That's dumb. They cheated, why should they be cleared?
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Do you mean an ex bomber wanting the Essendon players cleared. Good luck with that. Aint going to happen.
And Watson there is no controversy he cheated and was duly stripped of his medal.
_RT_
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Richmond is bracing for an off-season trade and free agency period of considerable activity.
If the Tigers get it right, they can buck a trend Hawthorn is still confronting following its dynasty.
Richmond has won just one game in 2024 and already used 36 players, which equals the club's total number across the entire 2023 home and away season.
Just eight Tigers have turned out in all seven matches – a competition low – and only Carlton's injury list is comparable.
Jack Graham, Sam Naismith and Daniel Rioli of the Tigers after their loss to the Demons last Wednesday night. (Getty)
In comparison, 19 Sydney players have played every match this season, and 17 at GWS.
Unlike Carlton, the Swans or GWS, Richmond is a club in transition. It's a process which began last year, but will ramp up considerably in six months.
The alternative is grim, a reality those inside the club are acutely aware of.
In terms of experience, Adem Yze's 2024 team sits fifth for average games played, bettered only by Collingwood, Geelong, Brisbane and the Western Bulldogs.
This, while down the foot of the ladder, is not ideal.
The prospect of an extended spell in 'no man's land' is the deterrent for those at Punt Road, who are now charged with accelerating a list regeneration.
In no particular order, Richmond has three big ticket items to attend to as part of its plan.
The first is Lake Grace product Liam Baker, who is a wanted man in the west, with Fremantle leading West Coast in the race for the out of contract 26-year-old's services.
Both WA teams met with him before he re-signed with Richmond in 2022, but rival clubs believe if he does leave the Tigers, it will be to the Dockers and not the Eagles.
Those who work with Baker daily can't fault his attitude and on-field performances this season, but this doesn't mitigate the huge call which awaits him.
Baker wanted to find his feet this year before considering a deal and is not afraid to take it deep into the season, as he did two years ago before he re-signed (in late July, 2022)
But if he does leave, Fremantle has ample draft capital to satisfy the Tigers, with a first rounder tied to Collingwood and another linked to Port Adelaide at the Dockers' disposal, plus a second rounder tied to St Kilda.
The second big ticket item is Jack Graham, who is a free agent. He flirted with a move to Port Adelaide while contracted in 2022, and there is little doubt both South Australian clubs will come for him again.
It's understood West Coast is also keen on Graham. The Eagles have former Tigers national recruiting boss Matthew Clark as their list manager, but the interest is stronger than just that relationship.
So, like Baker, Graham has a decision to make. The compensation would likely sit in the second round somewhere, which helps the Tigers enormously. I'll why explain later.
And the third big ticket item is Dustin Martin, who is edging towards 300 games.
While retirement at the end of the season remains a distinct possibility, Richmond will have a deal for him if he decides to play on.
A late-career move to a rival club – such as Sydney or the Gold Coast – would lead to free agency compensation only if the contract was two or more years, as per the AFL's regulations.
As one leading list official said on Tuesday: "With respect, if GWS receive a late second rounder as compensation for Matt Flynn, then Richmond will get something back for Dusty."
As it stands, the club and Martin's high profile agent Ralph Carr are carefully navigating how it will honour arguably their greatest ever player.
It's delicate given he actively avoids attention and dislikes the additional scrutiny which comes with his lofty status in the game.
But in a year unlikely to produce a bounty of wins, the chance for fans to thank Dusty is an occasion Richmond is eager to nail.
In other contract news, captain Toby Nankervis is expected to re-sign soon. The ruckman turns 30 in August, but a multi-year deal remains a strong possibility given his standing within the club.
It's understood fresh deals for Samson Ryan and Rhyan Mansell are also close to being confirmed, while free agent Dion Prestia needs to get back on the park before his future beyond 2023 becomes clearer.
