Next Coach

[mike91]

thank you. Well said and also reminded me of why I have that bellend on ignore

Question the coach and you're a bellend and put on ignore? lol ok

 

[Carnthedockers]

What exactly is going to change? Regardless of who has the ball, a 200 gamer or a 10 gamer, highly likely hes going to bomb it long inside 50, or he'll look up the ground and see no one forward. It's not experience holding us back, such a poor excuse, it's the failing game plan, kids aren't the issue, the coach is.

So your saying a 10 gamer should be playing the same as a 200 gamer? Really?

 

[mike91]

So your saying a 10 gamer should be playing the same as a 200 gamer? Really?

That's what you took from my comment? No, I don't think that mate.

 

[Purple Jesus]

Question the coach and you're a bellend and put on ignore? lol ok

No you were on ignore far before now chap.

 

[Wigarus]

You've listed 10 fit players - not 22 (required to play) or 25 (needed for a team sheet).

Alright, I'll bite, lets do this.
I listed 11 players, not 10, for starters so lol.


Your last point just proves that you haven't bothered to read what I write, which is fine, you don't have too, but if you're not going to pay attention then spare me. Have I questioned the rebuild? Nope. Have I questioned Ross Lyon's coaching for years, yep. Most players see a light at the end of a tunnel, doesn't mean they're right and we have to keep Ross to keep those players happy.

Next time read my posts before quoting me, otherwise don't bother.

 

[mike91]

I listed 11 fit players that would have a coach wetting their pants, who on earth has 22/25 guns in a team?

 

[Tbonefreo]

Wont happen yet, but eventually it should. Hope our club has the balls to do it. Make a phone call to Blake Caracella and don't take no for an answer. Surround the next coach with good assistants, like Brett Ratten, who's won premierships as part of Hawthorn's coaching team. People on here have a raging hard on for Lyon, but reality is hes been shit for a few years now and he simply has to go.

I've heard things about Caracella, but what makes you think he would be a good fit for us?

 

[raffrox]

I think we're just treading water until we move on from Ross unfortunately. It might be another 12 months till that happens but we have to act quickly if quality players start bailing like it played out for Carlton.

 

[Tbonefreo]

I like Ratts. Three year contract. Bring in Longmuir as an assistant (or does he dislike the club? Doesn't ever have much to do with them) and insurance policy so if Ratts is no good, in comes Longmuir.

Yeah I agree. I said before the season Lyon was looking like a has-been. Looks like the players are losing faith/interest.

I mean Tucker played today. Did you see him?

 

[Arcassius]

Yeah I agree. I said before the season Lyon was looking like a has-been. Looks like the players are losing faith/interest.

I mean Tucker played today. Did you see him?

I thought Tucker did some good things. How does whether someone saw him relate to whether the players have lost faith in the coach?

 

[raffrox]

Yeah I agree. I said before the season Lyon was looking like a has-been. Looks like the players are losing faith/interest.

I mean Tucker played today. Did you see him?

Darcy has at best stagnated as of late. His disposal was very average today. It's like the forward line is so broken that it doesn't matter about how you deliver the ball.

 

[Tbonefreo]

Yeah the forward line is bad. No dangerous players

 

[TheInjuryFactory]

Hard call - i'd like to say 7-8th

If we extend the 'play the kids' line forward, then even by the end of next season Darcy, Cerra, Brayshaw, Crowden, Cox, Pearce, North, Giro, Logue, Ryan, Banfield will probably be in the 20-45 games played (still sub 50 games).

I think 2020 is ambitious (an aspirational marketing call rather than realistic) - and I'm happy for us to aim for top 4 2020, not a premiership, because I'm not sold that playing the kids will return on the investment in 2 seasons, but more likely 3-4. It also hinges on who else we can bring in over the next 2 off-seasons as a maturer player who is best 22 - increasing our depth/capabilities. Whoever we draft next year I don't expect to be gifted games early compared to the guys this year.

Fair post. Yeah I'd agree with that timeline. No one can guarantee a flag, but top 4 in 2020 gives you the legitimate chance.

Do you really think we look on track though? and if we aren't on track, whose fault is that?

This side is a long, long way off becoming a top 4 team, and we're lacking in much more than just experience.

