MFC Fans Only Non Demons Footy Chat 2023 - incl. AFL Grand Final

[Dory_77]

He wouldnt have even gone as high as he did if not for the under 18's granny where he kicked 7 (I think). Proved he was a big game player all the way back then and its remained that way all thru out his career.

Thought he ended up with 10?

In any case, gun player, and agree re Pendles. My favourite non-Dee player for a while. Such a smooth mover and calm head. The composure of Collingwood is something I doubt we can really replicate. When things get tight we play very dumb.

 

[BaliDemon]

He wouldnt have even gone as high as he did if not for the under 18's granny where he kicked 7 (I think). Proved he was a big game player all the way back then and its remained that way all thru out his career.

He actually kicked 10 in that U/18’s Granny. I remember watching it live on the morning of AFL GF day thinking, “How good is this kid? 5’10, not much of him, waltzing around defenders slotting them through like he’s Tony Lockett.” Did not miss.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Thought he ended up with 10?

In any case, gun player, and agree re Pendles. My favourite non-Dee player for a while. Such a smooth mover and calm head. The composure of Collingwood is something I doubt we can really replicate. When things get tight we play very dumb.

You are correct.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

I think I was thinking of Amon Buchanan

Amon Buchanan

Age

41

Ht

179cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.6

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

3.2

5star

G

0.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

6.6

2star

K

2.8

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

0.2

3star

who kicked 6 or 7 in the year my brother won the flag in 2000 with the Geelong Falcons for some reason.

Another player who ended up being far better than where he went in the draft (rookie draft pick). Just shows clutch performances in the grand finals often transfer over to AFL.

 

[mrmonkey]

He wouldnt have even gone as high as he did if not for the under 18's granny where he kicked 7 (I think). Proved he was a big game player all the way back then and its remained that way all thru out his career.

As already mentioned a big 10 on grand final certainly put him on the radar. Was what I was thinking when he slotted the sealer in the last. I don't remember much from that draft, I know I liked Rich but yeah that sidebottom performance certainly gave me an eyebrow raise.

 

[stEdy]

How's the Pies winning a flag with Billy Frampton

17

Billy Frampton

Age

27

Ht

201cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.1

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

0.7

3star

MG

99.0

2star

D

8.5

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

99.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.0

3star

MG

107.0

2star

, Cox, Cameron and Mihocek as their talls. Crazy

 

[BaliDemon]

How's the Pies winning a flag with Billy Frampton, Cox, Cameron and Mihocek as their talls. Crazy

1 goal between the four of them.

 

[Topkent]

Have to agree. The hand-wringing is getting a bit silly. Marginal difference if any between us and Pies, Bris, Blues, GWS. Competition among the top 4-6 is very even now. You need a clean bill of health with injuries and you need to kick accurately for goal. Fall down in one or both of those areas and things get tough. Quickly.

Yes, we need to make some minor adjustments and sort the forward line personnel issue out but this notion that we are a mile off it is not right.

So then logically you'd still have Geelong and Sydney above us as flag threats as they were in the GF in 2022. Or would you admit that things have changed since they won the flag same as with us?

 

[Topkent]

How's the Pies winning a flag with Billy Frampton, Cox, Cameron and Mihocek as their talls. Crazy

Pretty much proves dumping everything we have into a KF would be a complete waste of time. They aren't that important

 

[BaliDemon]

So then logically you'd still have Geelong and Sydney above us as flag threats as they were in the GF in 2022. Or would you admit that things have changed since they won the flag same as with us?

Different kettles of fish.

Geelong reached the summit, then their talisman retired (Selwood) and Danger & Smith got a year older. Can’t stay up forever. The cliff can come quickly.

Sydney it’s generally agreed made a surprise GF appearance, ahead of schedule. Which showed on GF day with a blowout loss. It happens occasionally.

