MFC Fans Only Non-MFC related footy chat- Lets try again Shall we(2021)

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Sonny Bonds

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Watts didn't want to do the work.
Trengove's body (foot) just shut down on him.

Martin got the best out of his mentor for Richmond through Choco Williams.

I don't agree it was poor drafting.
 

Gysberts2Bate

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Scully and Trengove were both perfectly fine top two talents IMO. Whether or not they had the ceiling of Dusty who can say, but I’m not that upset about the selections so much as the clusterfu** of general development at the time. Lucas Cook over Jack Darling upsets me more, as an example.

Whether Dusty has gone past other greats, perhaps. But the standard of the competition has also been pretty meh since 2012 IMO at the top end. Hard to measure individual greatness when there hasn’t been much at an opposition team level to stack up against - other than Sydney 2014-2017, who ironically didn’t win a flag, I don’t rate any sides as being particularly of a generational quality. Hawthorn and Richmond both major benefactors of this.

Compare that with say the early 2000s where Essendon, Brisbane, Sydney, West Coast, Adelaide and Port were all genuinely awesome sides competing against each other, and then it was Geelong, Hawthorn, St Kilda, Collingwood who could have all dominated.

Richmond have had to contend with a decent Geelong side that lacks the top end talent to compete with them, a flaky GWS and a strong West Coast side who they’ve only once had to play in Perth (2018) and coincidentally they didn’t win the flag that year. Pretty handy when you only make the top 4 by one game in your flag years to not have to make the hardest road trip in footy any of those years (not to mention not having to play in Geelong). I will give them kudos for beating Port at AO in a prelim this year though. Dusty is a great in a weak decade of footy compromised by a thinly distributed talent pool from 2010-2014. Still a great, but the comparisons don’t stack up for mine.

That being said if Petracca can achieve anything similar while the competition is so distorted I won’t complain.
 

Grimesy87

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I know Melbourne never interviewed Martin, but did any other club or recruiter say they'd have taken Martin above either of those 2?

For all the positivity around Martin now, it's easy to forget a few years back he was shopping himself around and Richmond very nearly traded him out.

In fact, the bloke probably doesn't get enough credit for turning it around himself (with choco and whoever else helped him) it's just a shame Richmond have benefited from that.

He's an absolute weapon, and I remember watching Scully being very unimpressed with his kicking and ability to hurt in his draft year, but I still believe the overall general consensus was he and trengove were 1 and 2 by a significant distance.

Hopefully the little ginger prick we took at 4 a few years back can keep improving, and we might all start to forget any draft between 2008-2013 for good.
 

PerfectFooty

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tbh i don't care if we picked scully and trengove over martin. Martin required a lot of effort and a stable enviroment to work in. If Martin played for us he would have been a grimes like 100 gamer and then gone
 

Dory_77

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I know Melbourne never interviewed Martin, but did any other club or recruiter say they'd have taken Martin above either of those 2?

For all the positivity around Martin now, it's easy to forget a few years back he was shopping himself around and Richmond very nearly traded him out.

In fact, the bloke probably doesn't get enough credit for turning it around himself (with choco and whoever else helped him) it's just a shame Richmond have benefited from that.

He's an absolute weapon, and I remember watching Scully being very unimpressed with his kicking and ability to hurt in his draft year, but I still believe the overall general consensus was he and trengove were 1 and 2 by a significant distance.

Hopefully the little ginger prick we took at 4 a few years back can keep improving, and we might all start to forget any draft between 2008-2013 for good.
Good post. Martin wasn't far off from being at GWS, and probably wasn't far off just getting the sack (after the Japanese restaurant incident I recall it was on the cards, maybe?).
The 09 draft thread was bumped recently and there was no mention of him in that. At the time Scull-gove were a pretty consensus top 2. Butcher the other to get a few mentions. Hindsight makes it look very bad, and it is, but Martin's career hasn't been smooth sailing bar the last 4-5 years. With us, and the disaster of the Need era, I really doubt he'd have wound up as much a gun for us.
 

Topkent

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Good post. Martin wasn't far off from being at GWS, and probably wasn't far off just getting the sack (after the Japanese restaurant incident I recall it was on the cards, maybe?).
The 09 draft thread was bumped recently and there was no mention of him in that. At the time Scull-gove were a pretty consensus top 2. Butcher the other to get a few mentions. Hindsight makes it look very bad, and it is, but Martin's career hasn't been smooth sailing bar the last 4-5 years. With us, and the disaster of the Need era, I really doubt he'd have wound up as much a gun for us.
He wasn't even close to getting the sack lol the lady was a money grabber who made up a story, the club backed him 100%

Again 'wasnt far off GWS' or his manager just did the rounds to get him a better deal. Only one of Scully and Martin was enough of a scum bag to ditch the club that drafted him, Martin would have been 23 when Roos and George Stone came in, I'm sure he would have been ok.
 

Dory_77

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He wasn't even close to getting the sack lol the lady was a money grabber who made up a story, the club backed him 100%

Again 'wasnt far off GWS' or his manager just did the rounds to get him a better deal. Only one of Scully and Martin was enough of a scum bag to ditch the club that drafted him, Martin would have been 23 when Roos and George Stone came in, I'm sure he would have been ok.
From what I remember he didn't end up getting a better deal from the GWS shopping. Tigers were going to let him go and GWS were keen but got scuttled higher up the chain. There was these articles not long ago: https://www.google.com/amp/s/couple...t/news-story/f2c464c5efaddee2bceaece08fc501f1. maybe rewriting history, but sounds like it was very close and didn't score much more from the Tigers.
Would've been interesting to see if he did make it under us if Goody would have the same aversion to blokes who love the nose beers.
 