Thing about 2020 is, if it was an aspirational marketing ploy and nothing more, then how dinkum are we really as a club? Who wants to be fed that sort of bullshit? If it's not a genuine flag on the hill then why bother with the lip service?

I took it as good as a rolled gold guarantee that he and the club would do everything in their power to make it happen. I would believe the board did too.

I don't sense the urgency required to deliver on it.

 

[Tbonefreo]

I thought Tucker did some good things. How does whether someone saw him relate to whether the players have lost faith in the coach?

Gameplan might be over complicated and not to players strengths? Who knows. He has hit a big bloody wall. Will end up in the sheridan/crozier basket soon

 

[Rion]

Hard question for me. Based on opinion/projection. If you think we're going to be top 4/challenging 2020 you keep Ross on. If not it's probably pretty important to get another guy in and give him the time to build.

We're obviously trying to predict the future here but it's pretty important we get it right imo considering Fyfe's age puts a time limit on the whole thing. I'm leaning more and more into trying something new personally but everyone's entitled to their opinion.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I do get it, its hard to see WC doing well when we all thought they would be shit and this will be the third season of meh from the way its going. I have always supported Ross but its frustrating when similar mistakes are made week in and out and we want to see progress.

I also get that the "youth" disclaimer gets hard to swallow after a while but it really is important. The sides that didnt bottom out over the last three years as expected have something in common. They maintained experienced, hardened & quality players across both ends of the ground

Richmond: Rance & Riewoldt
WC: McGovern & Kennedy/Darling
Roos: Tarrant & Brown

We have had such a ridiculous turnover of players the last few years that literally half our 22 is under 50 games. Thats ridiculous. In hindsight, our list was diabolical two seasons ago and in an all-mighty hole with old, useless list cloggers across every line. While this is a symptom of poor list management and recruiting its a different story and not relevant.

A new coach at the end of this year will do nothing and prove nothing. There is too much inexperience in our best 22 and squad in general. Brisbane picked up probably the most credentialed coach (without a proper senior gig previously) in history and all they have to show for it is an "honorable" 1-9.

Having said all that, there clearly needs to be marked improvement before the end of next year. I would fully expect us to be in the 8 (or just out) by the end of next year, and if not, start looking elsewhere. Personally, Sam Mitchell would be my choice if by the end of 2020 we have shown little progress.

 

[Marty Whitelaw]

Fair post. Yeah I'd agree with that timeline. No one can guarantee a flag, but top 4 in 2020 gives you the legitimate chance.

Do you really think we look on track though? and if we aren't on track, whose fault is that?

This side is a long, long way off becoming a top 4 team, and we're lacking in much more than just experience.

Thing about 2020 is, if it was an aspirational marketing ploy and nothing more, then how dinkum are we really as a club? Who wants to be fed that sort of bullshit? If it's not a genuine flag on the hill then why bother with the lip service?

I took it as good as a rolled gold guarantee that he and the club would do everything in their power to make it happen. I would believe the board did too.

I don't sense the urgency required to deliver on it.

Completely agree with you on this one. At the time, I took the comment to mean that he was deadly serious about delivering the club its first flag by 2020 and would move heaven and earth to do so. I know things can change quickly but We are just so far off the pace right now it is not funny. Given that we can hardly kick over 60 points per game I am struggling to see how we are going to magically bounce back to being a top 4 contender by then, and it is really quite depressing to watch.

 

[BlueE]

I'm unsure

West Coast supporters were calling for Simpson to be sacked now he has their full support.

Freo are halfway through thier rebuild and have had 22 list changes in two years. He has had very little continuity plus a turn over of some development coaches.

Simpson has had a stable team and it's paying off. They know the game plan and work very well together.

So I wouldn't be rushed into sacking him. It's such a reactionary thing that could drive players away also.

So the answer is no

Simpson had Sam Mitchell part time coach last year and now a full time coach. It could be him being a support for Simpson and a major contributor to their midfield which has seen their marked improvement.

Hardwick surrounded himself with excellent assistant coaches and club developed a trust among them and among the players.

I thought after the disaster of 2016 at some assistants would be moved on and likely prospects added. But I don't think that happened. It's one of Ross's major failings, even though he's mellowed (and this is probably because he had to listen to Fyfe a bit to get him to sign) is that he would rather have lesser talents, but do what he orders than anyone that may have enough potential to be in the top job one day.

