Patrick Dangerfield - potential GOAT?

[Mr Meow]

This is a great effort.

I wonder if either of them managed that in finals against the best opposition. I wonder if anyone else has managed that?

Martin's last decent final was as a 29 year old.

Dangerfield has dominated 6 finals since turning 29 (2019 QF, 2020 SF, 2022 PF + GF, 2024 QF, 2025 PF), with a bunch of other very good ones on top of that. His career has maintained relevance and impact for another 6 seasons, whereas Martin retiring after the 2020 GF would make no difference to his legacy. 2021-2024 produced little to remember and he fizzled out badly before hitting game 300.

 

[PhatBoy]

Dangerfield played a great game. Nice to see him finally produce something of that magnitude after about 30 finals.

Aside from numerous other ones.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Aside from numerous other ones.

Which other final has he played where he has produced something anywhere near that level?

 

[Fadge]

Going back a long way there Fadge.

Of course I'm going back a long way.

It was a long period of oblivion!

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Of course I'm going back a long way.

It was a long period of oblivion!

It ended well over a decade ago.

 

[Mr Meow]

Which other final has he played where he has produced something anywhere near that level?

The 2022 grand final with 27 disposals, 19 contested possessions, 9 clearances and 6 goal assists.

The 2022 PF with 28 disposals, 16 contested possessions, 8 clearances, 2 goals and a goal assist.

The 2020 SF shortened game with 19 disposals, 4 goals and a goal assist.

The 2019 QF with 32 disposals, 17 contested possessions, 7 clearances, a goal and a goal assist.

 

[PhatBoy]

Which other final has he played where he has produced something anywhere near that level?

27 touches, 19 contested and 6 goal assists in a grand final was pretty good for a start.

19 touches, 9 contested, 4 goals and a goal assist in a semi final, with 16 minute quarters. That was good for a laugh wasn’t it. Good for a bit of a giggle anyway.

26 touches, 4 tackles, 4 goals, 4 contested marks, 15 contested possessions in a semi-final. They’re just the ones based on scoreboard impact.

 

[Seeds]

Dangerfield played a great game. Nice to see him finally produce something of that magnitude after about 30 finals.

If you want to ignore the 12 other finals he dominated then sure. I wouldnt rank dangers game in the prelim to be in his top 3 finals to be honest.

 

[Seeds]

The 2022 grand final with 27 disposals, 19 contested possessions, 9 clearances and 6 goal assists.

The 2022 PF with 28 disposals, 16 contested possessions, 8 clearances, 2 goals and a goal assist.

The 2020 SF shortened game with 19 disposals, 4 goals and a goal assist.

The 2019 QF with 32 disposals, 17 contested possessions, 7 clearances, a goal and a goal assist.

Your missing the swans knockout semi where he started at full foward and kicked 4 goals and had nearly 30 touches.

I also think his 2016 finals series is underrated. In part cos we got thumped in the prelim and he dominated all year so it became expected. Averaged 37 disposals a game that finals series as a lone hand.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Fortunately we have player ratings to refer to for an unbiased source of rating players performances.

For Patrick his best finals rated:

1. 2025 PF 29.4
2. 2020 SF 27.2
3. 2019 QF 27.2
4. 2016 PF 24.0
5. 2022 GF 22.0
6. 2015 EF 20.5

Those are his very strong rating games from 30 finals. They are also coincidentally his only 6 finals performances above Dustin Martin's career AVERAGE finals rating of 19+. So 20% of Danger's finals were above Dusty's average. 20% of Dusty's finals were above Patrick's BEST final rating.

Dangerfield has definitely performed at a very high level in 20% of his finals. He has probably performed at a decent level in most of the rest. He also has 6 finals ratings under 10, which is poor for a midfielder. Interesting in his 3 finals v Richmond he rated 9.4, 13.2 and 13.4, so they certainly had the Indian sign over him. Dusty in those games rated 32.1, 11.4, and 26.3, so Dusty's best 2 finals out of 3 just against Geelong combined he rated higher than Dangerfield's best two finals combined v all comers out of 30 finals.