Topkent

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From what I remember he didn't end up getting a better deal from the GWS shopping. Tigers were going to let him go and GWS were keen but got scuttled higher up the chain. There was these articles not long ago: https://www.google.com/amp/s/couple...t/news-story/f2c464c5efaddee2bceaece08fc501f1. maybe rewriting history, but sounds like it was very close and didn't score much more from the Tigers.
Would've been interesting to see if he did make it under us if Goody would have the same aversion to blokes who love the nose beers.
Goody wouldn't have a problem with people doing nose beers, the two he f’ed off are both one step away from retirement. It was their sh*t footy and commitment. If you don't think half our list isn't out on that you're kidding yaself
 

stEdy

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The amazing thing about Tiges getting Dusty was the tanking game where Jordan McMahon kicked that goal after the siren for them to beat us and deliver us Picks 1+2.

An actual sliding doors moment that Damo would be proud of.

EDIT: If we had pick 1 and they had pick 2, i'm sure they would haved drafted Trengove, given they chased him 4-5 years later but then had to pull out as their medical showed his foot was still f’ed.
 

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schmuttt

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Dustys manager literally said earlier this year the Dusty move to GWS was agreed but someone at GWS at board level vetoed it.
 

Blackas87

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I know Melbourne never interviewed Martin, but did any other club or recruiter say they'd have taken Martin above either of those 2?
Not sure about recruiters but I remember watching his draft YouTube videos at the time and a lot of people were commenting saying he should be the number one pick (and Scully was overrated). It was always in the back of my mind that this Martin guy could be better than Scully based on those YouTube comments.
 

Grimesy87

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Not sure about recruiters but I remember watching his draft YouTube videos at the time and a lot of people were commenting saying he should be the number one pick (and Scully was overrated). It was always in the back of my mind that this Martin guy could be better than Scully based on those YouTube comments.
People have opinions off YouTube footage,literally all the time. There are still dees supporters admitting they would have taken parish over Oliver off the videos, just as there are some saying they wanted Curnow over weideman (for example) and I'm sure that is only stronger over 17 other clubs.

As you said, you're not sure if recruiters did. And that's fair, it's a brave recruiter to put their hand up many years post draft and say you'd take someone average over a star. Which is why I asked, I thought there may have been comments post draft.

Our recruiters are guilty of not doing their due diligence by even interviewing Martin in the lead up. There is nothing surer.

But I've not seen any real evidence of anyone- recruiters or list managers notably- declare they would have taken Martin over scully or trengove either prior or immediately post draft. And other than Melbourne employed recruiters at the time, they are the ones watching hours of footage and live games often multiple years in advance before the draft rather than some guys who have seen YouTube footage amounting to mere minutes
 

Topkent

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Recruiting was poor in general in that period, there was a higher premium placed on athletic ability than football ability. I remember pre draft people were comparing Scully to Judd, I'm sorry but even 18 year old me could see Scully wasn't nothing like Judd.
 

00Stinger

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Recruiting was poor in general in that period, there was a higher premium placed on athletic ability than football ability. I remember pre draft people were comparing Scully to Judd, I'm sorry but even 18 year old me could see Scully wasn't nothing like Judd.
At the end of the 2010 season there were heaps of commentators/journalists saying that this was the best top 3 since 2001

Now I hate Scully as much as the next Melbourne supporter but his 7th game where he had 39 touches and 21 or so came in the last quarter against a top 4 team in the Bulldogs was ******* as impressive as it gets. That is when the Judd comparisons came.

In fact thinking back after he injured his knee after his first season he was never the same, you could probably argue that his first season was his best
 

Grimesy87

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Recruiting was poor in general in that period, there was a higher premium placed on athletic ability than football ability. I remember pre draft people were comparing Scully to Judd, I'm sorry but even 18 year old me could see Scully wasn't nothing like Judd.
I never saw that either, after reading those comparisons. His kicking really lacked penetration and he definitely had no explosiveness, but people paid more than me felt the comparisons were fair and that natural progression would take him there.

Funny enough, I thought trengove would end up the better player. But you're right, that recruiting philosophy set us back years. Players with no footballing skill but could run and jump lol
 

schmuttt

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I never saw that either, after reading those comparisons. His kicking really lacked penetration and he definitely had no explosiveness, but people paid more than me felt the comparisons were fair and that natural progression would take him there.

Funny enough, I thought trengove would end up the better player. But you're right, that recruiting philosophy set us back years. Players with no footballing skill but could run and jump lol
And you would have been right if it wasn’t for the foot injuries.
 

Gysberts2Bate

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Scully’s development tanked after he went to GWS + he had a recurring knee injury and he still made two AA squads so it’s not as though he was a bust. Probably better than the majority of early draft picks. The one thing I’m most envious of with Dusty is his ridiculous injury-proofedness. Has barely missed a game his entire career.
 

Topkent

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Scully’s development tanked after he went to GWS + he had a recurring knee injury and he still made two AA squads so it’s not as though he was a bust. Probably better than the majority of early draft picks. The one thing I’m most envious of with Dusty is his ridiculous injury-proofedness. Has barely missed a game his entire career.
That's the thing you're jealous of?
Not his incredible big game legacy, not his almost unbelievable strength for a midfielder? His don't argue? His 60m bombs?

His injury history lol
 

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