Our situation is not the same as those two sides. We were just in two finals up to our necks (one against the eventual premier in which we controlled large periods of the game) despite a horrid run of injury luck and the significant hit of losing Jackson at the end of ‘22.

We are not far off it I’m telling you. Not the time to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Topkent]

Different kettles of fish.

Geelong reached the summit, then their talisman retired (Selwood) and Danger & Smith got a year older. Can’t stay up forever. The cliff can come quickly.

Sydney it’s generally agreed made a surprise GF appearance, ahead of schedule. Which showed on GF day with a blowout loss. It happens occasionally.

Could use the same argument. May and Gawn get a year older. Hibberd Brown Tmac and Melk all gone or finished. Depth players dropping off. Nothing coming up from underneath just more of the same

Sydney made finals again and are stacked with improving kids. No guarantee we are better next year

 

[Topkent]

People are still stuck thinking we are amazing because of 21' may aswell think the tigers are great as well. From round 10 on in both 22' and 23' we weren't a top 4 side. That's the important part of the year. We are a bottom of the 8 side and that's what we'll continue to be with minor Improvements

 

[Down the throat]

People are still stuck thinking we are amazing because of 21' may aswell think the tigers are great as well. From round 10 on in both 22' and 23' we weren't a top 4 side. That's the important part of the year. We are a bottom of the 8 side and that's what we'll continue to be with minor Improvements

That was right for last year but not this year. We won 7 of our last 8 Home and Away games and lost the pivotal final by just 7 points to the eventual premier.

We played a both finals with half a forward line - our two match winners down there - one back after a long layoff and the other a little suspect in big games.

I agree with you that our style is awful and we didn't deserve to win either of our finals - but Goodwin showed a willingness to change late season when he had figured out the right personal mix - but then two of them got injured and he reverted to type.

Whether he would have held his nerve with that new set up we will never know.

I also agree with you that we need a couple of kickers with licensed to take the fast corridor kick rather than spend capital on a KPF. What we have is fine (if they're not injured or suspended).

 

[Topkent]

That was right for last year but not this year. We won 7 of our last 8 Home and Away games and lost the pivotal final by just 7 points to the eventual premier.

We played a both finals with half a forward line - our two match winners down there - one back after a long layoff and the other a little suspect in big games.

I agree with you that our style is awful and we didn't deserve to win either of our finals - but Goodwin showed a willingness to change late season when he had figured out the right personal mix - but then two of them got injured and he reverted to type.

Whether he would have held his nerve with that new set up we will never know.

I also agree with you that we need a couple of kickers with licensed to take the fast corridor kick rather than spend capital on a KPF. What we have is fine (if they're not injured or suspended).

GWS and Carlton both had better records than us in the second half of the season and also better in finals.

 

[Johnny Karate]

GWS and Carlton both had better records than us in the second half of the season and also better in finals.

I think the other part of it for mine is that while we won a few games, there wasn’t a heap against quality opposition. For example we went from 3-2 to 7-2 with wins against Richmond, North, Hawthorn and Gold Coast (all finished bottom 6). From 9-6 to 16-7 we defeated St Kilda, Brisbane, Richmond, North, Hawthorn, Adelaide and Sydney. 3 bottom 6 sides, one that missed the 8 and 2 bottom of the 8 sides and the Lions. While we played some good footy and some of the wins were enjoyable, there wasn’t a heap there to leave you utterly convinced that we were going to win the flag.

 

[Topkent]

I think the other part of it for mine is that while we won a few games, there wasn’t a heap against quality opposition. For example we went from 3-2 to 7-2 with wins against Richmond, North, Hawthorn and Gold Coast (all finished bottom 6). From 9-6 to 16-7 we defeated St Kilda, Brisbane, Richmond, North, Hawthorn, Adelaide and Sydney. 3 bottom 6 sides, one that missed the 8 and 2 bottom of the 8 sides and the Lions. While we played some good footy and some of the wins were enjoyable, there wasn’t a heap there to leave you utterly convinced that we were going to win the flag.

