The Law recreational drugs decriminalize or not?

[BEaston]

Asking which drugs are good/bad is like asking which tools are good/bad. A screw driver is pretty s**t when you need/want to dig a hole but a shovel is pretty good. Legality is completely irrelevant to this question.

 

[Number37]

Better question, which drugs aren't good.

Ice, cocaine, mdma...

 

[Number37]

What's wrong with being high, Number37?

Nothing. If that is all you are doing.

But when you get behind the wheel of a car.
Or you become that addicted that it affects your ability to do anything other than getting high.

Then it becomes everyone else's problem.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Ice,

@2:05

cocaine,

The pharmacokinetics of Cocaine and Amphetamine (ice) is similiar with the major exception being that cocaine is metabolised a lot quicker.

mdma...

Some educated facts:

 

[Number37]

Why/How is ice not good for you..

http://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2...ns-to-your-body-when-you-use-the-drug/8275654

The same doctor quoted in that article...for balance.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-15/drug-professor-nicole-lee-says-ice-epidemic-not-true/8272742


25% of people that use ice experience methamphetamine psychosis

Methamphetamine psychosis is characterised by paranoia and hallucinations.

McKetin, R., McLaren, J., and Kelly, E. (2005). The Sydney methamphetamine market: Patterns of supply, use, personal harms and social consequences. National Drug Law Enforcement Research Fund Monograph Series No. 13. Australasian Centre for Policing Research, Adelaide.


The same kind of thing can be said about every recreational drug.
There is not a drug (medicinal or recreational) that doesn't have potential adverse side effects.

 

[The Passenger]

Ice

Good fun if you need to party for a whole weekend but not my fave. Takes forever to come off and sleeping is a bitch. Also attracts a seedy crowd due to cheapness.

cocaine

Good fun. Expensive in Australia (Not so in the UK)

mdma...

Amazing fun. Been far too long since Mandy and I have hooked up. Plenty of studies should it could be used for treating depression and other mental illness. Vale Sasha Shulgin

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Nothing. If that is all you are doing.

But when you get behind the wheel of a car.
Or you become that addicted that it affects your ability to do anything other than getting high.

Then it becomes everyone else's problem.

There ya go again.
You seem to think all stoners're irresponsible reprobates.

If you can find me something better for MS neuropathic pain and spasms I'm all ears.

I tried pregablin (lyrics) however I was reduced to a dribbling zombie the following day.

No such problem with da 'erb, dude.

 

[skilts]

You know that when it's nearing checkout time for me, gonna chase DAT dragon.
IIRC, your good self expressed similar plans

True dat. I have ordered my son to arrange it, on penalty of a thoroughgoing haunting when I eventually go, if he fails me.

 

[Number37]

There ya go again.
You seem to think all stoners're irresponsible reprobates.

If you can find me something better for MS neuropathic pain and spasms I'm all ears.

I tried pregablin (lyrics) however I was reduced to a dribbling zombie the following day.

No such problem with da 'erb, dude.

There you go again, talking shite.

I said if you can do it without making it other people's problem go for it.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Ice, cocaine, mdma...

? MDMA is one of the safest good times you can ever have. while you can technically get addicted to anything, MDMA simply doesn't work when the brain is starved of serotonin. it's just not worth taking constantly, unlike others.

it's ridiculous to put it in the same group as meth.

 

[Number37]

? MDMA is one of the safest good times you can ever have. while you can technically get addicted to anything, MDMA simply doesn't work when the brain is starved of serotonin. it's just not worth taking constantly, unlike others.

it's ridiculous to put it in the same group as meth.

MDMA inhibits the way in which your body regulates its temperature.

In the week following use of the drug, many people report depression, impaired attention and memory,anxiety, aggression, and irritability.
One animal study produced irregular heartbeat (arrhythmia) and heart damage.

Is there is a definition of safe that I am not aware of?

 

[Number37]

Some more about just how safe MDMA is:

Low serotonin is associated with poor memory and depressed mood,98 thus these findings are consistent with studies in humans that have shown that some people who use MDMA regularly experience confusion,30 depression,30,99 anxiety, paranoia,30,100 and impairment of memory83,101,102 and attention processes.79 In addition, studies have found that the extent of MDMA use in humans correlates with a decrease in serotonin metabolites and other markers of serotonin function and the degree of memory impairment.95,101 In addition, MDMA’s effects on norepinephrine contribute to the cognitive impairment,94 emotional excitation, and euphoria that accompanies MDMA use.7

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicati...ecstasy-abuse/what-are-mdmas-effects-on-brain
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/mdma-ecstasy-abuse/references

 

[twotooto]

Nothing. If that is all you are doing.

But when you get behind the wheel of a car.
Or you become that addicted that it affects your ability to do anything other than getting high.

Then it becomes everyone else's problem.

As of today, with alcohol being 'legal', there are laws in place that prevent a person from driving while under the influence. A similar scenario would apply if recreational drugs were decriminalized. The thing is, whether we like it or not, it already is 'everyone else's problem'.

It does seem counter-intuitive to decriminalize recreational drugs, agreed. I understand why people have an issue with it.

However, I think what you'd see, if they were decriminalized, is they'd be manufactured in a manner where the constituent parts would be known to within the smallest percentile - they would effectively be quality controlled. At the moment there are all manner of substances added and they tend to cause a lot of the adverse reactions we often see.

Of course there is a danger that we actually enable more addicts. That by decriminalizing them, we effectively endorse drug taking, but to me, that is a short-sighted approach when viewed in the context of the myriad failed attempts of dealing with the issue so far. In reality, the punitive approach has to date, achieved the exact opposite and created a thriving, out of control, money making behemoth with all sorts of other criminal activity thrown in.

Would legalizing and removing a lot of the clandestine, underworldy type associations + the other factors mentioned above(there's many more pros and cons, of course)reduce the harmful impact on society we see being played out today?

Again, it seems counter-intuitive, but I think it's worth a shot. I feel that the best approach is to just accept that there is a drug problem and that the war on drugs has well and truly failed and that instead fighting it and 'pushing back', it's time for a different approach.

 

[Snake_Baker]

25% of people that use ice experience methamphetamine psychosis

Utter, utter, utter bullshit.

You are continually filling this thread up with DUNG

 

[Long Live HFC]

MDMA inhibits the way in which your body regulates its temperature.

yeah, that's why you drink water. 250ml per hour if lounging, 500ml if dancing. oh no won't somebody think of the children!?

In the week following use of the drug, many people report depression, impaired attention and memory,anxiety, aggression, and irritability.

all avoidable by the responsible user with the right amino acid.

One animal study produced irregular heartbeat (arrhythmia) and heart damage.

Is there is a definition of safe that I am not aware of?

well, in an informal sense i use "safe" to mean you don't OD or die from taking mdma. i realise you'll have some ignorant media example in contrast, but in reality mdma deaths are mostly caused by alcohol, substances that aren't mdma, or people who can't manage the 250/500 water rule. there are innumerable prescription drugs that are more dangerous or require more management.

ive referenced the lancet study before, but here it is again. mdma almost last.

eta- i mean do we really have to bring out all the studies about how dangerous bacon, sitting down, or using the internet is? life is a risk.

 

[Snake_Baker]

yeah, that's why you drink water. 250ml per hour if lounging, 500ml if dancing. oh no won't somebody think of the children!?



all avoidable by the responsible user with the right amino acid.



well, in an informal sense i use "safe" to mean you don't OD or die from taking mdma. i realise you'll have some ignorant media example in contrast, but in reality mdma deaths are mostly caused by alcohol, substances that aren't mdma, or people who can't manage the 250/500 water rule. there are innumerable prescription drugs that are more dangerous or require more management.

ive referenced the lancet study before, but here it is again. mdma almost last.

How much of this harm is based upon substitution, impurities and the dosage issues resulting from prohibition?

Most of the "ecstasy" deaths in this country can be put down to PMA.

 

[Long Live HFC]

How much of this harm is based upon substitution, impurities and the dosage issues resulting from prohibition?

Most of the "ecstasy" deaths in this country can be put down to PMA.

yeah, most of the negative impacts of drugs are related to prohibition, but im not someone who thinks there are no risks etc. obviously just about anything you put in your body can cause problems, and as with anything, a consumer should be responsible.

as per the bolded, it's why i stopped taking it. and the PMA (or otherwise) was directly related to various governments cracking down on mdma precursor chemicals- essentially making taking pills more dangerous. go team.

 

[Number37]

However, I think what you'd see, if they were decriminalized, is they'd be manufactured in a manner where the constituent parts would be known to within the smallest percentile - they would effectively be quality controlled. At the moment there are all manner of substances added and they tend to cause a lot of the adverse reactions we often see.

Every drug by itself has the potential to cause adverse effects, it is not just the addition of other substances that causes these adverse effects.

MDMA is designed to to affect seratonin levels in the brain, but there are adverse consequences that result from changes in seratonin levels in the brain, whether that be at the time of taking it or in the days after use.

 

[Long Live HFC]

there are adverse reactions if you drink too much water (having taken no drugs).

 

[Snake_Baker]

as per the bolded, it's why i stopped taking it.

These nasty bastards also show up positive in ecstasy test kits.

Of course, if we had governments that cared more about people than political scare mongering, we could utilise a simple anonymous pill analysis program.

 

[Snake_Baker]

there are adverse reactions if you drink too much water

As was the case with ecstasy scare monger poster child, Anna Wood.

 

[Number37]

Yes, your brain swells.
Do 25% of the people that drink water have an adverse reaction?

 

[Long Live HFC]

These nasty bastards also show up positive in ecstasy test kits.

Of course, if we had governments that cared more about people than political scare mongering, we could utilise a simple anonymous pill analysis program.

im not that interested in politicising the debate. it's just factual that the crackdown on mdma has caused a massive influx of substitutes that are demonstrably more dangerous. it's a good argument because those that support prohibition on "safety" grounds are unable to justify their position given the impact of their opinion makes drugs less safe.

As was the case with ecstasy scare monger poster child, Anna Wood.

yeah there is that, but that's why i added the brackets to ensure people knew i was talking just about water

 

[Long Live HFC]

Yes, your brain swells.
Do 25% of the people that drink water have an adverse reaction?

did they use it incorrectly? people that inhale water irresponsibly don't do so well.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Yes, your brain swells.
Do 25% of the people that drink water have an adverse reaction?

Your 25% figure is bullshit. You have to be a troll. No way could you operate a keyboard and be on the level.