Oppo Camp Non-Eagles Discussion

[Chief]

Continued in Part 2:

Oppo Camp - Non-Eagles Discussion

Who gives a **** about finals anyway So overrated It’s all about the draft these days

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Bacchus]

Have to agree to disagree here, I don't think it's reasonable to say he launched himself at Brayshaw, when he left the ground he has no way of knowing that Brayshaw will change direction.

He didn’t change direction much - a slight veer, all that discussion was lawyer speak.
Possibly he moved off his path slightly as a reflex reaction when he became aware of Maynard coming at him.

Maynard’s action was dangerous, and he knocked a bloke out and possibly has ended his career.

What happens when a bump or tackle goes wrong?

 

[MrWoollie]

I think the AFL got exactly the result they wanted.
They got to charge a guy for knocking someone out and potentially ending their career, looking like they care.
Then the 'independent tribunal' clears him so he's free to play and the big VFL club has a huge win.

Win for the AFL, win for Collingwood.

There are a few things in life.
1. Eddie Maguire should never commentate a Collingwood game.
2. Michael Christian should never adjudicate a case involving a Collingwood player.

 

[EagleEgo]

Poor decision by the tribual, if it was based on the claim of "legitimate football action" and "insufficient time".

If this term ""legitimate football action" is really used as a licience to hurt, it has to define in such a way that the action is performed successfully.

In this case, I doubt that Maynard was focusing on the ball but certainly the end result is hitting the man. This is the reason why he missed the smother. (and he tried to claim that he did touch the ball). Because he missed the smother, the action is not a "legitimate football action".

Also, Maynard has every right to protect himself but NOT at the cost of other player‘s well being. (especially on a failed football action).

If a defender is trying to spoil a ball but miss the ball and instead punch an opposition player to concussion. Is this defender performing "legitimate football action"? Is the defender at fault and should he be punished with suspension? Do we think that the defender will have "sufficient time" to avoid the hit? This should be well documented by AFL to avoid future conflicts.

Unsucessful football action should never be classified as "legitimate".

 

[ziad]

The decision fitted the facts. Highly emotiobal it seems after a quick read.

 

[GlennTwenty]

He didn’t change direction much - a slight veer, all that discussion was lawyer speak.
Possibly he moved off his path slightly as a reflex reaction when he became aware of Maynard coming at him.

Maynard’s action was dangerous, and he knocked a bloke out and possibly has ended his career.

What happens when a bump or tackle goes wrong?

For me the big difference with a bump or tackle is that you are intentionally making contact with the other player and the onus is on you to do that safely.

Maynard didnt intentionally make contact and was already in mid air when he knew that contact would occur.

If someone takes a mark and then lands on another player's head what happens? If you collide with your own team and make contact with their head what happens?

Edit: also you can see from the vision Brayshaw didn't see him coming until the last few milliseconds so there seems no chance to say Brayshaw veered of his line as a reaction to Maynard. It was just his normal follow through after kicking but how is Maynaed to know that? You can't jump unless you know you have a clear landing zone?

 

[ghostbat12]

He didn’t change direction much - a slight veer, all that discussion was lawyer speak.
Possibly he moved off his path slightly as a reflex reaction when he became aware of Maynard coming at him.

Maynard’s action was dangerous, and he knocked a bloke out and possibly has ended his career.

What happens when a bump or tackle goes wrong?

Head isn’t that big, how much movement do you need?

You only have to change direction a little and it’s straight on the head.

Been critical of decision but can’t expect Maynard to know that brayshaw will move into him. Certainly not when ready airborne.

 

[GlennTwenty]

Poor decision by the tribual, if it was based on the claim of "legitimate football action" and "insufficient time".

The tribunals rationale said nothing about it being a football action. It was a question or whether Maynard was careless in deciding to smother and if he should have reasonably been able to predict that he would land on Brayshaw at the time he jumped for the ball.

 

[EagleEgo]

The tribunals rationale said nothing about it being a football action. It was a question or whether Maynard was careless in deciding to smother and if he should have reasonably been able to predict that he would land on Brayshaw at the time he jumped for the ball.