Prestia was injury-plagued in 2020 and 2021, but played consistently in 2022 and 2023. This year, he's managed just two games and is a week or two away from returning from his latest hamstring strain.
Negotiations have begun to keep Maurice Rioli at Punt Road, and Noah Balta is considered a strong chance to extend beyond the end of 2025 in the coming months.
The prospect of new deals for Kamdyn McIntosh, former captain Dylan Grimes, and Marlion Pickett are conversations for the back half of the year.
Jack Ross is out of contract, and injury will keep him sidelined for at least another two months. His agent has been Julian Petracca, who is moving to Connors Sports Management.
It remains to be seen whether Ross goes with Petracca or remains with his management company at Hemisphere. Only when that becomes clear will discussions pick up to determine his future.
Daniel Rioli is contracted until 2027 and it's difficult to see Richmond trading him unless it got an irresistible proposal back in return. But Damien Hardwick and Gold Coast rate him highly, and if there is one thing we've learned in recent years, no trade is too whacky.
Regardless of which players stay or go, Richmond's draft hand is strong. This is the key to accelerating their rebuild.
It has one first rounder (its own), plus two second rounders, three third rounders and three fourth rounders.
That's nine selections! Though there is no chance the club will use anywhere near that number.
A casual observer may ponder if the Tigers are likely to find anyone worthwhile with six selections after Pick 40, but that's not the point. The club will look to bundle as many of these picks together to move up the draft order.
And it's a good year to do it, with Brisbane (Levi Ashcroft), Adelaide (Tyler Welsh) and Carlton (the Camporeale twins) all very much in the market for points so they can nab academy and father-son prospects., much like Gold Coast in 2023 with Jed Walter and co.
The Tigers can keep their first selection, which is almost certain to be in the top five given their ladder position. But they are every chance to have at least two more first rounders by November's draft if Blair Hartley and recently appointed national recruiting boss Chris Toce conduct shrewd business.
And this doesn't even account for the possibility of Martin, Baker or Graham – or all three – departing, which would hand them even more picks to play with.
In the mid to long term, the Tigers are in a position of considerable strength, even if they have a CEO change and the new Tasmanian club convinces Hartley to join them (though it's understood he is yet to be contacted).
And the current levels of instability – courtesy of an array of random injuries – should not distract from the prospects of fruitful trade and National Draft periods.
The challenge for any club post-dynasty – as Hawthorn has found – is when the downfall comes, to make it as pointed and brief as possible
Richmond has put itself in a reasonable position to do just this.
Richmond Rebuild Decisions
If the Tigers get it right, they can buck a trend Hawthorn is still confronting following its dynasty.
Richmond has won just one game in 2024 and already used 36 players, which equals the club's total number across the entire 2023 home and away season.
Just eight Tigers have turned out in all seven matches – a competition low – and only Carlton's injury list is comparable.
Jack Graham, Sam Naismith and Daniel Rioli of the Tigers after their loss to the Demons last Wednesday night. (Getty)
In comparison, 19 Sydney players have played every match this season, and 17 at GWS.
Unlike Carlton, the Swans or GWS, Richmond is a club in transition. It's a process which began last year, but will ramp up considerably in six months.
The alternative is grim, a reality those inside the club are acutely aware of.
In terms of experience, Adem Yze's 2024 team sits fifth for average games played, bettered only by Collingwood, Geelong, Brisbane and the Western Bulldogs.
This, while down the foot of the ladder, is not ideal.
The prospect of an extended spell in 'no man's land' is the deterrent for those at Punt Road, who are now charged with accelerating a list regeneration.
In no particular order, Richmond has three big ticket items to attend to as part of its plan.
The first is Lake Grace product Liam Baker, who is a wanted man in the west, with Fremantle leading West Coast in the race for the out of contract 26-year-old's services.
Both WA teams met with him before he re-signed with Richmond in 2022, but rival clubs believe if he does leave the Tigers, it will be to the Dockers and not the Eagles.
