.

All we have achieved at best is middling team potential - it can change quickly - but it will take buy in from Cripps sooner rather than later for starters and team selection policy to radically veer towards rewarding good behaviour.

My best case is that the shame associated with member responses to the manner of the losses against Collingwood and Port forces change.

I mean seriously Williams is supposed to be a midfielder for us and gets started in forward pocket? wtf if he isn't good to go as a full time mid - play him off HBF and give Saad a rest as he is obviously playing with a bad corkie - and that is just for starters. There is no imaginaion or creativity at selection - and precious little of common sense - smacks of desperation to me.
 

Blue Pulse

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I mean seriously Williams is supposed to be a midfielder for us and gets started in forward pocket? wtf if he isn't good to go as a full time mid - play him off HBF and give Saad a rest as he is obviously playing with a bad corkie - and that is just for starters. There is no imaginaion or creativity at selection - and precious little of common sense - smacks of desperation to me.
Totally agree with what your saying however, it doesn't take imagination to play players where they were brought up playing.
 

Koutamightafides

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Feb 21, 2019
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Does it matter, at the moment, the way we are playing, no.

From the Port game, I could give votes to 6, maybe 7 players, the rest were going through the motions. It doesn't matter how angry or how mongrel you are, if you don't get 18 blokes on the field all pushing for the same goal, you are always going to struggle.

Back in the day, when I was playing, we amalgamated with another club. There was a bit of rivalry and not a lot of love between the teams even though a number of guys knew each other. The first message given out by the coach: "You don't have to love your team mate, you don't have to drink with him or hang out with him, but for 2 hours a week on Saturday afternoon you are brothers and you will do everything in you power to assist him on the football field, no ifs, no buts." What I see in our "team" (and I could be way off the mark here) is a bunch of individual teams or units, mixed messages, confusion and a serious lack of confidence.

Veterans being played when they shouldn't, injured players being played, it creates a bad or sloppy standard. I would love to hear from Williams, Saad or Fog as to what they feel about the team, the culture, who has made them feel welcome, who thinks their 5h1t doesn't stink?

Teague and the match committee can change this quite easily, but if they don't soon, it will be too late for this season.
We are a team of individuals not an individual team .
 

TwiggleyFanClub

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Oct 10, 2008
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Hopefully a culture rebuild doesn't take 66 games: just state the new expectation and start dropping players who don't deliver. One of 2 big names should put the whole group on notice.
Can't remove selfish choices or bad habits immediately, but supporting your team mates and being unconditional in your efforts can be judged from day 1.
 

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Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods

Sir Cripps of Carlton House
Mar 26, 2015
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None of Kennedy, Setterfield or Dow have been used as an extractor.

I think this is partly because Cripps doesn't have a 2nd position. He's either in the middle or on the pine. Otherwise we are carrying him defensively.

Unfortunately he creates as many problems for us as he does the opposition.
Cripps may not a 2nd position that he's overly good at, but he's quite capable of sitting in the square when resting.
The fact that Kennedy, Setters and Dow aren't being used as extractors, does NOT rest on the shoulders of Cripps' limited positional usage.
Walsh is capable of coming out of the middle and going to a wing or stints forward. Williams is also capable of wing, HBF and dare I say he'd capable at HFF also. Should be plenty of time for these guys to get some rotations at the drop of the ball.
 

Gethelred

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May 1, 2016
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I'd love a Libba or a Zorko or a Mitch Robinson.
I really do not know why we didn't make a play for Treloar. We could've paid for his contact - in part - and the dude has been a multiuse midfielder for his entire career.

Hamstrings are a risk, but every man and his dog is a risk on our list such is the rate our players are injured.
 

JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
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I really do not know why we didn't make a play for Treloar. We could've paid for his contact - in part - and the dude has been a multiuse midfielder for his entire career.

Hamstrings are a risk, but every man and his dog is a risk on our list such is the rate our players are injured.
Cant remember the last time Carlton and Collingwood did a deal regarding a player - since we nabbed Nick Stephens when he wated to go to them from Port.
 

Doro

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Did Heath Scotland occur before or after that?

In any case, we seem to have a marked dislike of accumulating midfielders.
I think we'd already had Williams and Saad across the line, don't know if we would have had the cap space or picks for Treloar as well.
 

forever blue 1

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Mar 7, 2021
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I really do not know why we didn't make a play for Treloar. We could've paid for his contact - in part - and the dude has been a multiuse midfielder for his entire career.

Hamstrings are a risk, but every man and his dog is a risk on our list such is the rate our players are injured.
That surely can’t be a serious post? This site would of imploded and hindsight is such a beautiful thing isn’t it?
 

Gethelred

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May 1, 2016
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Your post was more like a statement of fact of that we failed to sign Treloar. I questioned it with reason of hindsight. And then you don’t back up hindsight, just another question regarding my question.
I guess hindsight settled that argument.
As far as I know, we never even tried to sign Treloar, when what he provides - a highly flexible, adaptable midfielder - would be tremendously useful. Why recruit someone like Williams for a job he has only ever done as injury cover when you can recruit someone who's done it all career?

This is not hindsight recruiting. I was wary of Williams ability to play full time mid, and I thought Treloar would've been a good get and was a good get for the Dogs.

So, my question was - considering your utter inability to argue in good faith, ever - if there was a point to asking you why. Guess there wasn't.
 

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