Analysis Our forward line - KPF depth?

[hurlygurdy]

In an ideal world as far as this week goes;
TBC, Gumby (if dry), Davey
Licka, resting mid, Crameri
Don't like the chances of both Crameri and Licka getting up though. If one of them doesn't, then give Gumby a roaming role and bring Carlisle forward.
Don't understand what has happened with Davey. He seems really hard done by. Got dropped after kicking two goals in a game! We have looked worse and worse since he has not been in the team. Is he playing reserves with some sort of restrictive niggle?

 

[Whispering_Jack]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-08-06/dons-forwards-going-backwards

 

[rines]

spot on Bruno.. at this stage I think you could look at a 'hot spot' running map of say Gumby's game on Sunday and not be able to see any clear patterns... whilst that does make us 'unpredictable' to the opposition.. it also means that our mids are flying blind.

Compare that to the Pies leading patterns.. for one they work very very hard on blocking and double leads and two.. they have structures that essentially mean there is always 1 bloke in the central corridor about 35m out.. 1 bloke leading straight up at the ball carrier and 1 bloke that leads hard at the pocket towards the intersection of the 50m arc and boundary..

You will find this in about 90% of cases.. which means that WITHOUT LOOKING the pies mids know at least 3 'out' kicks if they are under pressure that will see the ball go to at least a contest. Of course if they do have time and space they can still hit other targets etc etc.. but they know roughly where 3 forwards will be at all times.

We should review this next year.

 

[Old Campaigner]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-08-06/dons-forwards-going-backwards

It's pretty much spot on. Too many injuries to guys like Crameri and Hurley has prevented them from settling, but ironically the relatively benign nature of those injures has allowed them to come back in before our depth has had a chance to settle.

TBell has shown he can be dangerous up forward so it's pretty easy to make the case for him being there full time except when Ryder needs a rest from rucking.

I think the biggest problem with our forward line regardless of who is playing is the lack of defensive efforts from our big men. It means the smaller players have their work cut out trying to keep the ball inside our 50 and more often than not they fail so there is a lack of scoring opportunities for the big men. Crameri, as a strong, fast player really needs to step up in this area over the preseason because I don't think we can be a top side unless he is laying 4-5 tackles a game to help out Davy/Kommer/Licha etc.

 

[yaco55]

What is the benefit of having Gumby instead of TBC? Gumby seems to be good when he goes roaming, but i would rather Crameri and Licka take that role. Would have thought TBC is ahead of Gumby close to goal... + he is a far better ruck of course

T-Bell is not a forward - And if Ryder does most of the rucking, we are in effect playing T-bell as a nearly permanent forward. I no big wrap for Gumby, but he is a better forward than T-Bell.

 

[Zach Package]

I still don't understand how people can justify Gumby over Belch as the 2nd ruck.

Comparable output, one is a legit ruck, one isn't. I'd play them both fwiw, with Crameri.

Don't agree with Carlisle forward at all, doesn't mean he's not good at it, but he's an established defender

 

[Old Campaigner]

T-Bell is not a forward - And if Ryder does most of the rucking, we are in effect playing T-bell as a nearly permanent forward. I no big wrap for Gumby, but he is a better forward than T-Bell.

Except TBell is our second highest goal kicker from just a few games where he has played forward a lot.

 

[vantheman32]

could have something to do with our forward coach (egan) who never played forward. Get lloydy out of the media and teaching these boys

 

[yaco55]

I still don't understand how people can justify Gumby over Belch as the 2nd ruck.

Comparable output, one is a legit ruck, one isn't. I'd play them both fwiw, with Crameri.

Don't agree with Carlisle forward at all, doesn't mean he's not good at it, but he's an established defender

Because T-Bell is doing little rucking !

Carlisle because Hurley is a better defender - Anyway can't do anything till Hurley returns from injury.

 

[hurlygurdy]

T-Bell is not a forward - And if Ryder does most of the rucking, we are in effect playing T-bell as a nearly permanent forward. I no big wrap for Gumby, but he is a better forward than T-Bell.

T-Bell is as you say, playing 70 percent of the game as a forward. From what i have seen he is playing that role with great success. Add to that, when he goes into the ruck we are not just hoping he will hold his own, he is likely to dominate. His return as a forward from the reduced time he spends in there (maybe 70 percent?) has been awesome in my book (25 goals from 17 games). Gumby would have to average 3 goals a game to be considered equal.

 

[Despair]

I still dont understand the persistance with Hurley forward, Carlisle back by Hirdy. I can see the merit in playing Carlisle back given that he has been very good besides a couple beatings.

But when he takes those big grabs in defence I can't help but think how much impetus a solid pair of dukes like Carlisle's would give us in our forward line. Watching Hurley try to take it overhead is like watching a silverback trying to catch water-balloons.

 

[yaco55]

T-Bell is as you say, playing 70 percent of the game as a forward. From what i have seen he is playing that role with great success. Add to that, when he goes into the ruck we are not just hoping he will hold his own, he is likely to dominate. His return as a forward from the reduced time he spends in there (maybe 70 percent?) has been awesome in my book (25 goals from 17 games). Gumby would have to average 3 goals a game to be considered equal.