Yep 16-7 is a good record, not a great one and not far off a bottom of the 8 one.

 

[Tulip]

Yep 16-7 is a good record, not a great one and not far off a bottom of the 8 one.

Have to account for the extra game this season. We still finished 2.5 games inside the 4. Very few teams made the 4 with 7 losses in the 22 round seasons, shows how much of a difference it made

 

[Topkent]

Have to account for the extra game this season. We still finished 2.5 games inside the 4. Very few teams made the 4 with 7 losses in the 22 round seasons, shows how much of a difference it made

We got lucky Carlton and GWS only started playing halfway through the year.

 

[Major Colvin]

Yeah Collingwood have definitely been the best team when at their best but leading up to the grand final their form was definitely below their best. Kudos to them getting it right on the day, just shows you just need to get there and anything could happen. Game really comes down to mistakes, Collingwood just made less mistakes or certainly less obvious mistakes. There is an element of luck in those close games but it's more than luck for Collingwood they've proven over the last two years when it gets tight they just don't make mistakes which is why they get up so often in close games.

Collingwood have a knack in the last two seasons of kicking one or successive goals when they are being seriously challenged - there's no luck in that, it's the sign of a very well drilled and talented team.

Case in point in the GF, Collingwood (predictably in my view) kicked 3-4 red time goals, and particular at the end of the 2nd quarter after Brisbane went up by 13 points. Then after Cameron put Brisbane in front with 5 mins to go, Collingwood (again predictably) hit the front 30 seconds later courtesy of DeGoey. The centre bounce was the most important of the season and if Brisbane won it and kicked another they would have won the flag, but this Collingwood team won the clearances they need to

We on the other hand have a knack of routinely frittering away opportunities. We can certainly lament the 30+ more inside 50's we had against the Pies and 10 extra scoring shots than Carlton but unfortunately it fits the pattern of our last two seasons. A team that panics under pressure going forward. Even if we had somehow fallen over the line against Carlton, we would have not have beaten Brisbane because despite the close losses we were just playing awful footy.

Thoughts on the GF - great game and credit to both teams (again one we had no business participating in).

The umpiring decisions in the last few minutes soured the result for mine - not to take anything away from Collingwood they deserved their win. The 50m penalty, perhaps it was there but it's a very heavy price to pay for the Brisbane player that was essentially in the action of play and not malicious.

Then the advantage paid for Brisbane was truly awful. Again if there's been a theme in the umpiring this season particularly in close games (Adelaide/Sydney umpiring decision) is that the umpires have IMO panicked, made wrong decisions and then allowed the play to just continue rather than have the guts to admit they made the wrong call. The advantage call (whilst technically there because Brisbane played on) - should have also been obvious to the umpire that the players had not heard the call.

Unfortunately for Brisbane, its going to be hard for them to get back there next year. Coaches love to play on the ''need to lose one to win one'' - but almost entirely a raffle as to whether they get another shot at it. I reckon Saturday was their best shot.

 

[BaliDemon]

Yep 16-7 is a good record, not a great one and not far off a bottom of the 8 one.

Our seven losses were by the following margins: 12, 4, 7, 15, 4, 7, 2

We beat the two Grand Finalists and missed second by 4 points. Had a better percentage than Brisbane, too.

All with a shoddy, makeshift forward line for most of the year and no Clarry for 10 weeks.

“Damn close to top two” is more accurate than “bottom of the 8”.

 

[BaliDemon]

Also, suck sh1t Zorko.

 

[Topkent]

Our seven losses were by the following margins: 12, 4, 7, 15, 4, 7, 2

We beat the two Grand Finalists and missed second by 4 points. Had a better percentage than Brisbane, too.

All with a shoddy, makeshift forward line for most of the year and no Clarry for 10 weeks.

“Damn close to top two” is more accurate than “bottom of the 8”.

