Mongrel - who has it who doesn't ? Does it Matter?

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DangerousD

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2015
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That surely can’t be a serious post? This site would of imploded and hindsight is such a beautiful thing isn’t it?
How is it hindsight? Myself and many others were surprised we didn’t make a play, I assume it would of come out if we had a meeting or were considering it.

Treloar has a very good record and has shown to be a very good player and is playing very good so far this year, he would have been great for us.
 

forever blue 1

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How is it hindsight? Myself and many others were surprised we didn’t make a play, I assume it would of come out if we had a meeting or were considering it.

Treloar has a very good record and has shown to be a very good player and is playing very good so far this year, he would have been great for us.
Kill me now 😅
 

DangerousD

Norm Smith Medallist
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Ok then DD
Do you have the consensus of this board regarding Treloar?
I pretty sure I’d win
But I don’t care about winning, I care about people getting real with themselves. I asked G a simplistic question of reason and hence why hindsight was beautiful, yet you both have no reasonable argument.
pretty sad if I may.
Consensus? You’re assuming to know, that’s just your opinion, my opinion and many others, which we made at the time (so not hindsight) was that we should have pushed hard for Treloar, for many reasons, mainly because he’s a really good player and his trade cost was very low, that’s my opinion, feel free to disagree.

I am not sitting here, saying we should have done ABC because he has all of a sudden become a good player, I’ve been a fan for a while.

Calling people F wits and arse holes because you disagree with them, is poor form and makes you look really bad.
 

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forever blue 1

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Consensus? You’re assuming to know, that’s just your opinion, my opinion and many others, which we made at the time (so not hindsight) was that we should have pushed hard for Treloar, for many reasons, mainly because he’s a really good player and his trade cost was very low, that’s my opinion, feel free to disagree.

I am not sitting here, saying we should have done ABC because he has all of a sudden become a good player, I’ve been a fan for a while.

Calling people F wits and arse holes because you disagree with them, is poor form and makes you look really bad.
And cost of contract ?
or do you choose not to bring that to the table ?
stop kidding yourself. I’m over and out with this discussion, it’s like I’m talking to a wall. Night.
 

FRUMPY

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View attachment 1111030

When we had this group leading the club for a decade it’s no wonder near enough is considered good enough
Love this, get flogged by the bottom side and chair off a guy who abandoned ship. Almost as bad as our skipper celebrating goal of the year when he finally kicked a goal when getting flogged against the bottom of the ladder team.

Sent from my CPH2005 using Tapatalk
 

DangerousD

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Please...first one to fly the flag, and would back into an oncoming train.
Players who won’t tackle, don’t have mongrel, actively avoids tackling, 4 tackles in our 5 games this year is evidence of that.

If you can be bothered have a look at the first goal GC kicked against us a few weeks ago, Doc spoils the ball and the ball is crumbed by the GC, Doc s about 2m away from the ball carrier, instead of taking one stride towards the carrier and tackling, he turns his back and sprints goal ward, this opens massive space for the GC player to run in to and hit up King.

He does this because he doesn’t want his opponent to get the next possession in the chain, as long as my opponent doesn’t get it, ive done my bit.

Have a look at one of Devon Robertson’s goals yesterday, I think in the 3rd quarter where he evaded our blokes in the goal square, have a look at Doc run in, then have a look again, Doc runs right up to Devon and runs past him, by missing, I mean he actually brushes past him, but have a look where docs arms are, they are wrapped around his opponent, who he thinks is going to get the next ball.

Instead of actually tackling the bloke with the ball in the square, he covers his own opponent who might get it and runs past the player with the ball.

4 tackles in 5 games.
 

Blue1980

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Don't think it can be laid at the feet of Murphy at all.

The issue is one that has arisen from the manner in which we approached the rebuild. Bolton was all about "no ceiling" for the players, they came in with a clean slate and they'd be selected based on effort and performance, not draft position.

But the reality was that, because we culled the list so heavily, we did end up gifting a lot of games to a lot of kids. We accepted losses, and big ones, because there were "green shoots". It could have paid off, if we'd accelerated quickly, but we didn't. We stagnated, we treaded water, we kept waiting and waiting for the payoff. And in the meantime, we turned a bunch of quality young kids into players for whom winning wasn't a KPI, wasn't a goal, it was a nice bonus every now and then but if we didn't get it we weren't too worried.

So we need to make changes to our training methods, KPIs and selection processes that reward the guys for whom winning (everything - the ball, the contest, the game) is a non-negotiable, and develops/encourages it in those for whom it isn't. And anyone between here and the end of the season who can't find that inside themselves should be shown the door.
This is the problem with claiming you are doing a full on rebuild, it’s basically a way of saying you will be winning bugger all games and it’s hard to flick a switch from winning not mattering for years to suddenly trying to change the mindset.

