Random thoughts not worthy of a thread (Part I)

[Kimbo]

Can we start up an "Uninjured List" thread?

 

[Kimbo]

Might need to take a break from here. Reminds me too much of...












NMFC.

 

[utility]

Hardly surprised about the snipers in dallas. Not only does that city have form for random snipers shooting people ... so many black people get shot by cops or incarcerated in the US. It was only a matter of time. things have really escalated since Obama was elected.

I have friends in the US who work with Seattle council. Seattle cops are pretty bad. A guy - native american, not african american, and homeless, was murdered by a police officer there back in 2010 and I kind of followed what they were doing about it - a bit. Read some leaked police newsletters - supposedly for police eyes only not public consumption, and it was disgusting. There was a significant element that wanted to take the election of Obama out on the local black population.

Its really more of a surprise this sort of thing hasn't happened before.

Black friends with kids in the US tell me they sit their boys down before they hit puberty and warn them that they are going to be targets for police when in public and possibly will be shot for no reason if they are unlucky or stand up for themselves and assert their constitutional rights. They have strategies for encountering the police that minimise the excuses cops can have to pull guns and shoot people. Educated middle class families btw.

One of the first mainstream gun control movements came about when the Black Panthers decided to conduct armed patrols of black neighbourhoods to monitor police behaviour in the 60s. It was called the Mulford act and was passed by Reagan in California when he was governor.

Wouldn't be surprised if the shooters were members of the "Huey P Newton Gun Club." Pretty sure it operates in Dallas.

I stayed with a (black) guy when I visited the states a couple of years ago. He told me one time he was doing his job (caretaker at a school) at night when a cop car rolled up, a cop jumped out, pointed a loaded gun at him and started screaming at him asking why he was there. When he was given the opportunity to explain the cop was apologetic and left. He could have easily been shot. Nothing happened to the cop for his behaviour.

I noticed that when he traveled in the car with his (white) wife she would always drive... it's because black men get pulled over regularly unlike white women.

There are some serious problems in Australia with cops, particularly in WA, but it's nowhere as bad as in the USA.

 

[Tas]

 

[Cold Gin]

I sold my businesses a few months ago, and have been driving Uber recently while transitioning to the next thing. Yesterday I drove Matthew Dellavedova! Great guy, who was very happy to allow a photo so I could prove it to my son, who’d not likely have believed it otherwise!

 

[Twinkletoes]

I sold my businesses a few months ago, and have been driving Uber recently while transitioning to the next thing. Yesterday I drove Matthew Dellavedova! Great guy, who was very happy to allow a photo so I could prove it to my son, who’d not likely have believed it otherwise!

I hope he tipped well!

Looking forward to seeing him play tonight now the insurance clearance has come through.

 

[B4Bear]

Alrighty then. Heading home soon.

My first game back will be watching the lads kick the living shit out of the Dogs on 6 Aug.

Will be wearing the crowd favourite:


Come up and say hello if you can.

Looking forward to being back.

EDIT: Someone stuffed up and now I am going to the Hawthorn game as my first back. It was a nice 24 hours thinking I was coming home early.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Interesting infographic popped up today, interesting (if factually solid) sidepoint to the current discussions.
A lot of people act like African Americans are killed by police more often than white people are.
But it doesn't seem to be the case, yet this is never acknowledged in the news.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Interesting infographic popped up today, interesting (if factually solid) sidepoint to the current discussions.
A lot of people act like African Americans are killed by police more often than white people are.
But it doesn't seem to be the case, yet this is never acknowledged in the news.

What about as percentage of population?

 

[DarkPhoenix]

What about as percentage of population?

Another fair point.


Interested to know what the "Toy Weapon" label is also.

 

[kangaspurs]

Interesting infographic popped up today, interesting (if factually solid) sidepoint to the current discussions.
A lot of people act like African Americans are killed by police more often than white people are.
But it doesn't seem to be the case, yet this is never acknowledged in the news.

I would suggest that per capita that 115 difference would be massive.

 

[Cold Gin]

 

[Gasometer]

 

[GarnerSmash]

What about as percentage of population?

13.2% with whites at 62.2% so per capita you are well over twice as likely to be killed by police if you are black rather than white.

 

[gokangas]

Alrighty then. Heading home soon.

My first game back will be watching the lads kick the living shit out of the Dogs on 6 Aug.

Will be wearing the crowd favourite:
View attachment 266013

Come up and say hello if you can.

Looking forward to being back.

EDIT: Someone stuffed up and now I am going to the Hawthorn game as my first back. It was a nice 24 hours thinking I was coming home early.

Goal umps should wear that in Boomers record breaker or the retro round.

 

[Tas]

13.2% with whites at 62.2% so per capita you are well over twice as likely to be killed by police if you are black rather than white.

You are also 100% more likely to die if you don't do what the police tell you to do, give them lip, attempt to resist arrest, make a sudden move in states which have concealed carry gun laws, etc.

As appalling as the death statistics are a lot of the deaths caught on video I have seen would have been preventable if the victim just shut up and followed the police's instructions, they would most likely still be alive today. For some bizarre reason, a lot of them believe out on the street is the time and place to fight for their freedom. If you are innocent just utilise your right to remain silent and request a lawyer, go quietly with them to the police station and you will walk out alive.

The police need to hit the schools in the USA and tell the people how to respond when interacting with the police and guarantee their safety if the people co-operate with the police and any police officer who kills someone who co-operates will be charged with murder.

There is just no confidence in the police force there, there is a lack of respect between the police and the African-American community, it is a two-way street.

 

[Tas]

Interesting infographic popped up today, interesting (if factually solid) sidepoint to the current discussions.
A lot of people act like African Americans are killed by police more often than white people are.
But it doesn't seem to be the case, yet this is never acknowledged in the news.

African-Americans are approximately 13% of the population so you would expect there to be more white deaths, however, the FBI's data on crime for 2014 shows the proportion of crime committed by black far outweigh their proportion of the population as well, the higher weighting of black crime pro-rata to population would suggest there is an unnaturally higher interaction between police and blacks due to higher rates of crime committed.

If the FBI's data on arrests in 2014, "Black or African American" accounted for:
Murder: 56.9%
Rape: 34.1%
Robbery: 56.8%
Aggravated Assault: 36%
Burglary: 33.6%
Larceny-theft: 28.3%
Motor vehicle theft: 34.6%
Arson: 26.2%
Other assaults: 34.8%
Forgery/Counterfeiting: 34.9%
Fraud: 34.9%
Embezzlement: 36.8%
Stolen property: 34.8%
Vandalism: 28.8%
Weapons-Carrying: 43.8%
Prostitution: 42.3%
Sex offenses: 27%
Drug abuse: 31.4%
Gambling: 67.4%
Family offences: 31.1%
Driving under influence: 13.5%
Liquor laws: 15.5%
Drunkenness: 16.7%
Disorderly conduct: 35.2%
Vagrancy: 29.1%
All others(except traffic) 31.9%
Suspicion: 49.4%
Curfew/loitering: 46.9%

These rates are disturbingly high, Asian-American is up to 5.6% of the total population and their crime data by comparison is drastically well below their proportion of the population, in most categories they represent 1% or less of arrests, the only two exceptions being Gambling 3.5% and Prostitution 3.6%.

It would indicate police have a disproportionate amount of dealings with the African-American community when dealing with crime and crime prevention.

It is also important to note that in many categories, like murder, there is a disproportionate amount of black-on-black crime, ie of the 2,693 African-American arrests for murder, 91% of those were African-American victims. If the police do not intervene and attempt to enforce the law, the vast majority of victims will be African-Americans, the vast majority of them we should assume are law abiding. The police have a duty to attempt to protect these people from being victims of crime.

The public perception being run in the media is that the police just go around abusing everyday African-Americans, in the communities where the African-American population is high there is going to be racial profiling going on and they will focus more on you. I assume some ethnic groups in Australia are being profiled by our police similarly who seem to represent higher proportion of crimes being committed in some areas, it would be a waste of Police time and resources to treat all demographics equally if a disproportionate amount of crime comes from specific groups in specific areas.

It is a very complicated problem and stems from poor education and poverty as well. Why do people resort to crime? According to the 2014 US Census, 27% of all african-americans live in poverty, the national average is 11%. 38% of African-American children live in poverty. While 23% of all black families lieve below the poverty line, only 8% of black married couple families live in poverty. The highest poverty rates (46%) are for black families with children which are headed by single black women. This problem is cascading out of control as now 55% of all black families with children are headed by single women. In America 85% of all juveniles who interface with the juvenile court system are functionally illiterate, over 70% of inmates in America's prisons cannot read above a 4th grade level.

There are systemic problems why people resort to crime and most of those who end up as criminals are victims of a system that has failed them, who have been denied the opportunity to make something of their lives.

 

[kangaspurs]

Good posting Tas. This is the salient point in regards to the disproportionate numbers between the African-American population and crimes committed by blacks: ' it stems from poor education and poverty as well.'

I was watching a show the other day documenting what is effectively warfare between different groups over drugs, guns and private grievances in the derelict areas of New Orleans. The sad reality for most black males there, even kids as young as 13 or 14, is kill or be killed. Many, often legally, are forced to carry firearms as a means of protection initially which will then later be used to commit crime influenced by peer pressure or simple desperation due to poverty. Too often people that are carrying guns are stopped by police and then a simple misunderstanding or a momentary lapse in judgement from either side results in another black or police fatality. This is an area that is still suffering from the effects of Hurricane Katrina and has seen funds intended for redevelopment diverted into other projects or siphoned off by corrupt officials. The area also has issues with corrupt police officers who themselves are involved in the drug trade, many of whom are serving long term prison sentences. There aren't enough jobs available to supply the number of unemployed people with work and there are a lack of schools and the schools that do operate often have a low standard of education. In many instances poor education and poverty mean that people literally have no other option but to turn to crime so they can provide for their families. It's a vicious cycle that shows no sign of slowing and until something is done to address the root cause of these issues it will continue in perpetuity.