Dangerfield has been really good finals performer over his career and franked that with a genuinely great performance last week. But when you compare him with the best ever finals player it is a bit sobering.

 

[Forward Press]

Oh great, Meteoric Rise is here again to tell us why Patrick Dangerfield isn't that good.

 

[My Tilly]

Fortunately we have player ratings to refer to for an unbiased source of rating players performances.

For Patrick his best finals rated:

1. 2025 PF 29.4
2. 2020 SF 27.2
3. 2019 QF 27.2
4. 2016 PF 24.0
5. 2022 GF 22.0
6. 2015 EF 20.5

Those are his very strong rating games from 30 finals. They are also coincidentally his only 6 finals performances above Dustin Martin's career AVERAGE finals rating of 19+. So 20% of Danger's finals were above Dusty's average. 20% of Dusty's finals were above Patrick's BEST final rating.

Dangerfield has definitely performed at a very high level in 20% of his finals. He has probably performed at a decent level in most of the rest. He also has 6 finals ratings under 10, which is poor for a midfielder. Interesting in his 3 finals v Richmond he rated 9.4, 13.2 and 13.4, so they certainly had the Indian sign over him. Dusty in those games rated 32.1, 11.4, and 26.3, so Dusty's best 2 finals out of 3 just against Geelong combined he rated higher than Dangerfield's best two finals combined v all comers out of 30 finals.

So Dangerfield has been really good finals performer over his career and franked that with a genuinely great performance last week. But when you compare him with the best ever finals player it is a bit sobering.

Jesus!

You're no different to that Hodgepodge character who creamed his pants anytime something about Matthews was brought up in the media.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Oh great, Meteoric Rise is here again to tell us why Patrick Dangerfield isn't that good.

I must apologise for introducing facts and perspective to the thread.

Carry on.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Jesus!

You're no different to that Hodgepodge character who creamed his pants anytime something about Matthews was brought up in the media.

I know. It is like I am cancelling Christmas for you.

I am so bad.

 

[Fadge]

It ended well over a decade ago.

'Well over a decade ago'?

Does 'oblivion' when you qualify for finals a couple of times without ever looking like winning one, including being the only club in the history of the competition to lose a final to a 9th placed team?

Seems as though we have higher standards at Collingwood...

 

[Meteoric Rise]

'Well over a decade ago'?

Does 'oblivion' when you qualify for finals a couple of times without ever looking like winning one, including being the only club in the history of the competition to lose a final to a 9th placed team?

Seems as though we have higher standards at Collingwood...

This is new. Fadge thinks finishing 5th with a 15 win season is oblivion.

You really are going to be experiencing oblivion in that case. And your 2014-17 period out of finals is confirmed by Fadge to be oblivion in his eyes.

Thanks Fadge, and again, welcome to oblivion.

 

[Forward Press]

I must apologise for introducing facts and perspective to the thread.

Carry on.

Fact and perspective:

At the age when Dustin Martin played his last final (at 31 yrs 67 days old), Patrick Dangerfield still had yet to play the 2021 finals (3 games), 2022 finals (3 games), 2024 finals (2 games) and 2025 finals (3 games).

If Geelong win this Saturday, Dangerfield's finals record at 31 and beyond will be 8 finals wins from 11 games. Dusty's is 0 wins. Two of those games in your top 5 Dangerfield finals were when Dusty had already played his last final.

 

[Fadge]

This is new. Fadge thinks finishing 5th with a 15 win season is oblivion.

You really are going to be experiencing oblivion in that case. And your 2014-17 period out of finals is confirmed by Fadge to be oblivion in his eyes.

Thanks Fadge, and again, welcome to oblivion.

34 year period with a total of 2 x finals win = Oblivion.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

34 year period with a total of 2 x finals win = Oblivion.