Those who work with Baker daily can't fault his attitude and on-field performances this season, but this doesn't mitigate the huge call which awaits him.
Baker wanted to find his feet this year before considering a deal and is not afraid to take it deep into the season, as he did two years ago before he re-signed (in late July, 2022)
But if he does leave, Fremantle has ample draft capital to satisfy the Tigers, with a first rounder tied to Collingwood and another linked to Port Adelaide at the Dockers' disposal, plus a second rounder tied to St Kilda.
The second big ticket item is Jack Graham, who is a free agent. He flirted with a move to Port Adelaide while contracted in 2022, and there is little doubt both South Australian clubs will come for him again.
It's understood West Coast is also keen on Graham. The Eagles have former Tigers national recruiting boss Matthew Clark as their list manager, but the interest is stronger than just that relationship.
So, like Baker, Graham has a decision to make. The compensation would likely sit in the second round somewhere, which helps the Tigers enormously. I'll why explain later.
And the third big ticket item is Dustin Martin, who is edging towards 300 games.
While retirement at the end of the season remains a distinct possibility, Richmond will have a deal for him if he decides to play on.
A late-career move to a rival club – such as Sydney or the Gold Coast – would lead to free agency compensation only if the contract was two or more years, as per the AFL's regulations.
As one leading list official said on Tuesday: "With respect, if GWS receive a late second rounder as compensation for Matt Flynn, then Richmond will get something back for Dusty."
As it stands, the club and Martin's high profile agent Ralph Carr are carefully navigating how it will honour arguably their greatest ever player.
It's delicate given he actively avoids attention and dislikes the additional scrutiny which comes with his lofty status in the game.
But in a year unlikely to produce a bounty of wins, the chance for fans to thank Dusty is an occasion Richmond is eager to nail.
In other contract news, captain Toby Nankervis is expected to re-sign soon. The ruckman turns 30 in August, but a multi-year deal remains a strong possibility given his standing within the club.
It's understood fresh deals for Samson Ryan and Rhyan Mansell are also close to being confirmed, while free agent Dion Prestia needs to get back on the park before his future beyond 2023 becomes clearer.
Prestia was injury-plagued in 2020 and 2021, but played consistently in 2022 and 2023. This year, he's managed just two games and is a week or two away from returning from his latest hamstring strain.
Negotiations have begun to keep Maurice Rioli at Punt Road, and Noah Balta is considered a strong chance to extend beyond the end of 2025 in the coming months.
The prospect of new deals for Kamdyn McIntosh, former captain Dylan Grimes, and Marlion Pickett are conversations for the back half of the year.
Jack Ross is out of contract, and injury will keep him sidelined for at least another two months. His agent has been Julian Petracca, who is moving to Connors Sports Management.
It remains to be seen whether Ross goes with Petracca or remains with his management company at Hemisphere. Only when that becomes clear will discussions pick up to determine his future.
Daniel Rioli is contracted until 2027 and it's difficult to see Richmond trading him unless it got an irresistible proposal back in return. But Damien Hardwick and Gold Coast rate him highly, and if there is one thing we've learned in recent years, no trade is too whacky.
Regardless of which players stay or go, Richmond's draft hand is strong. This is the key to accelerating their rebuild.
It has one first rounder (its own), plus two second rounders, three third rounders and three fourth rounders.
That's nine selections! Though there is no chance the club will use anywhere near that number.
A casual observer may ponder if the Tigers are likely to find anyone worthwhile with six selections after Pick 40, but that's not the point. The club will look to bundle as many of these picks together to move up the draft order.
And it's a good year to do it, with Brisbane (Levi Ashcroft), Adelaide (Tyler Welsh) and Carlton (the Camporeale twins) all very much in the market for points so they can nab academy and father-son prospects., much like Gold Coast in 2023 with Jed Walter and co.
