Once you lose the players, do you ever really get them back?

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King Elvis

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"A lack of faith that began last year and transcended through to the footy boss Brett Burton after the Collective Minds debacle.

"We know that coaches left and some senior assistants left disenchanted with the club. There were deep divisions.

"What they've got now is a series of line coaches, all of whom are doing these particular jobs; defence, forward and midfield, for the first time."

While the Crows have made it clear that the drama surrounding the controversial pre-season camp that hampered the side in 2018 is in the rear-view mirror, Wilson suggested that the ill-effects of the camp still remain.

"They're calling it a crisis in Adelaide," she said.

"We know that around the time of the Grand Final the club extended Don Pyke's contract, as they did with Brenton Sanderson around the time he led the club to a Preliminary Final. That seemed like a smart decision at the time.

"Players are asking, 'Why didn't we go out and recruit a ruckman? Why didn't we go for someone like Braydon Preuss? Is the footy department spending capped?'

"All the things that we know and love about the Adelaide football club are letting them down. I don't know if the club is a particularly happy place at the moment.

"Guys like (Matthew) Clarke and James Podsiadly, the more popular coaches, haven't been around. I just wonder where it's going now for Don Pyke."
Caro is a pain in the arse, and this is a clever article just effectively rehashing known issues...

But the bold are known issues, or are things that have actually occurred.

What I've underlined is very interesting - but makes sense. If you're a Crows player, and you see an exodus of quality coaches who are all replaced with rookies (or internal promotions/appointments), you'd be asking question about how serious the Club is about succeeding.
 

CrowinNT

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So Gibbs got a boot up the clacker after R1, felt that he was building form, got positive feedback after both R2 and R3, then gets a phone call last Thursday to say he was dumped.

Nice work - no issues between coach and players I’m sure.
That was a surprising number of insightful words from him
 

TexForPM

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This turned up online this morning



Caroline Wilson: Adelaide Crows players losing faith in coach Don Pyke

After starting the season as one of the premiership favourites, the Adelaide Crows find themselves in a 1-3 hole, on the back of a horror 2018 season.

According to AFL reporter Caroline Wilson, the poor start to the 2019 season has resulted in a lack of faith between Adelaide's playing group and coach Don Pyke.

"What's emerging now is just talk of maybe a lack of faith among some of the players and their coach," Wilson told Footy Classified.

"A lack of faith that began last year and transcended through to the footy boss Brett Burton after the Collective Minds debacle.

"We know that coaches left and some senior assistants left disenchanted with the club. There were deep divisions.

"What they've got now is a series of line coaches, all of whom are doing these particular jobs; defence, forward and midfield, for the first time."

While the Crows have made it clear that the drama surrounding the controversial pre-season camp that hampered the side in 2018 is in the rear-view mirror, Wilson suggested that the ill-effects of the camp still remain.

"They're calling it a crisis in Adelaide," she said.

"We know that around the time of the Grand Final the club extended Don Pyke's contract, as they did with Brenton Sanderson around the time he led the club to a Preliminary Final. That seemed like a smart decision at the time.

"Players are asking, 'Why didn't we go out and recruit a ruckman? Why didn't we go for someone like Braydon Preuss? Is the footy department spending capped?'

"All the things that we know and love about the Adelaide football club are letting them down. I don't know if the club is a particularly happy place at the moment.

"Guys like (Matthew) Clarke and James Podsiadly, the more popular coaches, haven't been around. I just wonder where it's going now for Don Pyke."

Pyke came under criticism prior to the Crows' Round 4 defeat at the hands of the Kangaroos for his decision to drop star midfielder Bryce Gibbs, and according to AFL great Chris Judd the move was a sign of trouble.

"I thought it was interesting that they dropped Bryce Gibbs," Judd told Footy Classified.

"It was the type of move you make when you want to send a message. What message that was, we don't know, but it looks like there's some trouble going on."

Adelaide's leadership group has also come under fire and Bombers great Matthew Lloyd raised questions surrounding the captaincy of Taylor Walker.

"If you're not kicking goals as a full-forward, it's a tough place to captain from," Lloyd told Footy Classified.

"I remember when I got given the job, there were some around the place that reckon a full-forward isn't the place for a captain because you're not in the action enough.

"Tex Walker has laid eight tackles in four games, so if you're not kicking goals, you're not applying pressure, you'd want to be doing a lot of things right around the football club."

After being the club's sole captain, Walker was forced to share the role with co-captain Rory Sloane this year, and Judd admitted that he found the move "strange".

"I thought it was strange in the end," he said.
All i hear is maybe this maybe that.

Don't forget she crucified Richmond and Hardwick and Collingwood and Buckley.

Shes paid to write her opinion.
 

SaltPeter

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All i hear is maybe this maybe that.

Don't forget she crucified Richmond and Hardwick and Collingwood and Buckley.

