ExpatAussie
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Yes, but instead of Sunderland, let's call it Hobart.
Expansion Proposals for a Truly National AFL
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And how does that work with the draft?
The best kids in the land won't want to be playing in the lower divisions.
megadeth86
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There are Aussie Rules clubs in Glasgow and Edinburgh (Sharks and Bloods respectively) but they are disappointing. They play 9-a-side. Absolutely nobody knows about them and they are never in the mainstream media. Rugby union is the second biggest football code and it seems that people are happy with this situation. Even cricket is not discussed much north of the border and its main supporters are the local Pakistani community.
ExpatAussie
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Draft. hahahahahaha
Nah mate, no draft. Humans have free will, and play for who they want to. As it should be.
For example, imagine a draft in any other workplace. It a pure authoritarian measure which gives no civil rights to the players. Commie policies.
So then if all the best kids want to go to the same team that's how it plays out?
Your idea of a league sounds s**t house.
ExpatAussie
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You should probably check out a little thing called Soccer. Seems to be struggling
You should probably check out a little thing called Soccer. Seems to be struggling
I know plenty about it.
It is struggling big time outside of the top echelon of clubs.
So your idea is to have 4-5 mega clubs and then a crap load of teams who never have a chance to win anything.
Your idea sucks.
ExpatAussie
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Take the OP's scenario, with 2 Divisions of 12 teams each, assuming Hobart, North Tasmania, Darwin, Canberra, Cairns & Perth make up the 24 clubs.
Which of the 24 clubs would be a Mega Clubs and which would struggle to ever be promoted to Div1?
A serious question to you, before you brilliantly say the idea sucks.
All the ones with zero history would never be promoted.
Tiny markets who could never compete financially with the existing clubs.
The only teams who'd get promoted are a few of the already existing AFL clubs who got pushed down into the lower division.
Not that any of those clubs would vote for such a league.
ExpatAussie
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Ok, lets make it simple for you.
Next to the club, please write whether it would be a strong club, or struggling club, to see if your comment of only 4-5 Mega clubs is accurate.
| Richmond Tigers |
| Essendon Bombers |
| Adelaide Crows |
| West Coast Eagles |
| Collingwood Magpies |
| Sydney Swans |
| Carlton Blues |
| Brisbane Lions |
| Melbourne Demons |
| Fremantle Dockers |
| Geelong Cats |
| St Kilda Saints |
| Hobart |
| Western Bulldogs |
| Darwin |
| Canberra |
| GWS Giants |
| North Melbourne |
| North Tasmania |
| Perth |
| Port Adelaide Power |
| Hawthorn Hawks |
| Gold Coast Suns |
| Cairns |
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The mega clubs become a thing because you just s**t on the idea of the draft spreading the talent around evenly.
Salary caps will be worthless because they will all have to be the same and the small market clubs won't have the money to match the money of the biggest clubs.
What % of the cap now do you think Cairns could pay?
So why even bother?
ExpatAussie
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No salary cap. No draft.
Again, which of the following clubs would be successful, and which ones would struggle to be competitive in a 2 div league?
| Richmond Tigers |
| Essendon Bombers |
| Adelaide Crows |
| West Coast Eagles |
| Collingwood Magpies |
| Sydney Swans |
| Carlton Blues |
| Brisbane Lions |
| Melbourne Demons |
| Fremantle Dockers |
| Geelong Cats |
| St Kilda Saints |
Hobart |
| Western Bulldogs |
| Darwin |
| Canberra |
| GWS Giants |
| North Melbourne |
| North Tasmania |
| Perth |
| Port Adelaide Power |
| Hawthorn Hawks |
| Gold Coast Suns |
| Cairns |
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- Feb 13, 2011
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Sydney
West coast
3 top Melbourne sides.
Fremantle, Geelong, Adelaide, 2 more Melbourne sides would make up the bulk of the rest of Div 1
Port Adelaide, Brisbane, 2 more Melbourne sides would yoyo between divisions.