The Tigers can keep their first selection, which is almost certain to be in the top five given their ladder position. But they are every chance to have at least two more first rounders by November's draft if Blair Hartley and recently appointed national recruiting boss Chris Toce conduct shrewd business.
And this doesn't even account for the possibility of Martin, Baker or Graham – or all three – departing, which would hand them even more picks to play with.
In the mid to long term, the Tigers are in a position of considerable strength, even if they have a CEO change and the new Tasmanian club convinces Hartley to join them (though it's understood he is yet to be contacted).
And the current levels of instability – courtesy of an array of random injuries – should not distract from the prospects of fruitful trade and National Draft periods.
The challenge for any club post-dynasty – as Hawthorn has found – is when the downfall comes, to make it as pointed and brief as possible
Richmond has put itself in a reasonable position to do just this.
| Club | Players used | Played every game |
| Adelaide | 31 | 12 |
| Brisbane | 28 | 16 |
| Carlton | 31 | 9 |
| Collingwood | 28 | 16 |
| Essendon | 29 | 12 |
| Fremantle | 32 | 15 |
| Geelong | 29 | 12 |
| Gold Coast | 33 | 14 |
| GWS | 28 | 17 |
| Hawthorn | 31 | 15 |
| Melbourne | 31 | 16 |
| North Melbourne | 32 | 13 |
| Port Adelaide | 28 | 14 |
| Richmond | 36 | 8 |
| St Kilda | 30 | 17 |
| Sydney | 26 | 19 |
| Western Bulldogs | 30 | 14 |
| West Coast | 32 | 14 |
Richmond Rebuild Decisions
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Honestly, i'd have no problem with it. I think it was all bullshit and based around how the AFL has effectively been covering up drug use since then its a f-ing joke. The players were never actively cheating, they had no idea. I'd have no issue with Watson getting his Brownlow back either, especially if it didn't deactivate Cotchins etc.
When the Bummers Drug situation happened, i was all for them getting punished to hell/ But as the time has rolled on and seeing how corrupt the AFL has been since then, i no longer feel the same. I don't trust the AFL at all, i have seen them throw others under the bus and can see now that they likely did the same to the Bombers. And their actions around drugs since then has been a abosolute f-ing joke. The fact they never really looked through Geelong after Dank was there first, shows how corrupt they are. As the decades have rolled on, we have seen how differently the cattery gets treated etc
no skin off my nose if those blokes are redeemed, especially Watson. Nothing about Jobe Watson screams cheat to me, always felt bad for him
Area51
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The AFL tribunal found them not guilty it's not like they had it in for the players. It was WADA that had to step in to hold them accountable, basically saying "AFL, you ****ed this up".
The players knew they were doing something that wasn't legit, as they had ample training on what they needed to be doing, ie. declaring what they had been taking, being one of the key things they didn't do and was what ultimately cost them. There is no redemption, they cheated and got caught. No argument from me that the AFL can't be trusted, but that's been evident for some time.
The AFL aren't in a position to overturn the court of arbitration for sport or the Swiss supreme court that it was appealed to.
There is no way it's getting overturned.
I couldn't give a rat's tossbag about Cotch's Brownlow. Brownlow's are voted for by umpires and they have no ******* idea / are as corrupt as the AFL.
tugga
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Probably a good idea to at least attribute the article. But thanks for posting.
_RT_
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I thought it had, I'm used to the Richmond ones and the ones I get through Archive that auto link
I had a lot of inside information on this saga. Stuff that never really came out in the media. I personally knew a key witness in this and I have proof that I knew about this almost 12 months before "the darkest day in football".
Anyway, bottom line, the Essendon players were given banned substances. However, they had no idea they were banned. I know this for a fact and this is why they claim they are innocent.