Even worst if it is only based on "insufficient time"!
In the future, all defender can do a "front on" smother and collect your opponent on the face disregard of whether the smother is successful or not as the defender will neve have sufficent to avoid collision.

Reference from the Guardian:

"The tribunal chair Jeff Gleeson rejected these arguments and dismissed the charge.

He said Maynard had insufficient time to make a decision that would have led to a better outcome. “It’s asking a lot of a player to decide in a fraction of a second which of various ways to land, in a high speed collision, and which of those ways of landing might result in which type of reportable offence.”

“We find that Mr Maynard was not careless in either his decision to smother or the way in which his body formed after the smother.”"

 

[EagleEgo]

I hope no player is trying to do the same act in the future. However, it is too easy to copy. What is AFL going to do?

 

[GlennTwenty]

Even worst if it is only based on "insufficient time"!
In the future, all defender can do a "front on" smother and collect your opponent on the face disregard of whether the smother is successful or not as the defender will neve have sufficent to avoid collision.

It wasn't "only" based on insufficient time. Read the whole thing. Once they decided it was reasonable to go for the smother and the It wasn't reasonable for Maynard to have predicted the outcome they then looked at whether he had sufficient time to do something other than brace for contact.

I feel really bad for Brayshaw and I know it's Collingwood and I wish nothing good for Eddie, but everyone is so wrapped up in the emotion they aren't looking at the facts. If a defender intentionally bumps a player and pretends to disguise it as a smother it would still be a bump. That's not what happened here.

 

[GlennTwenty]

I hope no player is trying to do the same act in the future. However, it is too easy to copy. What is AFL going to do?

I think this is a very unfortunate accident that would be almost impossible to replicate on purpose. AFL might over react and make a new rule for something that will never happen again anyway. Are we going to get AFL players leaping for the ball in the hope that as they land the opponent is exactly in their landing zone? Please.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Would be interesting to see a highlights package of the innocuous little things that players have been suspended for this year. The myriad of fair tackles with no malice behind them that ended in suspensions.

And then this gets ruled to be ok.

AFL is a joke. It's compromised in every facet, from draft tempering Vic kids, northern state draft academies, differing soft cap rules, 3 year CEO search only to hire the already 2nd in charge, etc etc etc.

 

[Bender_]

2. Michael Christian should never adjudicate a case involving a Collingwood player.

He shouldn't adjucate at all, he's thick as pig shit.

 

[EagleEgo]

I think this is a very unfortunate accident that would be almost impossible to replicate on purpose. AFL might over react and make a new rule for something that will never happen again anyway. Are we going to get AFL players leaping for the ball in the hope that as they land the opponent is exactly in their landing zone? Please.

Dont agree. It is a competition. Players will find every means to intimidate (assume within rule) and the ultimate goal is to win.
This is the game now put in front of our eyes.

" Are we going to get AFL players leaping for the ball in the hope that as they land the opponent is exactly in their landing zone?"
Definitely not on your opponent‘s head if you cannot successfully complete your football action.

 

[shoutsatclouds]

How much longer can Maynard be debated?

 

[EagleEgo]

How much longer can Maynard be debated?

Not until you put a more interesting topic on this Non-Eagles Discussion. (or when Bigfooty is Ads free)

 

[Seadog]

Have to agree to disagree here, I don't think it's reasonable to say he launched himself at Brayshaw, when he left the ground he has no way of knowing that Brayshaw will change direction.

He was running directly at the ball carrier, There was going to be a collision regardless of the half step Brayshaw moves off his line.
When Brayshaw looks up and sees Maynard bearing down on him he tries to avoid the collision in the millisecond available to him.
Really hard to take people blaming Brayshaw for the collision.
He should of kept running in a straight line like a normal person. Yeah na.

 

[EagleEgo]

Maynard decision labelled an “injustice” as Brayshaw’s brother explains Collingwood comments

The Magpie was cleared on Tuesday night.

www.sen.com.au

Melbourne should appeal this decision.

 

[Ochre]

There's a video of Eddie toasting the decision in a crowded room declaring justice has been done.

All over an incident where a player was knocked unconscious for 2 minutes and has career threatening concussion issues.

Definitely a situation worth celebrating over.

Proud day for the Collingwood football club

 

[GlennTwenty]

He was running directly at the ball carrier, There was going to be a collision regardless of the half step Brayshaw moves off his line.
When Brayshaw looks up and sees Maynard bearing down on him he tries to avoid the collision in the millisecond available to him.
Really hard to take people blaming Brayshaw for the collision.
He should of kept running in a straight line like a normal person. Yeah na.

Im not blaming Brayshaw at all. The point is whether Maynard could reasonably predict that when he jumps to smother he is going to land on Brayshaw and the tribunal decided (and I agree with) that:

"We accept a reasonable player would have foreseen at the moment of committing to the act of smothering that some impact with Brayshaw was possible. We find that it was not inevitable from the perspective of a player in Maynard’s position. We are not at all satisfied that a reasonable player would have foreseen that violent impact or impact of the type suffered by Brayshaw was inevitable or even likely."

 

[RookiePick]

I doubt Gaffy foresaw the violent impact when he swung a round arm at Andrew B either.

 

[KERRPOW]

There's a video of Eddie toasting the decision in a crowded room declaring justice has been done.

All over an incident where a player was knocked unconscious for 2 minutes and has career threatening concussion issues.

Definitely a situation worth celebrating over.

Another historic and proud day for the collingwood football club.

So distasteful. I hope the pies lose the prelim now

 

[Bender_]

Just gonna preface this by saying I'm not completely on board with the AFL and their concussion decisions coz I don't think it's black and white.

But Christian with his "easiest decision I've ever made" suspension on Naitanui for a tackle where he was supposed to take into account a weight differential which was unheard of at the time. Then to say Maynard is fine for knocking Brayshaw out cold is baffling.

It's not the message the AFL had been trying to send for the past 3 years. Even sling tackles that don't result in injuries are getting a week but this has no case?

Either Christian needs to be ****ed off or the AFL (unsurprisingly) is just making shit up as they go along. Or likely both.

 

[Bacchus]

Im not blaming Brayshaw at all. The point is whether Maynard could reasonably predict that when he jumps to smother he is going to land on Brayshaw and the tribunal decided (and I agree with) that:

"We accept a reasonable player would have foreseen at the moment of committing to the act of smothering that some impact with Brayshaw was possible. We find that it was not inevitable from the perspective of a player in Maynard’s position. We are not at all satisfied that a reasonable player would have foreseen that violent impact or impact of the type suffered by Brayshaw was inevitable or even likely."

Maynard ran at Brayshaw and jumped high in the air - of course he was going to collide with him. Whether this was Maynard’s intention only Maynard knows but even if it was not intentional it was careless or reckless as borne out by the result. If Maynard couldn’t control his landing he shouldn’t have run at Brayshaw and flung himself towards him like a missile.

I have been watching AFL football for a long time and can rarely if ever recall a player doing what Maynard did. A typical smother is when it is done off the boot.

The idea that it is somehow Brayshaw’s fault because he slightly moved off his line is appalling and rubs salt in the wound.

The AFL is a joke. Many experienced observers were of the opinion that Maynard would get off due to the cynical reason that the AFL does not like to rub players out for finals and especially Collingwood players.

I have no partiality towards Melbourne or Brayshaw. In fact Brayshaw has made disparaging remarks about WCE.
But watching it from an unbiased pov I do not think justice has been done.

They will probably change the rules over summer.

 

[GlennTwenty]

The idea that it is somehow Brayshaw’s fault because he slightly moved off his line is appalling and rubs salt in the wound.

I'll agree to disagree on the rest of your post but just to clarify: it isn't in anyway Brayshaw's fault. I've already said that. I've never said it was his fault and can't remember seeing anyone else saying that. Saying that Maynard didn't know which direction Brayshaw would move in is not the same as saying it is Brayshaw's fault.

Melbourne is my second team and I really rate Brayshaw. Hope we get to see him back on the footy field soon.