North, saints, giants and Gold Coast and every new club would sit comfortably in div 2.
- Feb 13, 2011
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Without draft or salary caps Essendon aren't facing relegation.
Richmond
West Coast
Collingwood
Carlton
Essendon
There's the winner of every flag if there's no draft or salary cap.
ExpatAussie
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How about the capital city clubs;
Sydney
Brisbane
Adelaide
Melbourne
You dont think they would be financial viable if managed properly?
How about Geelong?
No I don't think those clubs could match the financial clout of the biggest 5 clubs with no salary cap.
Less members, less big money backers, less commercial appeal.
I live in Geelong. Zero big club mentality about that town.
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That’s what happens when someone at the club comes out and says Geelong can’t afford to be down the bottom for years. Same reason why they enjoy failing in finals
ExpatAussie
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I dont think the Costa Group shares your mentality.
And if you look at the MFC back in the 1950's, we were the Mega Club.
And going forward, Sydney and Brisbane will be power clubs.
Sorry Bostonian, I dont share your pessimestic view of our game.
sherb
Hall of Famer
No salary cap and draft will lead to exactly what Bostonian is saying - a handful of clubs dominating because they can buy the best players.
They can then use their resultant success as an additional recruiting tool, while the struggling clubs are faced with the reverse situation.
You put forward soccer as an example to back your argument, you couldn't have picked a worse one. Ask the supporters of any English PL club apart from ManU, ManC, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool what they think of the fairness of the competition. (Apart from winning actual titles, guess which 5 clubs finished in the top 6 in the most recent EPL season?).
And even in the recent history of the VFL, from 67-89 inclusive only 5 sides won the flag - Carlton, Essendon, North, Richmond & Hawthorn - via being able to get the best talent for the reasons I quoted above (plus having talent rich zones).
As a Carlton supporter you think I'd say fine, bring the money back in and let us at it - but no way would I want to see the competition go back to the days of premierships being bought rather than developed.
ExpatAussie
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Exactly, he would probably bankroll the Cairns team himself.Imagine having a Clive Palmer bank rolling an AFL team
Therefore they'd have enough dough for a good stadium and a bloody decent team.
Fantastic!!!
nb. At least they wouldnt be vaxxed. Probably end up being the last team standing.
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ExpatAussie
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Please detail how North Melbourne did so well during this period?
Also, what would happen if say Clive Palmer bankrolled lets say, Cairns, and if Hydro Tasmania bankrolled North Tasmania?
Would that make them powerclubs aswell? Or if Ziggy Forrester bankrolled Darwin etc etc.
Why is the big private money refined to ONLY the clubs you mentioned, and what makes you think the members of those big clubs would allow their clubs to be privatized. You may actually have a situation where Cairns and Darwin have access to more financial resources than Essendon, Carlton, Collingwood combined.
Im trying to understand your logic.
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So he'd over pay for a few mercenaries who don't care if they play at the highest level and challenge for flags.
As if that Muppet would know how to run a football club.
They are.
The only side to average that (33k)was Sunderland (an old EPL, Div1 team)who have just been promoted to the Championship (old div2), Only 3 clubs in League1,(old div 3), average over 20k. But the League average is 10k. Thus many average much less.
I note that the English Championship (Div2) is the most attended 2nd tier of any sport in the world, at around 17500.
English population 57mil (UK 68mil)
Spanish La Liga ave 23k Spanish pop.47mil
Italian Serie A ave 18300 Italian Pop, 59mil
French Ligue 1 ave 20,900 French pop, 65mil
Its clearly TV revenues & sponsorships which keeps most clubs afloat in Europe. The 2nd, 3rd tier soccer in places the game dominates tend to live much more hand to mouth, hoping to fluke a promotion. History is littered with clubs who tried to buy success to get to the top money division, failed & went bust.
Not sure how divisions here would survive the realities we see overseas.
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