I guess that Gumby would kick more than 25 goals in 17 games - We will never succeed if we play a ruck as a nearly permanent key forward.

 

[hurlygurdy]

I guess that Gumby would kick more than 25 goals in 17 games - We will never succeed if we play a ruck as a nearly permanent key forward.

He might. But he will do it by spending more time in the forward line, putting greater pressure on Ryder and doing a worse job when relieving Ryder. Then if Ryder is injured and we have not managed to hang onto TBC because he doesn't get game time, we are stuffed and without a proper ruck.
And who says TBC cannot become a good forward anyway? He is doing a pretty fair job of learning the craft at the moment...

 

[Oh Tayteridge]

I just wish we'd stop playing defenders as forwards and we'd play our natural forwards, being Gumbleton and Daniher, in our forward line. TRB have to work out a way to fit Hooker, Hurley, Carlisle and Pears into our defence, which ostensibly will mean we get rid of at least one, as well as Fletcher retiring.

Just has to be done, regardless.

 

[Vander18]

I just wish we'd stop playing defenders as forwards and we'd play our natural forwards, being Gumbleton and Daniher, in our forward line. TRB have to work out a way to fit Hooker, Hurley, Carlisle and Pears into our defence, which ostensibly will mean we get rid of at least one, as well as Fletcher retiring.

Just has to be done, regardless.

Agree with sending Hurley back but think Carlisle has to play forward.

Playing Gumby and JD together leaves us too immobile, lacking physical presence and neither of them look like catching it 1 on 1 right now. Carlisle is the only player on our list who looks like the sort of agile, pack-marking goal kicker we need.

 

[Despair]

Joe Daniher better spend the majority of the off-season shifting steel and eating whole animals. If he can get to 105kg without losing mobility he will be an absolute hand-full for any defender.

In derp we trust.

 

[dodgey]

Sick of Hurley leading to the boundary line...

In fact I have been critical of our forward line set-up for a while now.... Not sure Egan is totally to blame as I reckon he's trying to implement the Hird/Thompson structure THEY want

 

[Vander18]

Joe Daniher better spend the majority of the off-season shifting steel and eating whole animals. If he can get to 105kg without losing mobility he will be an absolute hand-full for any defender.

In derp we trust.

It might take time but he'll get there...has a big frame that will fill out nicely. Problem is it might take 3-4 years and we need him ready to go now!

 

[eth-dog]

I see this as our best forward line:

Winderlich - Gumbleton - resting mid (Zaharakis/Stanton/Melksham/Colyer)
resting mid (Goddard/Watson/Crameri/Myers) - Daniher - Bellchambers

I think Collingwood showed us what a good forward line is on Sunday. Big marking key forward (Cloke), smart lead-up tall (Reid) and resting ruckman (Lynch/Grundy). Then they had Elliott, who I see Winderlich playing a similar role to, a resting midfielder who takes a good mark and a smart mid with legspeed is what could put our forward line in the top echelon. Hopefully Daniher comes on to be similar to Cloke, Gumbleton could be used as trade bait to nab a quick-ish lead up forward. An Aaron Black would be very handy in this years draft (@ant555?)

 

[yaco55]

You don't want your forward line being too big - Three talls is enough - People say that the Hawks play 4, forgetting that Franklin plays as a medium forward, and Roughhead has stints in the middle.

And you struggle to kick goals when you have two lumberers together in Bellchambers and Gumbleton.

 

[lemon chicken]

So, the chances of Gus kicking 7 goals in our fwd line would of been???

Some might be lucky there is an investigation into other matters to take the heat away from this subject.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Noticed watching that game yesterday that when Geelong move forward there's still generally only 2-3 Geelong players inside 50, the rest stay outside to give the big blokes room to lead into, and then once the ball's in the air go in to be ready to crumb and apply pressure. Will watch our structure today to see how we compare. I'm guessing it won't be as good...

 

[Mercurial89]

I think if you watch how monfries is going in another team you could make the arguement it's not our players but our structure. Our gameplan is all about quick movement up field which lets the forwards have space.

The issue is what happens when we are slowed down. It seems that the coaches just think, well we just have to move the ball better up the field and then the forward line will open up. By that I mean they seem to think if up the field improves the forwardline will follow. I don't think they do Enough work on forward structure because they know when up the field works the forwardline is very very capable.

 

[Zach Package]

Righto...

Whatever you have to say about Cram dog and Hurley, we're undeniably better with them in the side, and we're even better with Hurley in defence.

I think Carlisle has an undeniable presence as a forward. He commands the ball and just doesn't get outmarked, he's just too good in the air to lose, at worst you get a contest on the deck.

With that in mind, I think Carlisle as a CHF needs to happen for the next 3 weeks, presumably Hurley will be back next week, so he can play fullback. Hopefully we get crameri back next week as well.

Biggest problem is still delivery, tall timber is useless if you can't get it to them

 

[eth-dog]

Or we could use the futre AA FB and CHB in those positions