It does.

Judging by the current state of your list, you might be rivalling that. Hopefully only 15 years or so, the world would miss Collingwood losing finals if it went on too long.

 

[Handsuper47]

Fortunately we have player ratings to refer to for an unbiased source of rating players performances.

For Patrick his best finals rated:

1. 2025 PF 29.4
2. 2020 SF 27.2
3. 2019 QF 27.2
4. 2016 PF 24.0
5. 2022 GF 22.0
6. 2015 EF 20.5

Those are his very strong rating games from 30 finals. They are also coincidentally his only 6 finals performances above Dustin Martin's career AVERAGE finals rating of 19+. So 20% of Danger's finals were above Dusty's average. 20% of Dusty's finals were above Patrick's BEST final rating.

Dangerfield has definitely performed at a very high level in 20% of his finals. He has probably performed at a decent level in most of the rest. He also has 6 finals ratings under 10, which is poor for a midfielder. Interesting in his 3 finals v Richmond he rated 9.4, 13.2 and 13.4, so they certainly had the Indian sign over him. Dusty in those games rated 32.1, 11.4, and 26.3, so Dusty's best 2 finals out of 3 just against Geelong combined he rated higher than Dangerfield's best two finals combined v all comers out of 30 finals.

Dangerfield has been really good finals performer over his career and franked that with a genuinely great performance last week. But when you compare him with the best ever finals player it is a bit sobering.

Look, I'm a massive fan of Dusty as much as anyone.. but calling him the best finals player ever isn't correct. That title goes to Kevin Bartlett! If the Norm Smith medal was around much earlier he'd have 4 of them!

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Look, I'm a massive fan of Dusty as much as anyone.. but calling him the best finals player ever isn't correct. That title goes to Kevin Bartlett! If the Norm Smith medal was around much earlier he'd have 4 of them!

I witnessed most of KB's career. Dusty was a better player full stop imo, but definitely a better finals player. KB was brilliant in finals though.

 

[Fadge]

It does.

Judging by the current state of your list, you might be rivalling that. Hopefully only 15 years or so, the world would miss Collingwood losing finals if it went on too long.

See, I can reference reality, whereas you can only reference what you hope will happen...

 

[Fadge]

I suspect in 5 years, once the gloss continues to wear off Martin's brief period of finals excellence, people will start to realise that Dangerfield's finals CV overtook Martin's in 2025.

 

[dinnaz]

Dustin Martin won 48.5% of his offensive 1 v 1 contests, easily the most of any player since the stat was recorded from 2012 onwards.

Patrick Dangerfield has won 42.9% of his offensive 1 v 1 contests.

Dangerfield's record in this stat would be more or less the second most since the stat was recorded. It shows it is a great strength of his. Martin won 13% more of these contests than Dangerfield. That is, as they say, off the charts.

The difference being that Dangerfield actually plays forward. Martin (and then Bolton) cheated out the front of stoppages as a midfielder who pushed forward and got the mismatch. A good trick when it comes off, but left the entire Richmond midfield as an otherwise defensive unit playing 1x short to cover it. Not to mention a spare in defence at all times.

For the record, winning Norm Smiths in a landslide victory is a bit of a non-event. Houli in 2019 was absolutely robbed. Martin had a good few years which included playing well in finals, but the fact that Dangerfield has been better for way longer can't be looked over.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

The difference being that Dangerfield actually plays forward. Martin (and then Bolton) cheated out the front of stoppages as a midfielder who pushed forward and got the mismatch. A good trick when it comes off, but left the entire Richmond midfield as an otherwise defensive unit playing 1x short to cover it. Not to mention a spare in defence at all times.

For the record, winning Norm Smiths in a landslide victory is a bit of a non-event. Houli in 2019 was absolutely robbed. Martin had a good few years which included playing well in finals, but the fact that Dangerfield has been better for way longer can't be looked over.

You sound pretty well informed, lol.