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Post-Human
Why do you think Beams was rated higher then Sidebottom?
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- Thread starter Quicky
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Why do you think Beams was rated higher then Sidebottom?
List the players in the order that you rate their potential to be quality players and cross them off as the names get called. Take the next one on the list when it's our turn. Next year I want us to keep our first round pick and if possible upgrade it and/or our second rounder. I still want to draft the best potential player with those picks regardless of positional considerations.
Mark, I get the impression that upgrading a first-round pick in 2012 might involve trading Swan or Pendlebury
After two compromised drafts, every coach and every recruiting manager will be keen to get their hands on a genuine top-notcher.
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Really?
I haven't seen anywhere where Hine has said that pre-draft he rated Beams higher than Sidebottom, or Pendles better than Thomas. Are you sure?
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Quicky
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I don't have a link to any articles so feel free not to believe me.
But i'm pretty sure at the time it was rumoured that we rated Pendlebury higher than Thomas. Hine knew that Hawthorn would have picked Thomas up at pick 3 if we hadn't selected him at 2. Pendlebury was rated outside the top 10 by most people and Hine gambled he would fall to our pick 5.
In regards to Beams and Sidebottom I recall at the time Hine mentioning/ or it being heavily reported that we considered selecting Beams at pick 11. It was never mentioned whether we rated Sidebottom higher or not however. But there was never a chance Sidebottom would have lasted until pick 30 and every chance Beams would.
But the point I was trying to make is that I don't think it is as simple as making a list of 1 through to wherever and neatly selecting the next in line. If we think we can get two players from our wish list by taking a measured risk I believe we would. That was the point I was trying to make.
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Post-Human
I Remember something that was said Pendles was Rated Higher then Thomas but Hawks Wanted Thomas so we Selected Thomas 1st.
I remember Pick 11 on 2008 was Between Steele,Beams and Swift
I thought that Hine went in with 100 players ranked #1-100, and got the highest player available with our picks?
And that they speak to players who they think are going to be available and possibly to other clubs to determine WHO will be available come our picks.
I can't imagine someone who's job it is to pick players would risk a highly rated player in the hope they were there at a later pick.
By talking to other clubs you can assess weather they are likely to be there, but I as I've said I can't imagine Hine playing craps with our list.
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There may have been speculation that we rated Pendles higher than Thomas, but I doubt Hine would have come out anywhere and said this officially. Same with Sidebottom and Beams. It was public knowledge that Hine rated Beams, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that he rated him higher than Sidebottom, whereas there IS evidence that suggests the opposite.
Don't want us to confuse Bigfooty speculation with Collingwood's actual drafting strategies.
To be honest, I expect that Hine's strategy (and I think he has openly said this) is that (as others have said) he makes a ranked list, and crosses off the ones who get picked. When it comes to our turn, he just selects that best one left.
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Quicky, maybe you were thinking of this article.
Beams was so high on the list, Hine almost went with the Queenslander rather than Steele Sidebottom at pick 11.
"There wasn't too much between them, not at all," he said.
http://www.velocitysports.com.au/default.asp?PageID=1480
Beams was so high on the list, Hine almost went with the Queenslander rather than Steele Sidebottom at pick 11.
"There wasn't too much between them, not at all," he said.
http://www.velocitysports.com.au/default.asp?PageID=1480
That would possibly have more to do with the belief Sidebottom would not last to 11.
There is a huge difference in gambling on taking your preferred player when there is a couple picks difference early in the draft than a round or 2 later in the draft. I don't know about the Thomas/Pendlebury story but it is feasable. Take away the priority though and you can be sure the player taken first would have been the player rated highest.
Probably right about clubs wanting quality/early picks. There might also be a couple of clubs with lots of kids wanting to win games and add players who have been developed in a quality system. A late first rounder and a couple of players might get something worthwhile but if not then lets not sell the farm. Pick 1 isn't worth any of our best 10 players. Pick 2 or 3 might be worth our first pick and 15th ranked player and a player just outside the 22 if we have options for that 15th ranked players position.Mark, I get the impression that upgrading a first-round pick in 2012 might involve trading Swan or Pendlebury
After two compromised drafts, every coach and every recruiting manager will be keen to get their hands on a genuine top-notcher.
