Autopsy Rd 16 Blues last quarter comeback ends in heartbreak

Who played well for the Blues against the Dees in Round 16?


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Macca43

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Mar 10, 2011
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He doesn’t chase. He supervises. He has zero defensive intensity. I’m not saying that won’t chnage. I hope it will. It’s just not been there at all and it hurts us.
And the reason for all of that is FITNESS!!

You mention SPS he is not only a year older but has had much better pre-seasons the past 2 years. Dow had the traditional limited first pre-season and then injury ruined most of this one.

Everything he has shown demonstrates he is working extremely hard on his game (going with Cripps to see Diesel, the noticeable improvement in his kicking) the idea he simply doesn't want to defend but still gets picked every week while Jack, Kennedy, O'brien & Setterfield go back to the 2's is laughable.
 

Magruder

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I reckon it may be accurate for the moment Neese

He's just a kid without the fitness base required. Needs to show 2 way running a nd frankly contribute more to warrant a place in the 22 IMO.
He's 19 and has obvious developmental needs, no one doubts he is committed and has worked on areas identified.

The question is whether his development is better served in the ones or the twos
 

Macca43

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I reckon it may be accurate for the moment Neese

He's just a kid without the fitness base required. Needs to show 2 way running a nd frankly contribute more to warrant a place in the 22 IMO.
He's 19 and has obvious developmental needs, no one doubts he is committed and has worked on areas identified.

The question is whether his development is better served in the ones or the twos
His development is best served in the ones, after a week or 2 off to get his body right again.
 

windows1

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Sep 8, 2018
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And the reason for all of that is FITNESS!!

You mention SPS he is not only a year older but has had much better pre-seasons the past 2 years. Dow had the traditional limited first pre-season and then injury ruined most of this one.

Everything he has shown demonstrates he is working extremely hard on his game (going with Cripps to see Diesel, the noticeable improvement in his kicking) the idea he simply doesn't want to defend but still gets picked every week while Jack, Kennedy, O'brien & Setterfield go back to the 2's is laughable.
It’s not true that injury ruined most of this preseason. I went to a lot of sessions. He barely missed any. Had a slight problem. Scream louder, doesn’t bother me. He doesn’t chase. The end.
 

JohnnyFontane90

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Feb 14, 2014
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It’s not true that injury ruined most of this preseason. I went to a lot of sessions. He barely missed any. Had a slight problem. Scream louder, doesn’t bother me. He doesn’t chase. The end.
there's no way to know one way or an other. I'm giving dow the benefit of the doubt to say that it is his fitness that's the problem because his second and third chases are noticeably terrible and i can't see how he could not have been dropped if it was just purely a effort issue.
 

Soapy V

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Sep 17, 2015
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His development is best served in the ones, after a week or 2 off to get his body right again.
Not sure. Mostly Seniors but is it worth him going back to the 2's for a week or so and playing as a pure mid with the goal or working hard both ways?

Walsh has improved even further since going into the middle. I struggle a bit with Dow as a pure forward
 

CoachB

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Oct 24, 2006
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The discussion covers my thoughts on the game pretty well but I have an observation I'd like to make.
I don't think we have an adequate midfield/defensive strategy to nullify the quarterback.
Often Melbourne had Jones coming off half back to take possession from his midfield and provide the set up kick for their forward movement. He didnt ever have a defender near him and had plenty of time to survey his options.
It annoyed me immensely as we let Caleb Daniel's do exactly the same thing in our loss to the Bulldogs.
I reckon a tag on the quarterback at centre clearances would help us significantly.
Just a thought.
CB
 

chunkylover53

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Aug 13, 2008
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And the reason for all of that is FITNESS!!

You mention SPS he is not only a year older but has had much better pre-seasons the past 2 years. Dow had the traditional limited first pre-season and then injury ruined most of this one.

Everything he has shown demonstrates he is working extremely hard on his game (going with Cripps to see Diesel, the noticeable improvement in his kicking) the idea he simply doesn't want to defend but still gets picked every week while Jack, Kennedy, O'brien & Setterfield go back to the 2's is laughable.
He probably shouldn't be playing then. Put him on ice for the rest of the year, tell him to take a holiday and set up a mattress in the weights room in the off-season. He looks tired, skinny and short.
 

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Hands On

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Oct 26, 2016
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Just watched the full game as i only caught snippets here and there whilst sitting in the display home yesterday. Knowing the result allowed me to have a more relaxed and analytical view. I wont bore anyone with BS like umpiring and player assessment's etc. Just consider No Crips, no Doc, Cunningham, Charlie and again we came back fro 38 points down late in the 3rd with skill errors galore..

Cooler more experienced heads in the last 2 minutes would have iced the clock. Regardless, ladies and gentlemen, with a full Russel supervised preseason, a couple of decent recruits and natural maturity We are final 8 bound in 2020. Take it to the Bank. Heart and character wins game. And these kids have it in abundance. Give them time.

I am pumped!!!
 

koutamarto

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Pretty hard to get anything done offesively when 4 of our 6 defenders are all bad kicks and turning it over consistently. weiters is a good kick and simmo is ok but not elite. they others would be considered poor
how many turnovers did newmand and plowman have in the first qtr?
Plowman is pathetic by foot. Having good skills isnt just about the physical execution of the skill but also the mental ability to make the correct decision.. maybe he has a role as a lock down defender but we need to get some class around him (doc, willo, stocker & SPS) and have designated kickers
 

Macca43

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It’s not true that injury ruined most of this preseason. I went to a lot of sessions. He barely missed any. Had a slight problem. Scream louder, doesn’t bother me. He doesn’t chase. The end.
Attending and training at top intensity are 2 different things. Most players are at most training sessions, what they do varies greatly.