As for their ban, they were guilty of breaking WADA rules and thus deserve their ban. Thirty-four players signed consents that had them consenting to have thymosin. That thymosin was proven to be Thymosin Beta 4. Essendon claimed it was Thymosin Alpha which was used back then for AIDS patients. They had zero proof that that was the case. Even Dank never said it was Thymosin Alpha. He claimed it was Thymomodulin, a completely different substance (although again no proof that it was that either).
So you cannot consent to have a banned substance (even unknowingly). That is breaking WADA rules. That is why they cannot be cleared even though they never had a positive blood test. You don't need a positive blood test to receive a ban.
Yeah i strongly doubt 35 AFL players would willingly cheat, all at once. I think their biggest crime here was trusting the club & we have asked players for 100 years to be "part of the team, trust the process".
the club is guilty, the players are more accurately the biggest victims of it IMO. I don't think for a second Jobe Watson would willingly cheated
I have seen emails that prove that they had know idea what was being injected into them. It was initially some pretty serious stuff. Later Dank gave them thymosin and ASADA knew they couldn’t get him on the heavy stuff so they used that to get him.
Don’t forget though that the players were hardly totally forthcoming with ASADA. They never admitted at the time to getting injections which was part of process they were quite aware of. They were conflicted because they had signed confidentiality agreements. That doesn’t excuse them.
It doesn't but it does.
We ask these players to be part of the team, support their club etc. We ask them to treat their job and workplace more than a normal workplace - its their family etc. That many players do not willingly cheat - the most they are guilty of perhaps is drinking "the kool aid".
If the world can forgive germans for becoming nazi's then i can forgive and forget some sports players being mislead by their leaders and trying to protect them. I don't think Jobe has a bad bone in his body if i am being truly honest - kid grew up with footy in his heart.
The main point was that WADA applies it's penalties inconsistently and it's not the most strict institution, therefore Essendon should be cleared.
I think that's ridiculous. It's like saying that the cops/courts can be inconsistent and mess up, therefore everyone in prison should be released.
AFAIK, the evidence is pretty clear that there was an undercover drugs program run by Dank and the Weapon (forgot his name). I feel for the players, especially the younger ones, as in all likelihood they didn't really know what they were taking, but unfortunately ignorance is no excuse.
It's also hilarious going back and watching games from that year. Multiple times in the Essendon Richmond game, the commentators mentioned how big and strong the Bombers players looked, and that they were such a fit team that never stopped running etc.
What's more concerning is the AFL haven't investigated Dank's involvement at other clubs, notably the Geelong dynasty team of the 2000s. My assumption is because Geelong is the AFLs love child. They never receive negative press, and the roots of Geelong run deep in AFL house (hello Steve Hocking).
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Similar to Willie Rioli putting gatorade in his cup after a game. Obviously didn't test positive for weed, but it still counts as a positive because you're cheating the system.
That's a poor comparison. NOBODY forgave the Nazis that caused the atrocities. We "forgive" Germans now because they had NOTHING to do with what happened back then. All the decision-makers from then are dead. All the people who carried out the atrocities are dead. It's like blaming you for what your Grandfather may have done.
The Essendon players knowingly broke the rules by not being forthcoming. That's VERY different. We are not accusing today's players. We cannot overturn the decision on the PAST players who broke the rules back then.
I've read some wild stuff on here over the years, but forgiving the nazis takes the cake.
What were the Nazis?
I will give you a hint. Not Polish
About 8 million Germans, or 10% of the population, had been members of the Nazi Party. Nazi-related organizations also had huge memberships, such as the German Labor Front (25 million), the National Socialist People's Welfare organization (17 million), the League of German Women, and others.
The Nazi's were the the German people. Well, at least the majority. But we forgave them. Why? They literally started 2 world wars, but we forgave them anyway.
Meanwhile, here we are in 2024 and the embargo on Cuba remains from s**t that happened in 1962. Why? We forgave the germans for becoming Nazi's because Hitler and his magical, persuasive eyes. Yet, the Cubans still live in an isolated world. