Preview Practice Match v Collingwood Friday 24th Feb 11.00am @ Princes Park

[Coona Blues]

This is my dream. Lemmey and TDK rotating between ruck and forward. Don't see why it can't happen this year if Lem keeps banging the goals in.

Lemmey has to learn ruck craft (as well as advanced forward craft) With Mirkov and O’Keeffe developing, I can’t see many ruck minutes on offer in the short term. Sounds great in theory, but thinking a couple of years, minimum, away. Big guys almost never develop overnight. Remember how long Harry Mac took to tie down a spot.

 

[BlueGum]

Lemmey has to learn ruck craft (as well as advanced forward craft) With Mirkov and O’Keeffe developing, I can’t see many ruck minutes on offer in the short term. Sounds great in theory, but thinking a couple of years, minimum, away. Big guys almost never develop overnight. Remember how long Harry Mac took to tie down a spot.

Time and hard work

 

[gbatman]

Just some thoughts on us playing Mirkov and leaving Pittonet out. Might not be just about getting a look at him at AFL level to see how he goes. I reckon we are seriously thinking about playing him during the season.

1. Pittonet has struggled to get through a season, he's usually had an injury pop up here and there. Even if he remains fit we shouldn't be asking him to play every game anyway.

2. I think we will be very keen to keep our structure of DeKoning ruck forward. I have a feeling we wont want to be pushed into playing him as 1st ruck and Silvagni second ruck again. It just creates a hole and weakens us.

3. There was a trend in the AFL at one stage where clubs picked athletes over footballers for the ruck. Big giants who won taps but couldn't really play and it worked for some teams. It has since gone out of fashion, the good sides have ruckmen who can take marks, get involved in the play etc. Perhaps we are considering at times going back to the past when we play teams who have dominant rucks. Playing Collingwood, they have Cox who seems to play well and get off the chain against us, being too tall and taking marks etc. I think we really wanted to see how Mirkov went at negating him.

4. We have a strong midfield so winning the tap is probably an advantage to us where as a ruck who gets involved in the play is a little more unnecessary for us.

5. We play Mirkov against sides who have dominant ruck/s. I think that's our thought. Melbourne for example. Pitto/TDK v Melbourne, we lose the ruck, Pittonet does his usual thing where he still goes well against them, wins a good amount of the tap and does a bit around the field or Mirkov/TDK v Gawn/Grundy. He jumps all over them, we win the ruck, Mirkov tags the opposition ruckman, we win the midfield battle against a team who is used to winning the ruck and doing that unsettles them. Mirkov manages to follow the ruck around all game punching the ball away and playing a tight tag negating their influence as footballers. I just get the feeling that the latter scenario wins us the game.

I know I said he was years away earlier but that is viewing him as a modern ruckman. The modern ruckman being a player who can mark overhead and get involved in play. Perhaps he's a tap dominant ruckman who tags. It's not a bad ploy. It works for a team like us who are strong under the ruckman's feet. If you can take the bullets out of the oppositions gun, take away their strength then you can beat them. It just might be something we are looking to do. That is if Mirkov can dominate the ruck and be an effective tagger.

Then there is the scenario that Pittonet is unjured. I don't think we want to go back to TDK/SOS. I think it will be Mirkov ruck and TDK and SOS stay put in their roles.

 

[CJMB]

Lemmey has to learn ruck craft (as well as advanced forward craft) With Mirkov and O’Keeffe developing, I can’t see many ruck minutes on offer in the short term. Sounds great in theory, but thinking a couple of years, minimum, away. Big guys almost never develop overnight. Remember how long Harry Mac took to tie down a spot.

It did take him a while to build, but he also had a pretty interrupted run at it early days. Charlie had played 47 in his first 3 years while Harry didn't reach that until the end of his 5th season, and for all the footy Charlie missed, he's only played 2 less games than Harry.

If Lemmey can have some good continuity, while also benefiting from playing in a better system than H&C did to start their careers, then I think he could probably have a greater chance of being able to line up alongside H&C as the 3rd target earlier than H was ready to be the big dog ahead of Levi.

 

[gbatman]

Lemmey has to learn ruck craft (as well as advanced forward craft) With Mirkov and O’Keeffe developing, I can’t see many ruck minutes on offer in the short term. Sounds great in theory, but thinking a couple of years, minimum, away. Big guys almost never develop overnight. Remember how long Harry Mac took to tie down a spot.

The other side of this is that McKay was a young raw key forward playing in a weak team playing as a key position player on the best key defenders. If Lemmy comes in he comes into a strong team with a strong midfield and two gun key position forwards who take the best two key defenders. He comes in playing on the third tall defender with all the focus going to Curnow/McKay and perhaps even SOS or TDK.

So he'd be playing on the 3r or 4th best tall/tallish defender with no real attention from lose defenders. May not be that different from playing on the VFL's best tall defender each week and gaining attention from the other defenders down there as he's a clear number 1 target.

I would not be surprised if Lemmy gets a run as forward/ruck in the AFL a lot earlier than we think and could fly under the radar a bit.

