Mongrel - who has it who doesn't ? Does it Matter?

[BigBreakfast]

You claimed he has Psuedo injuries, essentially stating he feigns injuries, this is what I responded too, nothing more, nothing less

Then you turn it to past debates that has nothing to do with your "guess", hence a false claim

Absolutely I will call out crap posting

Pseudo injuries was not the best terminology to use, I wanted to refer to the number of injuries. And it’s not a guess, posted a representative image and games played data. Not sure my long term history is crap posting but I will freely admit that I don’t have the detailed knowledge I used to because I don’t have time. I do post some crap lately but, if we were to judge all by that criteria, this would be a lonely place…

 

[BigBreakfast]

Has nothing to do with with the posters claim completely different conversation

Williams does need to be more committed, to preparation

And I did refer to lesser prep levels and a reduced fitness base.

 

[Arr0w]

Pseudo injuries was not the best terminology to use, I wanted to refer to the number of injuries. And it’s not a guess, posted a representative image and games played data. Not sure my long term history is crap posting but I will freely admit that I don’t have the detailed knowledge I used to because I don’t have time. I do post some crap lately but, if we were to judge all by that criteria, this would be a lonely place…

And I did refer to lesser prep levels and a reduced fitness base.

This was the post I replied too

Mongrel - who has it who doesn't ? Does it Matter?

Chatting with a Mongrel enthusiast today, I believe this could be one of our major areas of improvement I just can't see a Voss lead team, not focussing on improving this area, which has a positive collective flow on effect Agreed, was also thinking this (plus Hamill)

www.bigfooty.com

No mention of fitness, prep levels, no mention to the number of injuries and then you want to bring up my debates with others as evidence of you being misunderstood?

FMD

 

[Metalcrusher]

Has nothing to do with with the posters claim completely different conversation

Williams does need to be more committed, to preparation

I agree.

 

[BigBreakfast]

This was the post I replied too

Mongrel - who has it who doesn't ? Does it Matter?

Chatting with a Mongrel enthusiast today, I believe this could be one of our major areas of improvement I just can't see a Voss lead team, not focussing on improving this area, which has a positive collective flow on effect Agreed, was also thinking this (plus Hamill)

www.bigfooty.com

No mention of fitness, prep levels, no mention to the number of injuries and then you want to bring up my debates with others as evidence of you being misunderstood?

FMD

I never claim to be misunderstood, just that I made an observation and I didn’t care for a conversation about it and you jumped on one word of it. And you haven’t referred to any other posts in the conversation.
FMD

And that post isn’t even me.

 

[Arr0w]

I never claim to be misunderstood, just that I made an observation and I didn’t care for a conversation about it and you jumped on one word of it. And you haven’t referred to any other posts in the conversation.
FMD

And that post isn’t even me.

That post isn't you, someone hacked your account?

 

[BigBreakfast]

That post isn't you, someone hacked your account?

Only read the header, yes it's me. And again, you are jumping on one word thatvI have already said was poorly phrased. Let it go...

 

[Justnetime]

So where did we end up here. Williams was called out for laziness by the media (was it J Brown), was called out by Teague around preparation. So that leads to mental toughness he lacks. And mental toughness just as he joins a new club and should be trying to prove his bonafides. Not the best reflection on him.

Now going back further, did mental toughness form part of the mongrel piece? This one probably is a split thing because most are looking at the physical side on field rather than off field side. If you wanted to, you could include it as a personal preference. On field to the eye he seems to hold his own. Off field there is a question mark.

IMO, I like Zac Williams and I’m guessing his body just lets him down more than anything else. Zac Williams as a midfielder may have been a Carlton recruiting error. They should have recruited him for HBF But then they also had Saad (So strange thing). Niggles and then impact on Williams training and running seem an issue. I’d guess Carlton kept trying to hunt down a big name at all costs and had to make promises on midfield time. I think SoS arranged Williams a yer out but not Saad. Austin got Saads interest later causing strange shit for Carlton.

I have no proof of my opinion (Arrow ). I’m just guessing like the last 20 years Carlton have been a dumb club.

 

[thylacine60]

Now going back further, did mental toughness form part of the mongrel piece? This one probably is a split thing because most are looking at the physical side on field rather than off field side.

what about mongrel in the head? to fight through mental health issues, to push through injury, to endure a bad run of form and come back from it?

*cough*

 

[Justnetime]

*cough*

Of all the thylacines I know, you re definitely the smartest.

 

[Accidental genius]

I interpreted mongrel as a player that goes in hard and wilfully wants to hurt the oppo so next time he and his team mates think twice before going into next context when he is in the picture. In other words a player that puts fear into oppo players.

 

[thylacine60]

so just physical?

 

[thylacine60]

Of all the thylacines I know, you re definitely the smartest.

 

[Arr0w]

Only read the header, yes it's me. And again, you are jumping on one word thatvI have already said was poorly phrased. Let it go...

You guessed, made false assumptions and when challenged added extra mayo as well as denying you made the false claim

Then brought up other debates to justify your false claims

But you are asking me to let it go?

Just move on without continuing to change feet

 

[Accidental genius]

so just physical?

Yes, imo. If a player is mentally tuff then I would refer to them as being mentally tuff...not necessarily as having mongrel although I can see what others mean in this regard.

 

[Metalcrusher]

But doesn't sending ones body in to put it on the line refer to the psychological side as well ie. in that "state of mind" to will the body in?

 

[Justnetime]

Only read the header, yes it's me. And again, you are jumping on one word thatvI have already said was poorly phrased. Let it go...

I think this is a very common thing on this forum. To bypass making a simple point of view that ends up in a long indeterminable argument prefix your post with IMO, or in my personal opinion. If not, lots jump in and say prove your point which you can’t as it’s perspective only.

 

[Justnetime]

But doesn't sending ones body in to put it on the line refer to the psychological side as well ie. in that "state of mind" to will the body in?

Good question that further obfuscates the discussion.

Can I ask a question in return. When I see Plowman on the club videos smiling and laughing literally like a ten year old goodie two shoes child can he still realistically show mongrel on field?

 

[Accidental genius]

But doesn't sending ones body in to put it on the line refer to the psychological side as well ie. in that "state of mind" to will the body in?

Yes. The mind sets the wheels in motion so they go hand in hand.

 

[Accidental genius]

Good question that further obfuscates the discussion.

Can I ask a question in return. When I see Plowman on the club videos smiling and laughing literally like a ten year old goodie two shoes child can he still realistically show mongrel on field?

I’ve never thought of plowman as someone having mongrel. Is a competitive player though.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Good question that further obfuscates the discussion.

Can I ask a question in return. When I see Plowman on the club videos smiling and laughing literally like a ten year old goodie two shoes child can he still realistically show mongrel on field?

That depends, was it on the field when you saw that said behaviour?

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Gets pseudo injuries very regularly and has a serious ‘it’s too hard face’ too often for my liking.

Pseudo injuries? That's a piss take surely. Just cause the bloke cops more injuries than others have been doesn't mean they're pseudo, or do you not know what that means and what you've implied by saying it. Christ. Pseudo injuries.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Look Arrow. You can make another battle of this minor observation if you like but, I’m not interested in arguing with you. I find it boring now because you go hard at anyone who doesn’t agree with you. Williams is hurt a lot, misses more games than he should and regularly limps, hobbles and grimaces through games. He underperformed based on widely observed below par fitness levels. I’m done now.

Can him for his fitness levels then. Not how injury prone he is and whether you think he can play through pain or not because ultimately you've no ****ing idea if he can or can't play through pain. The only thing we do know is he was not fit enough. Which can be said about most of the squad, not just Williams.

 

[BigBreakfast]

Pseudo injuries? That's a piss take surely. Just cause the bloke cops more injuries than others have been doesn't mean they're pseudo, or do you not know what that means and what you've implied by saying it. Christ. Pseudo injuries.

Mate, I've been down this road and already said that was poorly worded. Jog on.

 

[BigBreakfast]

Can him for his fitness levels then. Not how injury prone he is and whether you think he can play through pain or not because ultimately you've no ******* idea if he can or can't play through pain. The only thing we do know is he was not fit enough. Which can be said about most of the squad, not just Williams.

And that's why he is injured more often, his fitness levels aren't sufficient. There is a greater load on limbs, muscles and fatigue leads to poor technique. These things result in injuries, thus injury prone. As tge title of the thread purports, and the discussion following thrashes out, toughness is more that appearing tough, it is the ability to sustain competitiveness beyond your opponent and in 9 years, Williams hadn't consistently done that. You can't divorce the injury prone and fitness in contemporary football. Keep piling on though.