Preview R2: Changes v Port

[NikkiNoo]

Just because he trained with them doesn't mean he will be qualified or better than the rest to play through the midfield.

Fitness is the easiest thing to work on as long as you have the right mindset and are willing to work hard. All indications from the club is Menzel is willing and is doing this.

The intention there though is that the club see him having stints in the midfield throughout the season while you said he never would. The club has shown their hand by training him in that group.

Yup, happy with what I am hearing from Menzel and I had tempered my hopes in watching his first SANFL game. He really was above what I thought he would be. His ability to spot up a teammate in traffic with a pinpoint pass was a standout that I took away from the game. Relatively injury free and improved fitness, he is going to be an amazing addition to our team.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Not jumping to his defence. Just wanting to clarify whether we pick a team to beat Port or the team that will play the next 50 games?

This isn't mutually exclusive.

People too often believe the fallacy that a talented junior cannot outperform a poor veteran simply because of games played.

Put Milera into Mackay or VB's role this week and I'd back him to outperform their current level (and obviously far exceed it in the near future).

 

[crows dude]

This weekends game will be my nephews first match as a member. My Dad and I took him to a game last year plus the semi in Melbourne. We bought him a membership for Christmas. His parents are Port supporters but dont go to matches so he has missed out until now. He is very excited.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Question folks.

Can Milera, Cameron, Menzel and Betts all
play in the same side?

Absolutely yes. All of them have the ability to push further up the field as well as play deep forward.

Semi related - Now that we have more good forward options I would like to see Riley Knight play wing/half back rather than the high half forward role he found himself in last season.

 

[Heafy83]

The intention there though is that the club see him having stints in the midfield throughout the season while you said he never would. The club has shown their hand by training him in that group.

Yup, happy with what I am hearing from Menzel and I had tempered my hopes in watching his first SANFL game. He really was above what I thought he would be. His ability to spot up a teammate in traffic with a pinpoint pass was a standout that I took away from the game. Relatively injury free and improved fitness, he is going to be an amazing addition to our team.

Didn't say never. Just saying he was not at the level, or will not be, the other 3 are at or will be.

I don't see a spot for Charlie in our best 22 team with Menzel and Milera on our list now. Hope he can prove me wrong as it would mean he will become a superstar.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Didn't say never. Just saying he was not at the level, or will not be, the other 3 are at or will be.

I don't see a spot for Charlie in our best 22 team with Menzel and Milera on our list now. Hope he can prove me wrong as it would mean he will become a superstar.

 

[Heafy83]

He's very raw but I liked the fact we played him in Round 1. We've not been known for that in the past.

Also, he was born in September 1997. Clearly an omen. As well as making some people here feel old as ****, I'd imagine.

I don't think he's raw at all. Just needs to get more of it. When he gets it or near the ball he is in the right places and does the right things with it. He is very confident with it in hand. The skills are already there. The game against the Roos where he took possession of a high bouncing ball in the middle, spun past a player and pushed off another and then hit a team mate on the chest is an example of this.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

I don't think he's raw at all. Just needs to get more of it. When he gets it or near the ball he is in the right places and does the right things with it. He is very confident with it in hand. The skills are already there. The game against the Roos where he took possession of a high bouncing ball in the middle, spun past a player and pushed off another and then hit a team mate on the chest is an example of this.

100% agree with this!!

He does things with the ball, in high pressure situations, that perhaps only 1-2 other Crows can do…and that's at age 18!!!!

How to get the ball in his hands more? Put him on the back flank/wing rotation as a designated receiver rather than the high half forward graveyard. He is the very definition of elite, he must play!!

 

[Stiffy_18]

No.... I think 3 of the 4 can.

Menzel (when fit), Betts and Milera can all rotate through the midfield. I feel charlie misses out.

Now having said that because of Menzel's poor fitness base I feel we will see more Cameron this year than Menzel. In the longer run though I feel Menzel is a much better player than Cameron.

Milera will turn out to be better than all of them. He will be very similar to Wingard..... minus the flog

On drugs!

Cameron will not be a forward pocket for his entire career. He will move into the midfield (wing) and will start doing so this year.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Question folks.

Can Milera, Cameron, Menzel and Betts all
play in the same side?

I think you can see from the weekend where betts played up the ground a bit that there is a plan to have all these guys in the side at once rotating between the forward pockets and HFF with roaming duties.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Absolutely yes. All of them have the ability to push further up the field as well as play deep forward.

Semi related - Now that we have more good forward options I would like to see Riley Knight play wing/half back rather than the high half forward role he found himself in last season.

I love it.

As I said yesterday though, I'm concerned with how the modern game is run such that if he hasn't trained with the defensive group then they won't consider him (or Milera) going back.

 

[azza77]

Neither Atkins nor Cheney deserve to be dropped.

Cheney was solid defensively but he simply can't play against talls like Waite.
Atkins was classy and did some great things, particularly attacking kicks

Id actually say the exact opposite. Atkins was extremely average in my opinion. He did well to work into space onto the wing and get the ball a couple of times, but then he burnt the ball and his kicks were not to advantage at all. All the time in the world and yet for the best kick in them supposedly he failed multiple times.

Wasn't impressed, but I'd back him in agin for this week.

 

[Vader]

This isn't mutually exclusive.

People too often believe the fallacy that a talented junior cannot outperform a poor veteran simply because of games played.

Put Milera into Mackay or VB's role this week and I'd back him to outperform their current level (and obviously far exceed it in the near future).

I wouldn't. Agree that he will surpass them in the not too distant future, but he's not there yet.

Milera currently struggles to get involved with the game enough. He's one of the few players who had less disposals than VB, and this has been consistent over his last 3 games.

Has definite star potential, but he still has a lot of development before he gets there.

 

[Tex200]

Id actually say the exact opposite. Atkins was extremely average in my opinion. He did well to work into space onto the wing and get the ball a couple of times, but then he burnt the ball and his kicks were not to advantage at all. All the time in the world and yet for the best kick in them supposedly he failed multiple times.

Wasn't impressed, but I'd back him in agin for this week.

Rat had 18, 10 contested, @ 75% + 4 I50.

Was not our best but was far from our worst. His disposal might have looked better if Shooter takes an easy Mark from a perfectly weighted kick, of Tex doesn't shank a kick for goal that, for him, was straightforward.

If you're looking for real howlers that directly cost goals and directly affected the result, you need be brave and look at the BF luvvies - Lever, Laird, Talia, Thompson, B Crouch for starters.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Id actually say the exact opposite. Atkins was extremely average in my opinion. He did well to work into space onto the wing and get the ball a couple of times, but then he burnt the ball and his kicks were not to advantage at all. All the time in the world and yet for the best kick in them supposedly he failed multiple times.

Wasn't impressed, but I'd back him in agin for this week.

A touch harsh but I get where you're coming from…he can do better.

I reckon we have 18 'locks' for our ongoing best 22 (not counting Scott Thompson or Tom Doedee who are at opposite ends of the age spectrum). Atkins belongs in the next batch of players with the talent to get themselves into that group but haven't nailed down their spot yet (Atkins, McGovern, Seedsman, Hampton, Dear, ROB, Shaw and imo Gore, Beech, Hartigan).

There is another bunch of players who are good enough for AFL but will for various reasons always feel the selection heat even though we need some on our list and depending on injury will be rightly selected at times this season (CEY, Lyons, Grigg, Henderson, Cheney, Kelly).

Of course there's another category we won't mention! and Ramsey who I like but is still speculative.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

I wouldn't. Agree that he will surpass them in the not too distant future, but he's not there yet.

Milera currently struggles to get involved with the game enough. He's one of the few players who had less disposals than VB, and this has been consistent over his last 3 games.

Has definite star potential, but he still has a lot of development before he gets there.

He's playing in a totally different position!

Do you remember how well VB performed last year on the high HF rotation?!

There is zero chance Milera would play worse than VB as the 7th defender.

 

[azza77]

Rat had 18, 10 contested, @ 75% + 4 I50.

Was not our best but was far from our worst. His disposal might have looked better if Shooter takes an easy Mark from a perfectly weighted kick, of Tex doesn't shank a kick for goal that, for him, was straightforward.

If you're looking for real howlers that directly cost goals and directly affected the result, you need be brave and look at the BF luvvies - Lever, Laird, Talia, Thompson, B Crouch for starters.

Agreed and I'm not arguing to have him dropped. It was just really disappointing that when we did some good work through the middle to get the ball out of congestion to space, and Atkins was in the right spot aatthe right time, that he burnt the ball multiple times. Not our worst at all and again Id definitely select him again for Round 2.

These young players are going to make mistakes, but you have too persist with them for now.

VB and Mackay have been doing this sort of shit for 8+ years now and then some posters wonder why we all have the pitchforks out

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Rat had 18, 10 contested, @ 75% + 4 I50.

Was not our best but was far from our worst. His disposal might have looked better if Shooter takes an easy Mark from a perfectly weighted kick, of Tex doesn't shank a kick for goal that, for him, was straightforward.

If you're looking for real howlers that directly cost goals and directly affected the result, you need be brave and look at the BF luvvies - Lever, Laird, Talia, Thompson, B Crouch for starters.

Fair post imo.

That list down the bottom were all sub-par for their standards. Add Brown who has been poor all NAB and R1…the team defence thing isn't helping him at present, is a fantastic lock-down small defender but his opponents are getting easy ball so far this year.

 

[dogs105]

Fair post imo.

That list down the bottom were all sub-par for their standards. Add Brown who has been poor all NAB and R1…the team defence thing isn't helping him at present, is a fantastic lock-down small defender but his opponents are getting easy ball so far this year.

Brown was great in the NAB

 

[azza77]

Fair post imo.

That list down the bottom were all sub-par for their standards. Add Brown who has been poor all NAB and R1…the team defence thing isn't helping him at present, is a fantastic lock-down small defender but his opponents are getting easy ball so far this year.

This is on of my biggest worries going into this season with Pyke at the helm. I am in no way ragging on Pyke and saying that he doesn't have it in him, but we have a host of defenders who are all brilliant 1v1. Thalia, Brown, Laird and yes, even Hartigan for those of you that don't actually know what defending a 1v1 contest consists of.

Now we have moved across to this zone defence and its a complete shake up. I think its going to take a long time before we actually start to see our game plan executed properly, given the nature of defenders we currently have on our list. We've seen he Eagles do it already, as to how long its going to take us to figure out what the **** we are doing whens he ball comes into our back 6? God knows...

 

[Tex200]

Fair post imo.

That list down the bottom were all sub-par for their standards. Add Brown who has been poor all NAB and R1…the team defence thing isn't helping him at present, is a fantastic lock-down small defender but his opponents are getting easy ball so far this year.

Everyone has down games and genuine errors are forgiven. Shooter missed 3 good chances in the last quarter and dropped an easy mark near goal in the second. I can live with that - inexperienced first gamer wgo is at least making excellent position - keep doing that and goals will come.'

What's not forgiveable are the undisciplined brain farts that gifted them 3 goals, and cost us a shot on goal the other way.

 

[LC40]

In: Cameron, Hartigan,Knight, Lyon
Out: Mackay,VB,Chaney, Aitkens

Cameron provides speed, pure and simple. That back six of Port can get flustered if put under pressure.
Pittard creates run if given the freedom so keep him honest. Both Milera and Cameron can patrol the forward line laying tackles.
Betts played too high last week, we need his poaching ability around goal. Put their defence under pressure and give them something to chase; they'll tire. Betts looks more dangerous with Charlie there,they compliment one another.
We got very few opportunist goals last week Charlie can chip in a few.