We are now a strong enough team where we can accommodate a few raw young players and have them do well. Same goes for Hollands and Cowan. There is no throwing to the wolves anymore in this team, they can come in ad do what a lot of good youngsters do in strong sides, fly under the radar and play with a bit of freedom. Providing they are playing well.

 

[Vo Rogue]

Just some thoughts on us playing Mirkov and leaving Pittonet out. Might not be just about getting a look at him at AFL level to see how he goes. I reckon we are seriously thinking about playing him during the season.

1. Pittonet has struggled to get through a season, he's usually had an injury pop up here and there. Even if he remains fit we shouldn't be asking him to play every game anyway.

2. I think we will be very keen to keep our structure of DeKoning ruck forward. I have a feeling we wont want to be pushed into playing him as 1st ruck and Silvagni second ruck again. It just creates a hole and weakens us.

3. There was a trend in the AFL at one stage where clubs picked athletes over footballers for the ruck. Big giants who won taps but couldn't really play and it worked for some teams. It has since gone out of fashion, the good sides have ruckmen who can take marks, get involved in the play etc. Perhaps we are considering at times going back to the past when we play teams who have dominant rucks. Playing Collingwood, they have Cox who seems to play well and get off the chain against us, being too tall and taking marks etc. I think we really wanted to see how Mirkov went at negating him.

4. We have a strong midfield so winning the tap is probably an advantage to us where as a ruck who gets involved in the play is a little more unnecessary for us.

5. We play Mirkov against sides who have dominant ruck/s. I think that's our thought. Melbourne for example. Pitto/TDK v Melbourne, we lose the ruck, Pittonet does his usual thing where he still goes well against them, wins a good amount of the tap and does a bit around the field or Mirkov/TDK v Gawn/Grundy. He jumps all over them, we win the ruck, Mirkov tags the opposition ruckman, we win the midfield battle against a team who is used to winning the ruck and doing that unsettles them. Mirkov manages to follow the ruck around all game punching the ball away and playing a tight tag negating their influence as footballers. I just get the feeling that the latter scenario wins us the game.

I know I said he was years away earlier but that is viewing him as a modern ruckman. The modern ruckman being a player who can mark overhead and get involved in play. Perhaps he's a tap dominant ruckman who tags. It's not a bad ploy. It works for a team like us who are strong under the ruckman's feet. If you can take the bullets out of the oppositions gun, take away their strength then you can beat them. It just might be something we are looking to do. That is if Mirkov can dominate the ruck and be an effective tagger.

Then there is the scenario that Pittonet is unjured. I don't think we want to go back to TDK/SOS. I think it will be Mirkov ruck and TDK and SOS stay put in their roles.

Mirkov is so far away from being an AFL player it isn't funny. He's coming from so far back I'm not trying to be negative, but if you combine the worst aspects of TDK and Pittonet, you come up with Mirkov's current skill set.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Mirkov is so far away from being an AFL player it isn't funny. He's coming from so far back I'm not trying to be negative, but if you combine the worst aspects of TDK and Pittonet, you come up with Mirkov's current skill set.

Agree…
He’s just not ready yet, besides the tap outs all other parts of his game are below average atm…
He’s coming along but he is a slow burn…

 

[Beyond Blue]

Just some thoughts on us playing Mirkov and leaving Pittonet out. Might not be just about getting a look at him at AFL level to see how he goes. I reckon we are seriously thinking about playing him during the season.

1. Pittonet has struggled to get through a season, he's usually had an injury pop up here and there. Even if he remains fit we shouldn't be asking him to play every game anyway.

2. I think we will be very keen to keep our structure of DeKoning ruck forward. I have a feeling we wont want to be pushed into playing him as 1st ruck and Silvagni second ruck again. It just creates a hole and weakens us.

3. There was a trend in the AFL at one stage where clubs picked athletes over footballers for the ruck. Big giants who won taps but couldn't really play and it worked for some teams. It has since gone out of fashion, the good sides have ruckmen who can take marks, get involved in the play etc. Perhaps we are considering at times going back to the past when we play teams who have dominant rucks. Playing Collingwood, they have Cox who seems to play well and get off the chain against us, being too tall and taking marks etc. I think we really wanted to see how Mirkov went at negating him.

4. We have a strong midfield so winning the tap is probably an advantage to us where as a ruck who gets involved in the play is a little more unnecessary for us.

5. We play Mirkov against sides who have dominant ruck/s. I think that's our thought. Melbourne for example. Pitto/TDK v Melbourne, we lose the ruck, Pittonet does his usual thing where he still goes well against them, wins a good amount of the tap and does a bit around the field or Mirkov/TDK v Gawn/Grundy. He jumps all over them, we win the ruck, Mirkov tags the opposition ruckman, we win the midfield battle against a team who is used to winning the ruck and doing that unsettles them. Mirkov manages to follow the ruck around all game punching the ball away and playing a tight tag negating their influence as footballers. I just get the feeling that the latter scenario wins us the game.

I know I said he was years away earlier but that is viewing him as a modern ruckman. The modern ruckman being a player who can mark overhead and get involved in play. Perhaps he's a tap dominant ruckman who tags. It's not a bad ploy. It works for a team like us who are strong under the ruckman's feet. If you can take the bullets out of the oppositions gun, take away their strength then you can beat them. It just might be something we are looking to do. That is if Mirkov can dominate the ruck and be an effective tagger.