The fact you think having basic logic pointed out is screaming at you is as hillarious as the fact you think the outcome ("he doesn't chase") is what is being discussed here.
 

Macca43

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He probably shouldn't be playing then. Put him on ice for the rest of the year, tell him to take a holiday and set up a mattress in the weights room in the off-season. He looks tired, skinny and short.
Rest of the year is a bit much but I am happy for him to have a rest for a couple of weeks.
 

Macca43

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Not sure. Mostly Seniors but is it worth him going back to the 2's for a week or so and playing as a pure mid with the goal or working hard both ways?

Walsh has improved even further since going into the middle. I struggle a bit with Dow as a pure forward
Last 3 weeks 14 Score Involvements, 3 goal assists and 3 goals is a handy enough return while he learns a craft that will come in handy in a deep midfield in years to come.

I love his strong hands in the marking contest as well.
 

FitzroyBlueBagger

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He doesn’t chase. He supervises. He has zero defensive intensity. I’m not saying that won’t chnage. I hope it will. It’s just not been there at all and it hurts us.
I'm a massive fan of Dow but i totally agree with you on this very part of his game his chasing efforts from start to finish is very ordinary even taking into account his poor preseason due to injury...
 

Soapy V

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Ok maybe last 4 weeks? He has played an insane amount of footy over his first 2 years. No need to rush him to 300 games.
I was thinking more long term as well. Thought it might be good for him to go back and play a bit of midfield. So important he is fit and ready for the pre season
 

windows1

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Attending and training at top intensity are 2 different things. Most players are at most training sessions, what they do varies greatly.

The fact you think having basic logic pointed out is screaming at you is as hillarious as the fact you think the outcome ("he doesn't chase") is what is being discussed here.
Check your exclamation marks then when you message me next time. Otherwise I will interpret as yelling. Let’s agree to disagree. You think you’re being logical. I think you’re bereft of it. You think the same of me. Jog off.
 

HBF

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Sep 24, 2002
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Nope. Not at all. Just a statement of fact that you and Thy can’t get your head around. The umpiring hurt us in the first three quarters. So did our s**t skills. One fact doesn’t invalidate the other. Both contributed to our 3/4 time deficit. Certainly our skills contributed more. As did Jones inexplicable decision making. But the umpiring hurt us. Period. Moving on from that now. It’s a no win topic with a few here.
Of course we were on the end of some interesting calls. But the main reason we lost is because of our poor kicking and decision making.

As I have said a number of times in this thread already, every single game of AFL there are going to be interesting calls for both sides. If we were good enough we would have won that game after our fightback in the final qtr. The umpires had nothing to do with Simpson turning over the footy which resulted in the final goal of the game
 

Gethelred

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May 1, 2016
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And the reason for all of that is FITNESS!!

You mention SPS he is not only a year older but has had much better pre-seasons the past 2 years. Dow had the traditional limited first pre-season and then injury ruined most of this one.

Everything he has shown demonstrates he is working extremely hard on his game (going with Cripps to see Diesel, the noticeable improvement in his kicking) the idea he simply doesn't want to defend but still gets picked every week while Jack, Kennedy, O'brien & Setterfield go back to the 2's is laughable.
It's as though people do not remember how limited SPS was last season, or the season before. SPS could only go once in a single play before he was done, and that's with him being the most instinctive player on our list.

Dow looks like someone going through a heavy block of training. He's tired. It's pretty ******* clear. I'd not be against dropping him - our attitude towards Northern and our development team is a bit on the nose; it didn't hurt Jack any to build up fitness and to develop him as a mid in the VFL, nor did it hurt Weitering to thoroughly dominate and lead us in the game he played after his injury last year - but you're absolutely right.
 

Gethelred

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Pretty hard to get anything done offesively when 4 of our 6 defenders are all bad kicks and turning it over consistently. weiters is a good kick and simmo is ok but not elite. they others would be considered poor
how many turnovers did newmand and plowman have in the first qtr?
Plowman is pathetic by foot. Having good skills isnt just about the physical execution of the skill but also the mental ability to make the correct decision.. maybe he has a role as a lock down defender but we need to get some class around him (doc, willo, stocker & SPS) and have designated kickers
I actively hate the idea of SPS becoming a backman. He's too much a natural mid for it for one, and his skills at extricating the ball from a contested situation to clear advantage are waaaay too valuable to throw him behind the ball. Around the stoppage is the perfect place for him.

Having said that, you're not wrong that we certainly need some more quality in the back half, some silk by foot. Part of our problem is that Plow's role is as much organiser as stopper; he's the mature player down there, and when Weitering went off he became the bloke that runs the back six. He's essentially third in line, behind Doc and Jacob; of course he's going to bite off more than he can chew. On one hand, we don't live in an ideal world, we're rarely going to have our full best back six available together; on the other, Plow cops it because he's effectively a bandaid for us, a jack of all trades that is expected to cover for a positional or leadership hole. He looks s**t when we're under siege or when a game is this close, because he's playing the hardest role across the back six; you cannot simply be all things. He cannot be the small defender and the intercept marker and the third man up and the playmaker at the same time; imagine how long your apprenticeship would be to collect all the skills needed to be that bloke. How long'd it take Dylan Grimes to be able to do most of that? And that's with Richmond supporters calling for his head for the better part of 10 years; and people on the Carlton board reckon we do whipping boys!

Plowman is average by foot, but he is required to be exceptional sometimes and gets found out. I'd sooner be blaming Weitering's injury, Simpson's decline, Newman's scattergun and Jones' chaotic influence than Plow's disposal by foot.
 
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