Our losses were small because we played s**t boring footy that dragged the contest into 60-60 games.

We played our best footy without Clarry and then even shitter when he rocked back in to Torp it 70m

Out in god damn straight sets again. That's the bottom line

 

[BaliDemon]

Our losses were small because we played s**t boring footy that dragged the contest into 60-60 games.

We played our best footy without Clarry and then even shitter when he rocked back in to Torp it 70m

Out in god damn straight sets again. That's the bottom line

I think the coach felt we had to play s**t boring footy at times because we had a forward six that just couldn’t be trusted to kick a winning score.

We recruited Brodie effing Grundy to help solve our forward line woes. No-one else was available. He ended up playing for Casey. Season over right there effectively.

Forward line. It was the problem heading into the season. It was the problem in the finals. Straight sets was bad not condoning it bit there were mitigating circumstances.

Let’s see if the club fixes this issue properly this trade and draft period because if they don’t I’ll fully side with you that we’re going nowhere.

 

[Topkent]

I think the coach felt we had to play s**t boring footy at times because we had a forward six that just couldn’t be trusted to kick a winning score.

We recruited Brodie effing Grundy to help solve our forward line woes. No-one else was available. He ended up playing for Casey. Season over right there effectively.

Forward line. It was the problem heading into the season. It was the problem in the finals. Straight sets was bad not condoning it bit there were mitigating circumstances.

Let’s see if the club fixes this issue properly this trade and draft period because if they don’t I’ll fully side with you that we’re going nowhere.

Definitely going around In circles on this but your forward 6 isn't responsible for kicking massive scores anyway it's a team effort these days. Pies won the flag with an atrocious forward 6 that really isn't much better than ours. We play crap footy because our midfield is a possession first midfield not worried about how they used the ball

 

[mrmonkey]

Collingwood have a knack in the last two seasons of kicking one or successive goals when they are being seriously challenged - there's no luck in that, it's the sign of a very well drilled and talented team.

Case in point in the GF, Collingwood (predictably in my view) kicked 3-4 red time goals, and particular at the end of the 2nd quarter after Brisbane went up by 13 points. Then after Cameron put Brisbane in front with 5 mins to go, Collingwood (again predictably) hit the front 30 seconds later courtesy of DeGoey. The centre bounce was the most important of the season and if Brisbane it and kicked another they would have won the flag, but this Collingwood team won the clearances they need to

We on the other hand have a knack of routinely frittering away opportunities. We can certainly lament the 30+ more inside 50's we had against the Pies and 10 extra scoring shots than Carlton but unfortunately it fits the pattern of our last two seasons. A team that panics under pressure going forward. Even if we had somehow fallen over the line against Carlton, we would have not have beaten Brisbane because despite the close losses we were just playing awful footy.

Thoughts on the GF - great game and credit to both teams (again one we had no business participating in).

The umpiring decisions in the last few minutes soured the result for mine - not to take anything away from Collingwood they deserved their win. The 50m penalty, perhaps it was there but it's a very heavy price to pay for an action the Brisbane player that was essentially in the action of play and not malicious.

Then the advantage paid for Brisbane was truly awful. Again if there's been a theme in the umpiring this season particularly in close games (Adelaide/Sydney umpiring decision) is that the umpires have IMO panicked, made wrong decisions and then allowed the play to just continue rather than have the guts to admit they made the wrong call. The advantage call (whilst technically there because Brisbane played on) - should have also been obvious to the umpire that the players had not heard the call.

Unfortunately for Brisbane, its going to be hard for them to get back there next year. Coaches love to play on the ''need to win one to lose one'' - but almost entirely a raffle as to whether they get another shot at it. I reckon Saturday was their best shot.

I'm just saying that in close games there's an element of luck. I'm not saying Collingwood are just this lucky team, all those points you make I agree with, they are a really well drilled team and they can really defend a lead when it comes down to the wire.