Phil Davis To GWS?

[ftmch]

If he is gone, I look forward to hearing his justification. He's not repaid any of the faith shown in him by the club, which picked him up after he injured his shoulder part way through the National Champs.

He was guaranteed Bock's position this year prior to injuring his shoulder, so if he did sign at the end of last season it was with the knowledge he would be getting opportunities this year to replace a KPP and in doing so, put himself and his own development ahead of others at a time when the he knew the club would be grooming a replacement for Bocky.

Davis was one of those players picked up in part on the basis of his leadership potential. If he has signed on with GWS it will sting on that front too.

The only reason i can see Davis leaving is for money reasons. For a guy who is in his 3rd year, i'm bothered by that.

I hear you mate - this one (if true) grates me enoromously.

The Bock move I could stomach, as we at least reaped some benefit out of our investment in him (though not as much as we would have liked).

Phil has not given us much yet at all - we all know he will be a champion player, but it shits me to tears to think that he will just up and leave after the development we've put into him before we've had some form of return on investment.

For a player so young and so early in their development, Im not sure there's any good reason he can give to justify his decision to move.

Again, all this is predicated on the fact that he is actually moving, but assuming it's true, then f**k him - I hope he does his good shoulder in his first couple of games, and is forced to see out his days mowing lawns for a living in sunny down town Cabramatta.

 

[Paladin]

Just cant imagine Phil leaving. I will be shocked.

 

[ManInTheArena]

When Cam Wood moved from Brisbane to Collingwood I worked with a family member of his.

They told me how up at Brisbane he had to pay for his own accomodation and basically all living expenses. The family also had to pay for their own flights and accomodation when going up to see him.

When he moved down to Collingwood things changed. Eddie rang one of the family members and welcomed the family to the club. Then said for them to all come over for his jumper presentation staying at the Crown Casino for free. Same deal for when he plays his first game. They also get a subsidised rate for any other game they come over.

Also Cam now drives a Lexus, which is leased by the club. Has a nice apartment which is paid for and most living expenses are covered as well.


That is the difference.

Surely fringe benefits like leased cars and apartments are counted in the cap.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Surely fringe benefits like leased cars and apartments are counted in the cap.

Not if the lease for the apartment or car is not in their name. They are just borrowing it. I’m sure you can lend them something and it’s not counted in the salary cap.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Cold. These are people not pieces of meat. This sort of "disposable" attitude is a major factor influencing a lot of society's issues today. I get that this is a business but you have to draw the line somewhere.

Do you?

Our attitude would be fine if it was one shared by the competition leaders.

 

[hugecannon]

Cold. These are people not pieces of meat. This sort of "disposable" attitude is a major factor influencing a lot of society's issues today. I get that this is a business but you have to draw the line somewhere.

If their performances week in week out dictated that sort of money then great pay them what they're worth but I believe that we are paying them well and truly over the odds for what they give to the club on field.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

If he is gone, I look forward to hearing his justification. He's not repaid any of the faith shown in him by the club, which picked him up after he injured his shoulder part way through the National Champs.

He was guaranteed Bock's position this year prior to injuring his shoulder, so if he did sign at the end of last season it was with the knowledge he would be getting opportunities this year to replace a KPP and in doing so, put himself and his own development ahead of others at a time when the he knew the club would be grooming a replacement for Bocky.

Davis was one of those players picked up in part on the basis of his leadership potential. If he has signed on with GWS it will sting on that front too.

The only reason i can see Davis leaving is for money reasons. For a guy who is in his 3rd year, i'm bothered by that.

Someone else posted that his season on the sidelines injured would have given him a different perspective.

If he gets another major injury his career could be in doubt. His chance at making a living out of football gone. His loyalty needs to be to himself and his (future) family.

The other thing about him is that he is intelligent. He understands all the loyalty and culture stuff are just meaningless words designed to embarrass players into signing up for less money.

Will the AFC provide future success? Highly doubtful, especially short term.
Are we among the competition leaders in our off-field support staff? No.
Can we match the dollars? No.

 

[PyroCrow]

Do you?

Our attitude would be fine if it was one shared by the competition leaders.

We can win without having to do that. Good traits such as loyalty should be rewarded if players play an important role at the club. I'm not saying that a spud like Cook should get a bonus for wanting to stay at the club for the long term (he knows he couldn't get a gig elsewhere). However, if players like Dangerfield, Davis etc. make long term commitments to the club they should be fairly compensated financially. Good players showing good traits should be rewarded even if it costs us a bit more than their market value. This doesn't always need to be financial, for an older player maybe a mentoring or coaching role after retirement would be a nice incentive (e.g. Hart).

 

[hugecannon]

We can win without having to do that. Good traits such as loyalty should be rewarded if players play an important role at the club. I'm not saying that a spud like Cook should get a bonus for wanting to stay at the club for the long term (he knows he couldn't get a gig elsewhere). However, if players like Dangerfield, Davis etc. make long term commitments to the club they should be fairly compensated financially. Good players showing good traits should be rewarded even if it costs us a bit more than their market value. This doesn't always need to be financial, for an older player maybe a mentoring or coaching role after retirement would be a nice incentive (e.g. Hart).

I don't think anyone is saying that those players shouldn't be well paid they would be in or close to our top 8 players, it's the replaceable lesser players eg Symes, Reilly, Doughty etc that should be on less than they are, if they get a better offer good luck to them.

 

[JP Sauce]

^^^ Exactly. The 3 players you mentioned wouldn't make any other squad in the league (maaaaybe Reilly), so there's no reason for us to be paying them a cent more than they're worth.

 

[PyroCrow]

I don't think anyone is saying that those players shouldn't be well paid they would be in or close to our top 8 players, it's the replaceable lesser players eg Symes, Reilly, Doughty etc that should be on less than they are, if they get a better offer good luck to them.

Out of the three you mentioned I agree with all but Doughty. I rip on the guy a lot but he is important to the club in more ways than one. He is a veteran and a leader, not vocally (as far as I know) but through leading by example. Despite being a fringe-player most of his career he has preserved and worked to get into the team showing loyalty in the process. While I'm not saying that AFC must pay massively above his value (especially considering he may not be around for many more years) he should be compensated in some way for his service to the club. I think that this sends a positive message to the playing group (we look after our veterans) as well as rewarding someone who has provided solid service to the club for several years.

 

[ManInTheArena]

Not if the lease for the apartment or car is not in their name. They are just borrowing it. I’m sure you can lend them something and it’s not counted in the salary cap.

Not as strict than the ATO then. It would be a fringe benefit under taxation laws.

 

[cmndstab]

There seems to be more ackowledgement of Davis going then Tex, and its been suggested by more reputable people. The fact the Davis has been silent suggests to me that he i as good as gone and in hindsight he' done a very good job of keeping it secret till now.

Well played Philthy.

Honestly, I just don't understand this logic. He's been silent, so therefore he's going? Let's look at it from the opposite direction - what if he's not going, why would he need to come out and squash every ridiculous rumour that comes out?

I will be shocked if Davis goes to GWS, absolutely shocked.

 

[Allefgib]

Ill be surprised but not shocked.

What I am shocked by is posters who feel he owes us something more than seeing out his current contract. Farcical.

 

[cmndstab]

Ill be surprised but not shocked.

What I am shocked by is posters who feel he owes us something more than seeing out his current contract. Farcical.

This I agree with.

I don't think he'll stay because he feels he owes us anything. And hell, if he was to look at his options at the end of the season, and decide that perhaps the GWS offer is better than the offer here, I could even understand that (as I would of any player they target). What I don't believe is that he signed off on moving in the sign-up period months ago. It just doesn't add up, to me.

 

[WAG]

Ill be surprised but not shocked.

What I am shocked by is posters who feel he owes us something more than seeing out his current contract. Farcical.

I agree. Look at it this way. I've just graduated from uni and to be honest, I just want to get a job in my chosen field. I get offered a job with a big firm and am told I have to move interstate to work. I cop that and work my butt off for my new employer. I work for them for three years and show real promise. A young company who is looking to grow in a new market notices my performances and offers me a once in a lifetime financial opportunity closer to family. I know I've got dodgy shoulders (couldn't think of an appropriate analogy here) and might have a limited shelf life in the industry.

Do I go?

 

[Crows #1]

Yes, you would go. If I was offered a job at another company and would get paid double, I'd be off. Would really mind that much about moving and the like cause in a few years I'd be settled and financially so much better off. It's a job now and one that can potentially earn them huge money.

 

[Truck Rutten]

I agree. Look at it this way. I've just graduated from uni and to be honest, I just want to get a job in my chosen field. I get offered a job with a big firm and am told I have to move interstate to work. I cop that and work my butt off for my new employer. I work for them for three years and show real promise. A young company who is looking to grow in a new market notices my performances and offers me a once in a lifetime financial opportunity closer to family. I know I've got dodgy shoulders (couldn't think of an appropriate analogy here) and might have a limited shelf life in the industry.

Do I go?

But this doesn't reflect Phil's situation. He's lived in Adelaide since he was what, 13 or 14, and his parents are here. There's absolutely no reason for him to go to GWS other than money.

 

[WAG]

But this doesn't reflect Phil's situation. He's lived in Adelaide since he was what, 13 or 14, and his parents are here. There's absolutely no reason for him to go to GWS other than money.

My bad, got carried away with the narrative.

What I was trying to get at (obviously unsuccessfully) is that at this stage in his career, I don't think there is a case for loyalty to club. If as you say there is no other reason for him to go other than money, then that is fine and still fits in with the spirit of my poor analogy.

 

[Baron Winds]

Incidentaly, can you remember what did the club do when it found out about Bock's compensation? Honestly can't remember if we kicked up a stink or not. Does the club have the right to appeal the compensation?

They did put in an appeal but later withdrew it when they were informed the appeals board consisted of the same people who decided on the compo we received.

 

[cmndstab]

I agree. Look at it this way. I've just graduated from uni and to be honest, I just want to get a job in my chosen field. I get offered a job with a big firm and am told I have to move interstate to work. I cop that and work my butt off for my new employer. I work for them for three years and show real promise. A young company who is looking to grow in a new market notices my performances and offers me a once in a lifetime financial opportunity closer to family. I know I've got dodgy shoulders (couldn't think of an appropriate analogy here) and might have a limited shelf life in the industry.

Do I go?

Davis spent many of his young years in SA... but other than that your analogy is pretty good.

There is more to the story though. To continue your analogy, you graduate right at the top of your class and everyone knows you're going to be a big player in your field. Firms are lining up and you end up interstate. You develop contacts, friendships, and are put on an elite salary.

Then you're offered the opportunity to go to an interstate upstart company, with a significantly higher salary, but still of the same order as your previous salary. However, the potential for personal growth is limited in the new role. Certainly the first several years are likely to be extremely difficult as the firm attempts to become established in a market it may never gain a foothold in during your career. You have to leave behind your friends, family, and colleagues.


Given that you're already on an elite salary, it's entirely possible that you might choose to stay in your current position, A) for the hope of personal success, and B) because you're already on so much money that the extra money is not worth the disruption to the rest of your life. Admittedly A) is no longer a drawcard for the Crows, but then as bad as we have been, Davis would be painfully aware that GC17 has been even worse, and GWS is likely to be worse again.


I look at it from my own situation. If I was offered a $200k/year research job at a Uni, set myself up, built relationships in the area, and had high hopes for the future in my role there - and was then offered $300k/year at a new Uni with next to no established researchers and no real promise of a decent research profile, I'd actually have to think pretty hard about what I would want to do. The extra money would be nice, but I'd already be on "enough" money to live very comfortably. I also care about my legacy in my field, though, and want to be in a situation to establish that. Finally, I place a high value on my life away from my work. Does that counterbalance $100k/year? It very well might.

 

[PyroCrow]

I don't think there is a case for loyalty to club.

When your a young player being fielded with great offers from rival clubs it takes great loyalty to stay put. If anything, staying now would show his devotion towards the club.

 

[WAG]

Long insightful post....

I would hazard a guess however that the rise in salary from one company to another would be more than 100K per year. Plus my current employer has had one of the worst years on record with a cloudy future. Add in that I have dodgy shoulders which could go again at any moment and then the extra $$ would seem more desirable, at least in the short term.



EDIT: You'd also have potentially a longer career in your field of research (30+ years) whereas footballers have 10-15 years. I would also wager that the potential onfield success of both clubs would be similar.

 

[cmndstab]

I would hazard a guess however that the rise in salary from one company to another would be more than 100K per year. Plus my current employer has had one of the worst years on record with a cloudy future. Add in that I have dodgy shoulders which could go again at any moment and then the extra $$ would seem more desirable, at least in the short term.

Certainly, which all paints a negative picture for us - but bears no relevance to the suggestions that Davis signed up in the one-week window before the season even began.


I'm not going to deny we're a much less attractive destination now than we were 8 months ago. We patently are. That said, we're a much more attractive destination now than we were a week ago.

 

[Truck Rutten]

My bad, got carried away with the narrative.

What I was trying to get at (obviously unsuccessfully) is that at this stage in his career, I don't think there is a case for loyalty to club. If as you say there is no other reason for him to go other than money, then that is fine and still fits in with the spirit of my poor analogy.

I couldn't disagree more. He doesn't desperately need the AFC; every club in the league would gladly grab him, but I simply don't believe that he would feel no sense of duty and loyalty to the club and the mates he's made over the last couple of seasons.

He's going to earn a lot of coin over his career if he stays with us. How much is enough?