In terms of you saying that there would be a lot less deaths if people would simply follow police instructions, I'm not so sure this would necessarily be the case. Take the recent death of the black male in the car with his partner and young child. He informed the police he was carrying a weapon, was told to get his licence and as he did so the police officer panicked and had a momentary lapse in judgement resulted in a death. That's only one prominent example, but I would be shocked if it was an isolated incident. Just as I would be shocked if there weren't incidents where people who were killed by police were genuinely going for a weapon. Like you say, it's a two-way street with issues on both sides where each incident has to be judged in isolation rather as a part of broad generalisations. I get just as annoyed when celebrities feel they need to blame all police officers as I do when right wing commentators say that it's entirely the black communities fault and that police officers are just doing their job, or blame black culture when an officer is murdered in cold blood. These types of comments lack nuance and add absolutely nothing to the discourse around how to actually solve these issues.

 

[Tas]

Good posting Tas. This is the salient point in regards to the disproportionate numbers between the African-American population and crimes committed by blacks: ' it stems from poor education and poverty as well.'

I was watching a show the other day documenting what is effectively warfare between different groups over drugs, guns and private grievances in the derelict areas of New Orleans. The sad reality for most black males there, even kids as young as 13 or 14, is kill or be killed. Many, often legally, are forced to carry firearms as a means of protection initially which will then later be used to commit crime influenced by peer pressure or simple desperation due to poverty. Too often people that are carrying guns are stopped by police and then a simple misunderstanding or a momentary lapse in judgement from either side results in another black or police fatality. This is an area that is still suffering from the effects of Hurricane Katrina and has seen funds intended for redevelopment diverted into other projects or siphoned off by corrupt officials. The area also has issues with corrupt police officers who themselves are involved in the drug trade, many of whom are serving long term prison sentences. There aren't enough jobs available to supply the number of unemployed people with work and there are a lack of schools and the schools that do operate often have a low standard of education. In many instances poor education and poverty mean that people literally have no other option but to turn to crime so they can provide for their families. It's a vicious cycle that shows no sign of slowing and until something is done to address the root cause of these issues it will continue in perpetuity.

In terms of you saying that there would be a lot less deaths if people would simply follow police instructions, I'm not so sure this would necessarily be the case. Take the recent death of the black male in the car with his partner and young child. He informed the police he was carrying a weapon, was told to get his licence and as he did so the police officer panicked and had a momentary lapse in judgement resulted in a death. That's only one prominent example, but I would be shocked if it was an isolated incident. Just as I would be shocked if there weren't incidents where people who were killed by police were genuinely going for a weapon. Like you say, it's a two-way street with issues on both sides where each incident has to be judged in isolation rather as a part of broad generalisations. I get just as annoyed when celebrities feel they need to blame all police officers as I do when right wing commentators say that it's entirely the black communities fault and that police officers are just doing their job, or blame black culture when an officer is murdered in cold blood. These types of comments lack nuance and add absolutely nothing to the discourse around how to actually solve these issues.

Yeah, I am not saying people aren't being shot when they do what police tell them, just saying in a lot of the incidents that people aren't doing what police tell them to do and when that happens your probability of dying is going to balloon.

With Philando Castile, the guy that was shot 4 times and killed in Minnesota, he told the police officer he had a gun in the car, the officer asked him to get his license and registration and when he went to get it the police officer said don't reach for the weapon and shot him. There is a big problem in America where having fire arms is legal, big problem for Police. I think more than 50 were feloniously killed in the line of duty in 2014, it is one country I would never be a police officer.

What is evident is that Police procedure is failing the officers and failing the citizens, particularly in states with easy access to guns, you can purchase and carry assault weapons in Minnesota, it would make me have a twitchy trigger finger and I am a pacifist.

Ideally, they would want to vastly reduce the number of guns in the country, but failing to do so they need a better procedure in terms of dealing with people that have firearms or are suspected of having firearms.

 

[Dodecahedron]

Colin Montgomerie is Mrs Doubtfire.

 

[Tas]

Doesn't look like a heart to me, looks like the bike has a ball sack.

 

[Gasometer]

Doesn't look like a heart to me, looks like the bike has a ball sack.

Twinkletoes...you getting some?

I am.

 

[Gasometer]

Gee catching up on the Nice terrorist attack.

Drove for a mile... and hitting kids....families.

Dreadful...the horror

So sad.

 

[Hojuman]

Gee catching up on the Nice terrorist attack.

Drove for a mile... and hitting kids....families.

Dreadful...the horror

So sad.

Yep. Puts the footy in perspective Gaso.

 

[Gasometer]

Yep. Puts the footy in perspective Gaso.

Visited France in October 2014 and it was on edge then with armed troops at all key points...but how do you combat this?