I'm just making up numbers. The point is we haven't taken anyone likely to be a top 6 player in a premiership side for quite a while now and you don't win flags unless you do that every so often. It would be nice not to end up falling away after the likes of Swan and Shaw are gone. We need a next Thomas and Pendlebury to follow Sidebottom/Beams. Faslo is an outside chance from back in the draft perhaps but it is a numbers game.
O
Old Spice
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When there isn't much between players and Hine thinks another team is hot on a player, like Thomas or Sidebottom, then it's probably wise to take the player you know is highly touted by others and hope the other slides through.
In the case of Sidebottom, his stocks went sky high after his 10 goal haul in the TAC. Beams was probably not on so many radars so Hine hoped he might slip through, which he did.
With Pendles, obviously it wasn't much of a wait and a fair chance for him to still be there. There were a fair few decent talls in that draft so maybe Hine thought Pendles was a good chance to slip through. We were seemingly on the off-beat in 2005 to others - going for mids - while we went for talls in 2006 (Brown, Reid, Dawes) when there was a reasoanble supply.
What are the chances of Tom Curren being around at our first pick?
He's a tall forward who can also play back when needed and is a good reader of the play.
At 195cm and 86kg he's already a fairly good size.(will need to put on a few kgs though)
Hawthorn chose not to elect to take him as a father/sun recruit,probably due to him being injured during the season with a hot spot on his foot.
They say they caught it early enough for it to be only a short term problem.
He's a tall forward who can also play back when needed and is a good reader of the play.
At 195cm and 86kg he's already a fairly good size.(will need to put on a few kgs though)
Hawthorn chose not to elect to take him as a father/sun recruit,probably due to him being injured during the season with a hot spot on his foot.
They say they caught it early enough for it to be only a short term problem.
And also Yarran.
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Post-Human
Well I heard the Player really wanted was Ziebell
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Post-Human
Outside Chance but I would think be taken by Pick 50 but as you said with Injury Concern he could get to us at 50
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Dave I always find you have a pretty good grip on which players will still be around at our first pick
Can you do a list of the best 5 players that in your opinion might be available at pick 50.
Can you include their height, weight and playing position.
Thanks
Knightmare
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My pick from the bigfooty phantom draft for those interested:
#50 Collingwood - Kyal Horsley (Mid/Util)
Profile: Mature age midfielder from WA. Is that class above. Finished second in the Sandover Medal. Really increased his production in 2011. Is the type of player I can see Nathan Buckley wanting because he has a really strong AFL ready body. Wins his own ball. Has pace and has a nice left foot kick on him. The versatility to play forward or back is also there which makes Horsley an ideal option.
Interesting side note: A few have linked Horsley to Collingwood because Scott Watters - ex assistant coach now St Kilda senior coach is a big fan and word was he recommended Horsley to Buckley.
Other considerations: Looking through my list of players left there are a few I still like (Tom Downie and Haiden Schloithe where two of them who stood out) but I just can't see Collingwood picking either since we added Jarrod Witts as a young ruckman, added Ceglar last year and also retained Shae McNamara for another year, then as forwards we added Jamie Elliott this trade period and then Kirk Ugle last year as well as retaining Brent Macaffer for another season.
The only other player I seriously considered for this selection was Jackson Merrett who I took in the trial, would be a really nice fit as an outside midfielder but instead I elected to go for a more immediate fit because with the list we have now it should be about winning a premiership now.
#50 Collingwood - Kyal Horsley (Mid/Util)
Profile: Mature age midfielder from WA. Is that class above. Finished second in the Sandover Medal. Really increased his production in 2011. Is the type of player I can see Nathan Buckley wanting because he has a really strong AFL ready body. Wins his own ball. Has pace and has a nice left foot kick on him. The versatility to play forward or back is also there which makes Horsley an ideal option.
Interesting side note: A few have linked Horsley to Collingwood because Scott Watters - ex assistant coach now St Kilda senior coach is a big fan and word was he recommended Horsley to Buckley.
Other considerations: Looking through my list of players left there are a few I still like (Tom Downie and Haiden Schloithe where two of them who stood out) but I just can't see Collingwood picking either since we added Jarrod Witts as a young ruckman, added Ceglar last year and also retained Shae McNamara for another year, then as forwards we added Jamie Elliott this trade period and then Kirk Ugle last year as well as retaining Brent Macaffer for another season.
The only other player I seriously considered for this selection was Jackson Merrett who I took in the trial, would be a really nice fit as an outside midfielder but instead I elected to go for a more immediate fit because with the list we have now it should be about winning a premiership now.
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Post-Human
Not a Bad Pick. Horsley could be able to come and Play Straight away.
I would Prefer Merret as I think we could use some More Speed
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Knightmare
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Would be happy with either on draft day.
The reason I went so immedite is because I consider next year the real opportunity to start to reload on young talent. Just so many quality young mids available, we just need to trade into some early picks and we could do exceptionally well.
Merrett is a nice prospect and we could use an outside mid. My decision not to choose him came down to my thoughts on Seedsman. Expect he will have a breakout season and as a similar enough player at a similar size I wasn't sure Merrett was such a need. Clarke I also expect could be used as an outside midfielder.
The other real advantage I saw in going older is because we have already stocked up on some younger types prospects (Elliot and Yagmoor who is a real project along with Witts) so I thought our VFL side could do with a real kick along with McCarthy gone from our midfield and possibly Sundberg if drafted.
Horsley will start off at VFL level, but with any luck performances will be strong and will threaten exceptionally hard to break into the senior side. With his versatility at worst poses as a possible player who could come in if we lose a few to injury. But think he will be hungry and threaten for a position in the senior side which is what we need now with our premiership window as wide as ever.
I am no draft expert, as I never get to see any state level or TAC, national under 18's etc (hard to do from Singapore), however I agree that Collingwood will not draft tall this year. We have 6 players over 200cm on our list (including Shae), we have never had that much height on our list ever (I don't think that any other club has 6 on their list).
We also add Hartley & see the return of Brown in 2012 (2 X 195cm KPP).
I believe we will simply go for best available when our picks come up. I have a feeling we will add one 18 year old & one mature age player.
We didn't think that Zeibell was going to be there at pick 11, particularly with Voss being a massive fan and Brisbane having pick 7. The only reason he didn't end up at Brissy is because Freo didn't take Rich at 3.
We were keen on Sidey early on, even before the Championships where he was starting to get more of the footy and attract more interest from other clubs. When he kicked 10 in the GF, it looked like he would get picked earlier than 11. That's when Yarran, Swift and Beams came into calculations.
I think we need a key defender (even if hes a project player on the rookie list like Gordon was last year) but apart from that its probably best available, you can never have too many midfielders. I'm no expert on the kids in the draft so theres no point pretending to be.
Not sure we really need a recycled player this time around as many of our youngsters will be ready for senior footy this year (Fasolo Young Buckley Thomas Keefe Sinclair Rounds Witts etc) so while on face value the list looks inexperienced, in reality they are well developed and a lot will be ready to go.
Would have liked an experienced ruckman for insurance but the club chose to stick with Macnamara instead.
Not sure we really need a recycled player this time around as many of our youngsters will be ready for senior footy this year (Fasolo Young Buckley Thomas Keefe Sinclair Rounds Witts etc) so while on face value the list looks inexperienced, in reality they are well developed and a lot will be ready to go.
Would have liked an experienced ruckman for insurance but the club chose to stick with Macnamara instead.
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Post-Human
Yarran was never going get to oick 11
