My step fathers father (94) always raves about him. By all reports he is very much underrated when people talk of great players.
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Players of yesteryear, who would be stars today.
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My step fathers father (94) always raves about him. By all reports he is very much underrated when people talk of great players.
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He kicked 246 goals in 99 matches and played half of his career at centre half back.
Left the AFL in 1937, returned at 35 years of age in 1945 and bagged 19 goals in 3 matches for Victoria. Even though he had bad arthritic knees he still managed 56 goals from 17 matches for South and bowed out in the 1945 "Bloodbath" grand final.
A freak in any era. Nash was 175 cm and 82 kg. That's an inch taller than Brent Harvey. LOL.
I've asked a fair few old fellas in my time who was the greatest footballer they'd seen, and many of them say "Nash" before I can finish the question. Admittedly, I knew little about him at the time, but they all say he could play everywhere and was completely unstoppable.
Supposedly his best football was actually whilst playing for Camberwell in the VFA where he was outrageously dominant.
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Also has the bigger honour of having a rhyming slang term named in his honour:
Laurie Nash = Cash
A few cricketers have it (ie. David Gower = Shower, Rodney Hogg = Bog), but not too many footy players have that claim to fame!
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Chris Mew and Michael Tuck.
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OldBlueFan
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Many, many great? I think you wanna tone down your hyperbole a little. It would more likely be: a few great, several good and many average. It's fairly widely acknowledged that the VFL was THE comp to show off your wares and so the vast majority of GREAT players either wanted to come, or were lured to, the big stage.
And both of your other stats don't counter the argument anyway. By the time Adelaide, West Coast, Fremantle and Port Adelaide joined the comp, the diluting effect is in play, so naturally they were competitive. There was even an embargo on Victorian teams recruiting kids from their states if I remember correctly (don't people regularly accuse West Coast of having a virtual "state" team initially?). And, the fact that there is fully 1/3 more players playing senior footy now means that there are more playing from every state, Victoria included.
Agree on both of these with the current rules. Also, I think you could drop 200 goals from Gazza on the same basis. Plugger and Dunstall were bread and butter lead/marks/goal players. Gazza was a wrestler, and he would not get as much "star" latitude as he did in the latter years (example, the mark over Pert that wasn't).
Congrats
An Essendon supporter giving us the 83 Norm Smith winner despite the Tim Watson connection.
My Essendon supporting mate still refuses to have his name mentioned.
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I reckon almost the most important aspects in today's game, are....
Breaking lines (either by kicking or running).
Winning contests (either marking or on the ground).
Running (both speed and endurance).
Very, very few guys to have ever played can boast all three (and granted due to their position and/or era they may not have needed all 3).
Darren Millane would be a superstar today.
Breaking lines (either by kicking or running).
Winning contests (either marking or on the ground).
Running (both speed and endurance).
Very, very few guys to have ever played can boast all three (and granted due to their position and/or era they may not have needed all 3).
Darren Millane would be a superstar today.
Royce Hart
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I'm sure people from SA/WA would be better qualified to respond to that than me. SANFL supporters especially make the argument that their league was not that far removed from the VFL in terms of standard at different times. The pay was probably pretty similar too and the vast majority of these players would have had jobs in their home state.
What I can tell you is there are currently seventeen players in the AFL hall of fame (including one legend) who never played a game of VFL football. And if you think there will ever be a player from the mid 80s onwards added to this list, you're kidding yourself.
Peter Carey
Jack K Clarke
John Daly
George Doig
Ken Farmer
Bob Hank
Neil Kerley
Tom MacKenzie
Steve Marsh
Merv McIntosh
Stephen Michael
Barrie Robran
Geof Motley
Bob Quinn
Jack Reedman
William Truscott
Bill Walker
Then there are Hall of Famers who played the majority of their careers in the other state leagues, some only playing a handful of games in the VFL. These players include:
Russell Ebert
Jack Sheedy
David Christy
Len Fitzgerald
Denis Marshall
George Moloney
Graham Moss
Darrel Baldock
Polly Farmer
Peter Hudson
Stuart Spencer
Still more Hall of Famers who played at least a couple of seasons in other state leagues include
Stephen Kernahan
Craig Bradley (when he's inducted)
Haydn Bunton
John Platten
Kevin Murray
Add to that the countless players like Graham Cornes and Neil Craig, who would have been walk-up starts in any VFL club they wanted to play for throughout their careers. I only know Cornes and Craig because of their post-playing careers, I'm sure there's dozens more. Chris McDermott, for example (Adelaide's first captain) was 28 in his AFL debut season and was a regular state rep before and after his shift to the AFL.
I'll say it again: Many, many great players either stayed out of Victoria altogether, or played several seasons of footy in their prime in SA/WA/Tas. This simply would not happen today.
Certainly not initially. Besides Glendinning and John Annear, I don't think there were many proven VFL players who left their clubs to go to the Eagles in their first season at all. The 'state team' arguments came when the Eagles started dominating after they'd been in the league for about five years (1991-1994) and these statements have been refuted countless times by WCE supporters who obviously know a lot more about the issue than I do. WA players like Winmar and Bairstow started their careers in the same year as the Eagles and neither of them stayed in the West.
I'll see if I'm following the 'diluted league logic': West Coast diluted the league, because they entered it (along with Brisbane) and won half their games in their debut season? Is that the reasoning?
Check the percentages of total players of Victorian origin in the AFL now, compared to the percentage of Victorian players 25 years ago. My guess is the difference would be about 50-60% these days, compared to 90%+ back then.
I could be wrong, but weren't lists much bigger than 42 players back in those days as well?
you beat me to it joe - an essendon supporter even thinking that name without spitting blood. i was standing on that wing in 83 - and saw it coming, unlike timmy......OUCH.
Reading the Wiki page on Laurie Nash, it amused me to find that he was on a hat-trick in a match for Tasmania, and proceeded to bowl a bouncer at a South African and break the jaw of the batsman. That's almost better than a real hat-trick, the guy was basically out anyway.
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FB: Collins - Langford - Moore
HB: Jencke - Knights - Tuck
Ce: Pritchard - Jarman - Eade
HF: Buckenara - M. Robran - Hall
FF: Loveridge - Salmon - Brereton
Ru: G. Dear
RR: Matthews
Ro: Platten
I/C: Dipper, Greene, Lekkas + J Kennedy Jnr
HB: Jencke - Knights - Tuck
Ce: Pritchard - Jarman - Eade
HF: Buckenara - M. Robran - Hall
FF: Loveridge - Salmon - Brereton
Ru: G. Dear
RR: Matthews
Ro: Platten
I/C: Dipper, Greene, Lekkas + J Kennedy Jnr
come off it C-L-A those guys wouldnt get a game these days........
well ok maybe 3 or 4 would miss, but the rest would not......huh ??
no ayres ?
g dear in the ruck LOL - on the back of one game yeah ?
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I'm sorry dude, but 17 does not equal many, many unless we have different measuring sticks. Please remember that you used the word "great". And I don't see how bringing up players who made the switch helps your argument.
Yes, that's exactly the reasoning, you don't think that players on the lists of any club that managed to win half their games in their debut seasons might have had a chance to have been picked up and playing for other clubs?
Lists might have been bigger, but teams fielded entire reserves teams, the number of regular senior players would have been roughly the same.
When you work on percentages, you'd be right. Now look at it again with raw numbers, which was the point I was making. 12 teams by 19/20 senior players = 240 versus 16 teams by 22 senior players = 352. An increase of about 50% ... that 50% had to come from somewhere.
Anyway, enough offtopic crap, I was just taking exception to the "many many great" comment.
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The OP mentioned average, nondescript players who he thought would be stars in today's game. Over the next 7 pages, people have listed many of the all-time greats. I don't think this was the idea of the thread. I also believe that champion footballers, past or present, would adapt and be stars in any era.
In the spirit of the original post, I would name any of the exquisitely-talented Aboriginal footballers of yesteryear, who were bashed from pillar to post, racially abused from go to woah and who were given no support from their clubs, homesick, misunderstood and were basically left to sink or swim. The guys who did make it like Maurice Rioli and Jimmy Krakouer must've been really tough sonsabitches.
A player like Michael Mitchell would be a sensation in today's sanitised game. Actually, he was sensational in his brief stint at Richmond, played 80 games, but was knocked out of the game. He retired after getting concussed all the time. Different rules back them. If you were good, you got targeted. Mitchell was one of the fastest footballers I have ever seen. Amazing the way he could run down opponents. He also kicked goals and took massive hangers. When he got the ball, he loved to run and take a few bounces. Nobody could catch him. So they belted him instead.
In 1990, he took the Mark of the Year (an incredible, high-leaping one-hander) and kicked the Goal of the Year (ran the length of the SCG)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Tm5XknOag
In the spirit of the original post, I would name any of the exquisitely-talented Aboriginal footballers of yesteryear, who were bashed from pillar to post, racially abused from go to woah and who were given no support from their clubs, homesick, misunderstood and were basically left to sink or swim. The guys who did make it like Maurice Rioli and Jimmy Krakouer must've been really tough sonsabitches.
A player like Michael Mitchell would be a sensation in today's sanitised game. Actually, he was sensational in his brief stint at Richmond, played 80 games, but was knocked out of the game. He retired after getting concussed all the time. Different rules back them. If you were good, you got targeted. Mitchell was one of the fastest footballers I have ever seen. Amazing the way he could run down opponents. He also kicked goals and took massive hangers. When he got the ball, he loved to run and take a few bounces. Nobody could catch him. So they belted him instead.
In 1990, he took the Mark of the Year (an incredible, high-leaping one-hander) and kicked the Goal of the Year (ran the length of the SCG)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Tm5XknOag
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David Hynes.
Dunstall kicked 500 goals after pushing his opponent in the back.
Would still be a champion today though.You seem to be forgetting that 30 years ago the population was 12 million and now it's 22 million. The talent pool has doubled but the number of teams hasn't, so all things being equal 22 teams worth of talent are playing for 16 sides, i.e. it's actually about 7-8 players in each team (of 20) back then who wouldn't get a game now.
As for who would, aside from those mentioned I'll nominate Gerard Healy, who was made for the running game, as was Graeme Wright. In terms of lesser lights, Ray Jencke would be a gun off half-back. It's hard to remember the real battlers though, for obvious reasons.
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It helps my argument because it shows that several Australian football hall of famers played all/the majority of their careers in the WAFL/SANFL/TFL. Nearly 15%, in fact. And then there's players like Kernahan, Platten, Bradley, Rioli, Jarman etc...who came to the VFL/AFL in their early-mid 20s, ergo, they played some of their prime in their own state leagues. And, as I mentioned, there are probably countless Neil Craigs who could have come to the VFL whenever they wanted to and chose not to. I'm not a historian of these leagues, so I don't know their names. Guys like Craig, Cornes and Rioli are not in the Hall of Fame. So they're not greats of the game?
Now, if these guys were not playing in the VFL during some/all of their prime, lesser players would have been taking their positions in senior VFL teams, right? That's dilution, which would not occur in the modern era. To further illustrate my point, have a look at how many players from SANFL and WAFL teams used to make the All-Australian team before the late 80s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Australian_team#Australian_Football_Carnival_era:_1953.E2.80.931988).
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Ayresy and Mew no because they lack a bit of pace. The rest would walk into most teams.
Ayres would get a game for anyone, anytime.
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