I'm not a fan of Sumich and don't want to see him back at Freo, I'd rather Ratten, Schofield or Mitchell or all. But Ross has to either be a figurehead or go in my opinion.

 

[Arcassius]

When was it that we knew as fact that Ross is so authoritarian that he pushed the good assistants away and only wants to be surrounded by yes men?

Since that seems to be said or inferred a lot on here

We do need good assistants.We don't know whether the ones we have are any good. Hale could be the next Adam Simpson for all we know

 

[FreoMonocle]

I thought after the disaster of 2016 at some assistants would be moved on and likely prospects added. But I don't think that happened.

If a project went sour and someone lost a business 10 grand, do you sack them automatically, or do you accept that you've just spent 10 grand on training? You'd probably be better off being flexible about it and sack them depending on what/why rather than it being automatically sackable, particularly if they showed that they could learn from the experience and do better in the future.

For us, some of those were recent appointees, so they were going to take a while to step up and not start off as automatic world beaters as coaches.

 

[FreoMonocle]

Given that we can hardly kick over 60 points per game I am struggling to see how we are going to magically bounce back to being a top 4 contender by then, and it is really quite depressing to watch.

73.4 per game, it's a little better than that The top 3 teams are cracking just over 100, after them, Swans at 86 points, Kangas at 84, Cats at 83 points.

So our scoring average is not far off of 4th spot. If the younguns pump up their involvement by a few disposals each and a bit more game day discipline (a few less silly 50 meter penalties etc would be nice), that 2 goal gap will close. Also, doesn't factor in injury/retirements/trades and the usual vagaries of the footy gods.

 

[PurpleEyes]

To those who are so quick to blame RTB's game plan for Freo's lack of forward scoring efficiency ...
Have a look at both Freo and the Slime's leading players for Scoring Involvements so far in 2018 (all players >= 6.0 Scoring Involvments per game);

Freo:


the Slime:


That data suggests that it is the experienced forwards of West Coast that is the difference.
Can we please settle with all this talk that Lyon's game plan is to just bomb it deep in to the forward 50?
If that was true, then why is it, that our most experienced players who are most likely to be following RTB's game plan, have Freo's highest Scoring Involvements?

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Ratten was a decent coach at an abysmal club. He has now spent plenty of time as an assistant at an absolute powerhouse in Hawthorn.

Two things the yanks do right in coaching, that we fail to follow. Not all coaches are ex-players. It's seen as a benefit, not a downside to have had a tough stint in your first senior gig. Soooooo many legendary coaches have have tanked in their first role.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

I'm unsure

West Coast supporters were calling for Simpson to be sacked now he has their full support.

Freo are halfway through thier rebuild and have had 22 list changes in two years. He has had very little continuity plus a turn over of some development coaches.

Simpson has had a stable team and it's paying off. They know the game plan and work very well together.

So I wouldn't be rushed into sacking him. It's such a reactionary thing that could drive players away also.

So the answer is no

The WC board is completely reactionary.

A lot of posters who are so negative, I wonder if they are Freo alts. Always been like that. Ross is a very good coach, rebuilding a side. Could it click, sure. But the only issue I see, is the skill level/ball movement being below what it should be. It's always been my problem with Ross and Malthouse was similar. They seem to love turning players with natural skill and flair in to workman. IDK why, but they can grind the dash and attack out of the best. Some like Walters and Matera make it through as better players, others like Daisy and Stephen Hill get ground down.

 

[mike91]

To those who are so quick to blame RTB's game plan for Freo's lack of forward scoring efficiency ...
Have a look at both Freo and the Slime's leading players for Scoring Involvements so far in 2018 (all players >= 6.0 Scoring Involvments per game);

Freo:
View attachment 503526

the Slime:
View attachment 503527

That data suggests that it is the experienced forwards of West Coast that is the difference.
Can we please settle with all this talk that Lyon's game plan is to just bomb it deep in to the forward 50?
If that was true, then why is it, that our most experienced players who are most likely to be following RTB's game plan, have Freo's highest Scoring Involvements?

Because they're our midfielders? You literally see us bombing it every single week....how are you possibly defending that? With our own eyes, we see it week in, week out every game!