I’d rather we battle it out mid/lower table for a bit than go back to square one, this would mean we’d cop the scrutiny and brick by brick with winning the metric the playing group is judged on, we can change the culture.

Admittedly under Teague it has changed, which is good, but we had basically 2015 to halfway through 2019 where we were happy for tiny “green shoots”. That is very hard to change.
 

SkyhorseTamer

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As far as I know, we never even tried to sign Treloar, when what he provides - a highly flexible, adaptable midfielder - would be tremendously useful. Why recruit someone like Williams for a job he has only ever done as injury cover when you can recruit someone who's done it all career?

This is not hindsight recruiting. I was wary of Williams ability to play full time mid, and I thought Treloar would've been a good get and was a good get for the Dogs.

So, my question was - considering your utter inability to argue in good faith, ever - if there was a point to asking you why. Guess there wasn't.
Doubt he'd even answer carltons phone call if he knew the dogs were keen. Remember his reason for choosing the pies in the first place, he got it wrong but immediate team success is a huge motivator for him.
 

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BlueJet

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Please...first one to fly the flag, and would back into an oncoming train.
I like Doc but in his present role he embodies bruise free.
He offers very little steel defensively and his role seems to be more about finding space to setup a counterattack, provided the rest of the defensive group can beat their opponents.
He showed more physicality against the Lions, particularly early, hopefully he continues on with it for the rest of the season because we really need him to start setting the tone as he's a barometer for our side.
Flying the flag, particularly in modern footy with a million different camera angles to catch any undisciplined act, is about the safest thing in footy fwiw.
 

Gethelred

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I like Doc but in his present role he embodies bruise free.
He offers very little steel defensively and his role seems to be more about finding space to setup a counterattack, provided the rest of the defensive group can beat their opponents.
He showed more physicality against the Lions, particularly early, hopefully he continues on with it for the rest of the season because we really need him to start setting the tone as he's a barometer for our side.
See, go back to our win against the Suns, and he was leaping across the front of packs, putting himself in the hole, taking the game on with his run. He was never a big numbers tackler (highest season average was 2017, when he averaged 3.3; for context, that's still .2 of a tackle less than Murphy's career average tackles per game) but he went when it was his turn to go, and he was so damaging in replay.

Since he's come back, he's averaging 1.2 and 1.8 tackles a game last year and this year. It's not good enough, and I hope he knows it.
 

BlueJet

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See, go back to our win against the Suns, and he was leaping across the front of packs, putting himself in the hole, taking the game on with his run. He was never a big numbers tackler (highest season average was 2017, when he averaged 3.3; for context, that's still .2 of a tackle less than Murphy's career average tackles per game) but he went when it was his turn to go, and he was so damaging in replay.

Since he's come back, he's averaging 1.2 and 1.8 tackles a game last year and this year. It's not good enough, and I hope he knows it.
He's certainly capable of it, which is precisely the source of my bemusement.
It's almost as though he's been coached away from it.
I also dont understand why we persist with him as the outlet - IMO Williams, SPS, Saad and even Willo are all better suited to that role.
Docs strength was always his ability to read the play and provide cover to his fellow defenders.
In recent times, we've seen very little of that and have had others dropping into space to screen him.
Hodge/Jonas are my go to comparisons which may be a tad unfair as they were/are the embodiment of mongrel but I have a hard time in seeing younger players doing the heavy lifting so that one of our leaders can run around loose.
 

SkyhorseTamer

Norm Smith Medallist
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Despite the loss, I saw some positive signs in the last game

Still need more extroverts
Less introverts, more extroverts, its the wrong word. I've seen it a million times but I'll take Bruce doull over Jack Watts, bootsma, lamb, menzel and lucas any day. Good bunch of talk themselves up go to water when the pressure is on extroverts that lot are.


The word you want is more mongrel and it has nothing to do with whether someone likes talking or not.
 

Arr0w

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Less introverts, more extroverts, its the wrong word. I've seen it a million times but I'll take Bruce doull over Jack Watts, bootsma, lamb, menzel and lucas any day. Good bunch of talk themselves up go to water when the pressure is on extroverts that lot are.


The word you want is more mongrel and it has nothing to do with whether someone likes talking or not.
I have seen both ST.

Players that had inner mongrel but never unleashed it.

I also remember many of those young GWS kids under Sheedy chirping away, but weren't hard enough at the footy or the contest

We have players with mongrel (could do with a few more), but they need to start letting it out
 

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