Knight was everywhere against West last week, he runs hard and is a good user of the ball.
Polec is another who needs to be checked but Knights has the ability to run off him.
He just gets more involved in the game than Mackay whom isn't as bad as everyone rates(there's just better options in front of him).
I like Knights work rate and he has the pace to match our opponents strength.

Hartigan because of his bigger body against a player like Dixon.
Lever proved last week he's courageous but he lacks the bulk to shift these mature bodied players.Lever needs a run up and jump to spoil his opponent, his just a skinny second year player who needs to gain mass which will happen in time.
Some will say he's a key position defender right now but I'm willing to argue the opposite. Lever just doesn't dominate or smother an opponent.His checking at times is suspect ,he's far more comfortable affecting a spoil and running off, or dodging and creating an outlet.
Hartigan may have the occasional brain fade but he's a disciplined defender who is getting better at recognising his limitation. Hartigan reads the ball well and is strong in the air, he's hard to move and his presence frees up Lever to play his more natural game.

Lyons because around contests he finds the ball and because he does have the ability to take an overhead mark and kick goals from the midfield.
We really need our mid fielders to begin kicking goals between them on a consistent basis. That aspect of the game stops their opponents cheating and running off into space and takes pressure off Tex and Jenkins.
Aitkens has a lovely left foot, can weave and dodge but has a hesitation in his game at times that worries me. He's one of those players that almost puts on the tackle,just gets beaten to the 50/50 ball. Again I'll upset a few posters but he needs a fiercer approach to his game.

I would dearly love to play a second ruck but that means upgrading O'Brien and how many changes can you do in a week. Jacobs needs support under this new interchange regime and we need to throw multiple men at Lobbe, Westhoff,Trengove. Very keen to see us adopt a two ruck combination in the coming months.
There is pressure building from the SANFL team, it's just a matter of elevating the right combination. I feel we got it wrong last week.

 

[azza77]

Nope, I think he an incredibly underrated defender on this board and that he has a place in the team.

I laugh every time someone tries to detract from the horrible performance tonight by making silly comments such as yours.

Its bordering on ridiculous now isn't it. He's a fullback that is designed to play out of the goal square on the monster forwards. And when he's selected he performs his role in killing the contest there so that opposition teams can't just bomb it long to the tall timber and his 1v1 win rate is very, very good.

What has me stumped, is the fact that we moved Lever into Hartigans role essentially and started Cheney. Id argue that Lever is just as agile, just as good at intercepting (if not better) and just as good as Cheney at disposing of the ball, even under high pressure situations. Lever is also 8cm taller than Cheney and yet we still elect to play Cheney on the talls.....

Why oh why not move Lever into Cheney's role considering he's either equal to or better than Cheney in EVERY single aspect of the game and has the much needed height.

Play Talia and Hartigan FFS as our full back and CHB. Lever goes into Cheney's role as the intercept player. If anything, and has been discussed previously by some posters, move Cheney into VB's role in the backline and drop VB altogether. At least this leaves us with 2 very good tall defenders, still with Lever still being able to intercept at times.

Im tired of Cheney coming across to kill at contest and him being nowhere near enough to do anything about it, and just crashing into our own players and leaving all the opposition forwards still standing.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Brown was great in the NAB

From an attacking POV maybe but defensively he's been nowhere near as good…it's obviously a transition point in his career in getting the balance right plus integrating 'team defence'.

He's not there yet but he's a gun and I'm definitely backing him in.

 

[Swooping Crow]

The dilemma for Pykey is whether he places his trust in good old Roddy who tore it up against Westies in its non-statistical roles.


Roddy’s non-statistical roles are greater than the sum of VB and Mckay. Roddy will remain standing upright in our forward half where clanger prone Pittard is sure to trip over it or kick the ball to it. The other advantage of Roddy is that because it doesn’t move, it won’t make any VB clangers.


Changes:


In: Inanimate Carbon Rod


Out: VB, Mckay