Shes paid to write her opinion.
She didn’t write it. It was an article written based on comments, opinions and conversations from last nights Footy Classified
 

King Elvis

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So Gibbs got a boot up the clacker after R1, felt that he was building form, got positive feedback after both R2 and R3, then gets a phone call last Thursday to say he was dumped.

Nice work - no issues between coach and players I’m sure.
This is why I'm inclined to believe Jackson Edwards; and feedback from people like The Metric System about the communication between the coaching and playing group being up s**t creek.

They paint themselves into a corner due to their bulls**t selection methodology; they then have to justify departing from it (dropping Gibbs as we're a performance based industry), and will then make hypocrites of themselves when they revert to it.
 

Murray2503

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So Gibbs got a boot up the clacker after R1, felt that he was building form, got positive feedback after both R2 and R3, then gets a phone call last Thursday to say he was dumped.

Nice work - no issues between coach and players I’m sure.
The issue here is that there were players worse than Gibbs who were not dropped. That causes a divide. Why are those players treated differently? Obviously someone higher up is pulling strings and determining who is dropped and more importantly who is never dropped. Those two geniuses pulling strings are also in control of list management. This is the single most important job at a club. If they are influencing selection which I suspect they could then this is a conflict of interest which should never happen.
 
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James_37

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The issue here is that there were players worse than Gibbs who were not dropped. That causes a divide. Why are those players treated differently? Obviously someone higher up is pulling strings and determining who is dropped and more importantly who is never dropped. Those two geniuses pulling strings are also in control of list management. This is the single most important job at a club. If they are influencing selection which I suspect they could then this is a conflict of interest which should never happen.
Yeah this is exactly it. Our issues haven’t been down to one player and Gibbs, whilst not performing well, was not the worst.

I think it smacks of the coaching staff/powers that be believing that we would beat North easily either way, but wanted to be seen to be doing something, to be taking a stand, without actually changing anything. We win, they were justified in largely sticking true, they can claim Gibbs “responded well” and easily drop Poholke or CEY to bring him back in. It was win-win, or at least until we got pumped by a winless team. Chances are we’ll stick fat again, bring Gibbs back for Jones and assume we’ll beat the Gold Coast and finally be able to justify our approach.
 

kulak

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So Gibbs got a boot up the clacker after R1, felt that he was building form, got positive feedback after both R2 and R3, then gets a phone call last Thursday to say he was dumped.

Nice work - no issues between coach and players I’m sure.
Correct

Whether or not you think dropping Gibbs was correct (I think it was correct)

It sounds like Gibbs does not agree. And is sufficiently upset to make a gentle complaint about it in the media.

Pyke incapable of having an honest conversation with his player?

The player incapable of taking that feedback on board?

Either way it doesn’t look promising
 

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kulak

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You'd be surprised by how people think they can overcome others incompetence and drag them along through nothing more than pure determination. I have no doubt Pyke would think he can do that.
Interestingly, both competent and incompetent people think they are doing this
 

kulak

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Yeah this is exactly it. Our issues haven’t been down to one player and Gibbs, whilst not performing well, was not the worst.

I think it smacks of the coaching staff/powers that be believing that we would beat North easily either way, but wanted to be seen to be doing something, to be taking a stand, without actually changing anything. We win, they were justified in largely sticking true, they can claim Gibbs “responded well” and easily drop Poholke or CEY to bring him back in. It was win-win, or at least until we got pumped by a winless team. Chances are we’ll stick fat again, bring Gibbs back for Jones and assume we’ll beat the Gold Coast and finally be able to justify our approach.
I think this is overanalysing it a bit

More likely we wanted to drop Gibbs to send a message to him and the playing group about what happens if you are a bit casual

The kind of short term pain for long term culture improvement this board commonly (rightly) goes on about

However that goes alongside an honest conversation with the player so they take on board the feedback. Rather than the player deciding it is dumb and waiting for it to be reversed which appears to be what is happening here.
 

Southerntakeover

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I'm not sold this is losing the players per se. That implies we have a plan that could win, and the players aren't trying.

That's not what I'm seeing.

I'm seeing a coach who's been unable to change anything for years, and who now has the worst collection of assistants in the AFL.

The players are going side ways because opposition teams know exactly where we're looking to move the ball, and are camping players there. We look up, see them, can't do what we want, so take the easy option. A good coach is constantly adjusting his strategy year on year to keep up with trends in the game. It looks to me like we havent done this.

This is Neil Craig mark II. Was able to come up with one game plan, it worked early on, the game moved on and the game plan itself became part of the reason we struggled. Neil couldn't come up with a second plan, and it looks like Pyke has failed to as well.

That's why we might as well move him on. It can't get better from here. The opposition aren't going to forget how to beat our one plan.
 

Barneythecrab

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This is why I'm inclined to believe Jackson Edwards; and feedback from people like The Metric System about the communication between the coaching and playing group being up s**t creek.

They paint themselves into a corner due to their bulls**t selection methodology; they then have to justify departing from it (dropping Gibbs as we're a performance based industry), and will then make hypocrites of themselves when they revert to it.
The interview with Jackson Edwards, if what he said is true, supports the fact that communication at the club between coaches and players is poor. However, I do not believe that the club doesn’t want to win a GF etc. I just do not believe they have people in charge who actually have an idea of what and who is needed to be employed for a premiership to occur.
 

Southerntakeover

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The interview with Jackson Edwards, if what he said is true, supports the fact that communication at the club between coaches and players is poor. However, I do not believe that the club doesn’t want to win a GF etc. I just do not believe they have people in charge who actually have an idea of what and who is needed to be employed for a premiership to occur.
Yeah, but there's a difference between wanting to win a grand final, and being willing to do everything necessary to do that. We've always actively avoided periods of pain to allow elite talent to accumulate, and it's hard to believe we are prepared to suffer that.
 

Vikingblood

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So currently not at AFL standard are:
Josh Jenkins
Lachie Murphy
Myles Poholke
Kyle Hartigan
Tom Lynch (hurts me to say that, but true)
Rory Atkins
Riley Knight
David Mackay

Never going to win a game with seven spuds, some lazy too, running around out there.
The only talent out or to come back is Seed, Sauce, Dougie, Fog. We are in a world of trouble unless the Pyke robot can reverse this quickly.
 

Murray2503

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So currently not at AFL standard are:
Josh Jenkins
Lachie Murphy
Myles Poholke
Kyle Hartigan
Tom Lynch (hurts me to say that, but true)
Rory Atkins
Riley Knight
David Mackay

Never going to win a game with seven spuds, some lazy too, running around out there.
The only talent out or to come back is Seed, Sauce, Dougie, Fog. We are in a world of trouble unless the Pyke robot can reverse this quickly.
Agree with the non afl standard players you mentioned above. Betts is also a concern. Would look at dropping him if his form doesn't pick up and feel he will retire early at the end of this year. Knight has some talent but not sure what has gone wrong with him. Need to most likely move him end of year if we can extract some value. Seed will add something when fit along with brown who will add some stability as the small defender. Doedee is the big loss which has forced a reliance on kelly and hartigan. Both s**t players. Disagree on Douglas and Jacob's. Both finished. Disagree with your point we have no one else on our list. If players aren't given an opportunity how do we know they aren't afl standard? That is Don's main problem. I believe Gallucci, Davis, Himmelberg, Stengle, Mchenry, Sholl, Hamill, Mcadam have a lot of potential but they must be played. Currently we are going nowhere with ROB/Jacob's, Mackay/Douglas, Atkins, Kelly, Hartigan, Murphy, Lynch, Jenkins, Cey, Poholke. The other big concern is Walker. If he keeps putting up poor performances he must be dropped. Our squad has the nucleus of a good team but we must do some things end of the year. Clean out our playing list. Trade some players out and get as much value as possible. Trade in a ruck. Grundy would be ideal. Trade/draft in a key defender. Trade/draft a mid with speed. If we could also jag rankine in the next year or two that would be ideal. The concerning part for me is that we should have done this at the end of last year where we had the picks to accomplish a lot of this.
 
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Elite Crow

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I'm not sold this is losing the players per se. That implies we have a plan that could win, and the players aren't trying.

That's not what I'm seeing.

I'm seeing a coach who's been unable to change anything for years, and who now has the worst collection of assistants in the AFL.

The players are going side ways because opposition teams know exactly where we're looking to move the ball, and are camping players there. We look up, see them, can't do what we want, so take the easy option. A good coach is constantly adjusting his strategy year on year to keep up with trends in the game. It looks to me like we havent done this.

This is Neil Craig mark II. Was able to come up with one game plan, it worked early on, the game moved on and the game plan itself became part of the reason we struggled. Neil couldn't come up with a second plan, and it looks like Pyke has failed to as well.

That's why we might as well move him on. It can't get better from here. The opposition aren't going to forget how to beat our one plan.
Pyke isn’t a coach he’s a manager.

He has his plan and he spends all preseason and season managing the team to perform to the plan.

When the plan doesn’t work he doesn’t coach his way around it, he just doubles down.
 

Elite Crow

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So Gibbs got a boot up the clacker after R1, felt that he was building form, got positive feedback after both R2 and R3, then gets a phone call last Thursday to say he was dumped.

Nice work - no issues between coach and players I’m sure.
I didn’t read the article but if that’s the jist of it you’ve got to question what’s going on, well you do anyway given our performances.

It’s clear he was the sacrificial lamb to send a message and yet what role was he playing? His midfield time had diminished with Brad and Sloane fit, he was pushed around to fix holes.

I said last week he should be at half back replacing Milera who then becomes a Mid, we are moving Milera there weekly anyway, might as well make it permanent. Gibbs then settles down at half back.
 

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