Then there is the scenario that Pittonet is unjured. I don't think we want to go back to TDK/SOS. I think it will be Mirkov ruck and TDK and SOS stay put in their roles.

Whilst I share your concern about Pittonet being injury prone - he has played only 33 games out of 61 over the last 3 years - IMO there is no way Mirkov gets picked ahead of him if they are both available. If Pittonet (or TDK) is unavailable then I’d rather we use Young as the back up ruck and play S Durdin down back.

Against Cameron and Cox who are hardly elite ruckmen, Mirkov struggled to do anything around the grounds outside of taking the ruck taps. I think he had 1 or 2 actual possessions all game and I don’t recall him taking a mark. Against Gawn and Grundy he would get physically and mentally destroyed if we played him.

 

[Aphrodite]

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Nice to see a ruckman kicking multiple goals!

 

[thylacine60]

on seeing the goalkickers, dermot brereton now walking back his suggestion charlie might become the best player in the game........

 

[El Topo]

Have to agree that Newman looked very good. Somewhat perplexing player but overall I think he's better for the backline than I've given him credit for.

A lot of our guys are reflexively negative and quick to go into their shells, while Newman is anything but that. His leadership was sorely missed in last year's late season debacle.

 

[thylacine60]

reckon we might just under-value a strong second tier team............by about 40 Billion undervalue bitcoins.............

 

[Jatz]

reckon we might just under-value a strong second tier team............by about 40 Billion undervalue bitcoins.............

It's not coincidental that premiers often have a very strong second team.

 

[Juddrockz]

Agree…
He’s just not ready yet, besides the tap outs all other parts of his game are below average atm…
He’s coming along but he is a slow burn…

Our new kid Hudson O'keefe could possibly overtake Mirk in my opinion. This kid could be a diamond in the rough, i reckon.

 

[Arr0w]

Our new kid Hudson O'keefe could possibly overtake Mirk in my opinion. This kid is a diamond in the rough, i reckon.

 

[Sector 7G]

A lot of our guys are reflexively negative and quick to go into their shells, while Newman is anything but that. His leadership was sorely missed in last year's late season debacle.

Thought Young had a bad game. Flew 3rd man up was taken to ground and allowed McStay an easy goal, was outmarked a bit and laid a terrible high tackle on McInnes to gift a late goal. Needs to improve if he is to keep his spot.

 

[katmanblue]

Lemmey has to learn ruck craft (as well as advanced forward craft) With Mirkov and O’Keeffe developing, I can’t see many ruck minutes on offer in the short term. Sounds great in theory, but thinking a couple of years, minimum, away. Big guys almost never develop overnight. Remember how long Harry Mac took to tie down a spot.

Harry had back issues for a fair chunk of that.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Harry had back issues for a fair chunk of that.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

And he was held back by Bolts in the VFL for about half a season IIRC.

But I do agree, no expectations on Lemmey at senior level for a while yet.

 

[carlton_99]

Thought Young had a bad game. Flew 3rd man up was taken to ground and allowed McStay an easy goal, was outmarked a bit and laid a terrible high tackle on McInnes to gift a late goal. Needs to improve if he is to keep his spot.

If that was a real game there would be nothing surer than playing Weitering on Mcstay. Much better matchup. Young more suited to the resting ruck and could intercept in that role. Plus I still thought Young had a solid second half.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

If that was a real game there would be nothing surer than playing Weitering on Mcstay. Much better matchup. Young more suited to the resting ruck and could intercept in that role. Plus I still thought Young had a solid second half.

Yes, just watched the game again... Young got better as the game wore on....

#23 was playing a strange role....

 

[carlton_99]

Yes, just watched the game again... Young got better as the game wore on....

#23 was playing a strange role....

Tbh if you told me Weitering wasn't playing I would have believed you. Think he was taking the resting ruck and I didn't really notice Cox or Cameron in their forward line either. Any chance they just went to the cafe?

 

[jooce8891]

VFL practice match highlights

 

[Jimmae]

Kemp hasn't shown the capacity to be able to defend dangerous small forwards like Plow can. Don't think they are fighting for the same role. I would have Kemp more competing with either Weitering/Young as KPDs or the third tall defender (Gov/Marchy).

I wouldn't even be putting them in the same half of the ground.

Lemmey has to learn ruck craft (as well as advanced forward craft) With Mirkov and O’Keeffe developing, I can’t see many ruck minutes on offer in the short term. Sounds great in theory, but thinking a couple of years, minimum, away. Big guys almost never develop overnight. Remember how long Harry Mac took to tie down a spot.

Different circumstances... McKay missed a lot of games through injury, and the toll of having to play key forward fairly early on. Hopefully now he's managed well, and players like Lemmey can come in earlier and have an impact while they build their bodies up.

 

[Kenny Hunter09]

Happy to put it on the line like always

Wasn't at the ground, so didn't see the VFL game

From what I saw of Lemmey (limited to first half only), I'm with you Arrow. Very exciting prospect.