- Oct 19, 2020
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- #151
I think Buddy and Rance are much higher up on the greatest players of all time list than Hawkins.
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Opinion Most Underated & Overated player from each team.
- Thread starter Aristotle Pickett
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Over-rated - Based on current output Luke Jackson
Is neither elite in the ruck or forward line.
Hitout win % and hitout to advantage %s are very very low.
He’s only kicked 3+ goals once in his 52 games. He’s just not at all a dominant forward.
Having said that to be clear he’s only over-rated on current output. He’s still only 21, and despite having matured early he could learn and grow his ruck craft, at least by a small bit, though I suspect he will never be a high end tap ruck but more a follow up once it hits the deck type.
Is neither elite in the ruck or forward line.
Hitout win % and hitout to advantage %s are very very low.
He’s only kicked 3+ goals once in his 52 games. He’s just not at all a dominant forward.
Having said that to be clear he’s only over-rated on current output. He’s still only 21, and despite having matured early he could learn and grow his ruck craft, at least by a small bit, though I suspect he will never be a high end tap ruck but more a follow up once it hits the deck type.
There's an argument Jackson earns the most money for actual output in entire competition
Jai Newcombe at Hawks seems a little harsh
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Rozee is a weird one, and isn’t really accurate anymore, though i could understand an outsider thinking this at a cursory glance if they had their head in the sand regarding his form last year and his injury issues before that.
If you made this claim the season before it probably would have been accurate.
Was an absolute star last year, and from round 5 onwards when he went into the midfield was one of the best players in the comp.
But between his breakout season and this season there was a patch where he clearly underperformed compared to the freakish talent and expectations of him.
Most Port supporters watched him struggle to get his body right with foot issues he just couldn’t shake while he played that weird hff role.
The over-rated tag just can’t apply after a season where once moved into the midfield he was a dominant force.
Falcon3518
Norm Smith Medallist
- Mar 13, 2022
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- #156
Rioli I can understand but Bolton and Riewoldt overrated? No way.
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Just looking at my own club who I think general pundits outside of Tiger supporters don't rate highly enough or overrate what they do/ their week to week value:
Underrated: Nathan Broad/ Nick Vlastuin. These two are every bit gun defenders and so important to our backline. They are rarely beaten and you can trust them to get the job done every week.
Overrated: Jayden Short. I think he's a good player but his weapons are limited to long penetrative kicking, but it's not necessarily surgically accurate. He's not a lockdown small who also rebounds, he's purely offensive. I'd take Dan Rioli over him any day who can shut down smalls then has precision ball use and runs as hard as anyone on the rebound.
Underrated: Nathan Broad/ Nick Vlastuin. These two are every bit gun defenders and so important to our backline. They are rarely beaten and you can trust them to get the job done every week.
Overrated: Jayden Short. I think he's a good player but his weapons are limited to long penetrative kicking, but it's not necessarily surgically accurate. He's not a lockdown small who also rebounds, he's purely offensive. I'd take Dan Rioli over him any day who can shut down smalls then has precision ball use and runs as hard as anyone on the rebound.
Port is a weird team to do an under-rated / overrated examination because of the fact the afl media is vic based and focused, and the Sa media is mainly crows and sanfl old guard.
It’s the same thing that helped me score about 13k + on wines brownlow win thanks to his lack of recognition before winning that Brownlow led to his odds being way further out than they should have been.
But I don’t think we have many highly underrated or overrated players currently.
.. here we go..
Dixon - is he overrated around the league? Probably not. He’s a key player in our team in a position that is vitally important and relatively scarce across the league. He’s one of the best contested markers in the league regularly finishing in the top of that category and a reliable goalkicker.
Has he underachieved for his career?
Almost certainly. His goals kicked across the past 5 or so years is well behind the top kfs in the league.
Overrated probably isn’t the right term, but he’s not far from it. He’s certainly worth the money we’re paying him and more and a key part of our team… just not an elite kf.
Ryan Burton - probably a little underrated. It’s the fact he’s so good both ways, we give him defensive jobs on players and he can do that and run off them. One of the best all-rounders in the league. But I wouldn’t say he’s massively underrated.
Houston - was massively underrated for much of his early career. We shifted him to the midfield and he was good there, and his kicking is up there with the best in the league but have moved him back to hbf where he’s just so consistent and reliable. High quality intercepting ball using half back the the leagues fans have caught on a little bit.
Jonas - a weird one in that through his best years he was well underrated, but has been mediocre to fractionally above average for a bit now and his getting off Scott free with little to no heat league wide nor from the club. In part the lack of exposure that hurts some players getting recognition helps other escape scrutiny.
Lycett - rather overrated. Has been getting by on the fact he competed against a couple of top rucks in key games early in his career as if it matters years later at a different club.
He’s a great workhorse, and a great competitor when the ball is on the deck in gen play but a bog average ruck whose schtick is to stop the other ruck from getting clear hitout wins so the ball comes down in neutral territory and is one of the worst rucks for around the ground contested marking I’ve ever seen.
His peak was pretty decent but his couple of years have been pretty horrid, and he’s well overrated now, particularly by our own club.
Todd Marshall - was previously massively underrated but that’s started to change this past year with him getting more exposure in the afl media. Is genuinely an elite young afl kf with special skills. There is not a kf with his vision and freak skills around and now he’s adding the strength that was always going to come for a lad who had a growth spurt before being drafted as a beanpole he’s rounding out his game and is very dangerous in a myriad of ways.
Spp - not underrated over all so much as in his 2022 is a bit underrated around the league. That’s to be expected though, if he has another year like this one people will catch on.
Sam Hayes - underrated, but that’s fairly common for a 7 game ruck .. but yeah.. plenty of other rucks got more attention in their first 7 games without doing something so noteworthy as being the only ruck in modern history (maybe ever?) that I can see that’s notched up a 47 hitout game in their first 7 league games. The fact absolutely no one knows this should be astounding, but really it’s not. If he played for some other clubs that would have been broadcast loudly.
Rozee - obviously not overrated overall as people know how talented he is, but his 2022 season once he moved into the midfield is underrated. He replicates that across a whole season and he wins a brownlow. He’s an absolute freak and game changer and once in a generation talent.
It’s the same thing that helped me score about 13k + on wines brownlow win thanks to his lack of recognition before winning that Brownlow led to his odds being way further out than they should have been.
But I don’t think we have many highly underrated or overrated players currently.
.. here we go..
Dixon - is he overrated around the league? Probably not. He’s a key player in our team in a position that is vitally important and relatively scarce across the league. He’s one of the best contested markers in the league regularly finishing in the top of that category and a reliable goalkicker.
Has he underachieved for his career?
Almost certainly. His goals kicked across the past 5 or so years is well behind the top kfs in the league.
Overrated probably isn’t the right term, but he’s not far from it. He’s certainly worth the money we’re paying him and more and a key part of our team… just not an elite kf.
Ryan Burton - probably a little underrated. It’s the fact he’s so good both ways, we give him defensive jobs on players and he can do that and run off them. One of the best all-rounders in the league. But I wouldn’t say he’s massively underrated.
Houston - was massively underrated for much of his early career. We shifted him to the midfield and he was good there, and his kicking is up there with the best in the league but have moved him back to hbf where he’s just so consistent and reliable. High quality intercepting ball using half back the the leagues fans have caught on a little bit.
Jonas - a weird one in that through his best years he was well underrated, but has been mediocre to fractionally above average for a bit now and his getting off Scott free with little to no heat league wide nor from the club. In part the lack of exposure that hurts some players getting recognition helps other escape scrutiny.
Lycett - rather overrated. Has been getting by on the fact he competed against a couple of top rucks in key games early in his career as if it matters years later at a different club.
He’s a great workhorse, and a great competitor when the ball is on the deck in gen play but a bog average ruck whose schtick is to stop the other ruck from getting clear hitout wins so the ball comes down in neutral territory and is one of the worst rucks for around the ground contested marking I’ve ever seen.
His peak was pretty decent but his couple of years have been pretty horrid, and he’s well overrated now, particularly by our own club.
Todd Marshall - was previously massively underrated but that’s started to change this past year with him getting more exposure in the afl media. Is genuinely an elite young afl kf with special skills. There is not a kf with his vision and freak skills around and now he’s adding the strength that was always going to come for a lad who had a growth spurt before being drafted as a beanpole he’s rounding out his game and is very dangerous in a myriad of ways.
Spp - not underrated over all so much as in his 2022 is a bit underrated around the league. That’s to be expected though, if he has another year like this one people will catch on.
Sam Hayes - underrated, but that’s fairly common for a 7 game ruck .. but yeah.. plenty of other rucks got more attention in their first 7 games without doing something so noteworthy as being the only ruck in modern history (maybe ever?) that I can see that’s notched up a 47 hitout game in their first 7 league games. The fact absolutely no one knows this should be astounding, but really it’s not. If he played for some other clubs that would have been broadcast loudly.
Rozee - obviously not overrated overall as people know how talented he is, but his 2022 season once he moved into the midfield is underrated. He replicates that across a whole season and he wins a brownlow. He’s an absolute freak and game changer and once in a generation talent.
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- May 6, 2007
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Bolton is being spoken about as one of the best players in the game, did not even finish top 3 in his clubs best and fairest.
Jack Riewoldt kicks over half his goals when the game is NOT on the line. yes I have checked this and it is very real.
- May 6, 2007
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Perhaps, same applies to Jy Simpkin (North) who is a star because his team is shit
- May 6, 2007
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As I mentioned in my post above, Bolton is a damn good player and one who if he keeps improving can reach the heights he is being spoken about now.
Some claims make it out like he is the best player in the comp. Didn't even finish in the top 3 in his clubs best and fairest.
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Mrs Castagna??
Piggy Smalls
Is it Friday yet?
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Strapping Young Lad
Moderator
- Apr 19, 2006
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Are you seriously saying that Newcombe( and Simpkin) are only good because they play in shit sides?
Noidnadroj
Norm Smith Medallist
- Dec 8, 2020
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I’m a Richmond supporter so:
Overated: Jack Graham. Still dining off a few decent finals. Regularly gets tackled and HTB. Regularly turns it over. Has time on his side to become a very good player, but he’s fringe ATM.
Underrated: Vlastuin (similar mould to Tom Stewart but not used as a regular spare man or outlet so gets a few less possessions …. 3cm shorter than Stewart but plays on the likes of Jack Darling. Super courageous. Great mark. Great kick. Can defend 1v1.
And across all other teams as I can’t be bothered doing every team :
Most overrated : Lobb.
Most underrated: Wilkie
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Overated: Jack Graham. Still dining off a few decent finals. Regularly gets tackled and HTB. Regularly turns it over. Has time on his side to become a very good player, but he’s fringe ATM.
Underrated: Vlastuin (similar mould to Tom Stewart but not used as a regular spare man or outlet so gets a few less possessions …. 3cm shorter than Stewart but plays on the likes of Jack Darling. Super courageous. Great mark. Great kick. Can defend 1v1.
And across all other teams as I can’t be bothered doing every team :
Most overrated : Lobb.
Most underrated: Wilkie
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- May 6, 2007
- 44,790
- 27,958
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- Tottenham Hotspurs, Melbourne Vixen
Are you seriously saying that Newcombe( and Simpkin) are only good because they play in s**t sides?
Not denying they are good players mate, just saying they wouldn't be top 3 mids at good sides.
- Jun 12, 2018
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Jackson wasn’t paid much at dees and he is yet to play a game for the dockers can you elaborate on this output vs paid in the entire competition argument?
He won a rising star and premiership in his initial base contract.
If his output doesn’t improve on his new contract there might be an argument.
But for now your just dribbling shit!
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Good player but I’d say darling is a bit shorter than you think.
WTF does this even mean. You're pretty much saying that any goals kicked in the first 3 quarters don't count, and if a team is up or down by plenty then goals kicked in the last don't count either? Cause the game is not on the line right...
And the last claim that trust me mate, I've checked, fills me with about as much confidence as a Harrison Jones set shot when the game is "on the line".
Bolton is a gun, not one of the top players in the comp obviously but is storming up the ranks. Only some moron media make that claim - don't let that sway you by thinking that all Tigers supporters think he's one of the best players.
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For port:
Overrated - Definitely Dixon. The media talk about him as a premier forward of the comp. While in reality is that he’s a valuable role player. Definitely best 22 though.
Underrated - Houston. One of the best users of the football in the game
Rest:
Overrated - Patrick Cripps. He’s a good player in the mould of Steele, Wines, Laird. He’s not in the elite bracket like Bont, Petracca and Neale. Goes missing when the team needs him the most.
Underrated - Mitch Lewis
Overrated - Definitely Dixon. The media talk about him as a premier forward of the comp. While in reality is that he’s a valuable role player. Definitely best 22 though.
Underrated - Houston. One of the best users of the football in the game
Rest:
Overrated - Patrick Cripps. He’s a good player in the mould of Steele, Wines, Laird. He’s not in the elite bracket like Bont, Petracca and Neale. Goes missing when the team needs him the most.
Underrated - Mitch Lewis
- Nov 12, 2014
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He's the best at what he does in the league. A specific role in which he dominates. I rate Sicily just as high because he Can do both like he did last year. It was a travesty he wasn't AA last year with what he had to do. Stewart isn't overrated. There's only a couple in the league that can the impact on a game that he does. When we become successful again Sicily will be regarded the same way.
- Nov 12, 2014
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Won't be this year if he gets a good run at it. 50 plus goals is my top could even get 60 if our fast ball movement style is a success.
- Dec 22, 2006
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Blues - Zac Williams (over) Jack Silvagni (under)
Bombers - Darcy Parish (over) Peter Wright (under)
Bulldogs - Aaron Naughton (over) Bailey Smith (under)
Cats - Mark Blicavs (over) Jake Holodjasnij (under)
Crows - Izaac Rankine (over ) Tex Walker (under)
Demons - Jake Bowey (over) Bailey Fritsch (under)
Dockers - Michael Walters (Over) Andrew Brayshaw (under)
Eagles - Nic Natanui (over) No one (under)
Giants - Tom Green (over) Toby Greene (under)
Hawks - Jai Newcombe (over) Mitch Lewis (under)
Kangaroos - LDU (over) Nick Larkey (under)
Lions - Dayne Zorko (over) Starcevich (under)
Magpies - Darcy Moore (over) Brayden Maynard (under)
Power - Charlie Dixon (over) Karl Amon (under)
Saints - Max King (over) Jack Steele (under)
Suns - Jack Lukosius (over) Jarrod Witts (under)
Swans - Nick Blakey (over) Oli Florent (under)
Tigers - Daniel Rioli (over) Nathan Broad (under)
Most over rated in comp - Aaron Naughton
Most Under rated in comp - Bailey Fritsch
Bombers - Darcy Parish (over) Peter Wright (under)
Bulldogs - Aaron Naughton (over) Bailey Smith (under)
Cats - Mark Blicavs (over) Jake Holodjasnij (under)
Crows - Izaac Rankine (over ) Tex Walker (under)
Demons - Jake Bowey (over) Bailey Fritsch (under)
Dockers - Michael Walters (Over) Andrew Brayshaw (under)
Eagles - Nic Natanui (over) No one (under)
Giants - Tom Green (over) Toby Greene (under)
Hawks - Jai Newcombe (over) Mitch Lewis (under)
Kangaroos - LDU (over) Nick Larkey (under)
Lions - Dayne Zorko (over) Starcevich (under)
Magpies - Darcy Moore (over) Brayden Maynard (under)
Power - Charlie Dixon (over) Karl Amon (under)
Saints - Max King (over) Jack Steele (under)
Suns - Jack Lukosius (over) Jarrod Witts (under)
Swans - Nick Blakey (over) Oli Florent (under)
Tigers - Daniel Rioli (over) Nathan Broad (under)
Most over rated in comp - Aaron Naughton
Most Under rated in comp - Bailey Fritsch
- Dec 22, 2006
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Like when he was clearly the best player on the ground in the final 2 games when we were desperate to win, those losses were not on Crippa.
Old small forward Rioli was definitely overrated after a few good games. New version of the rebounding half back Rioli is if anything underrated.
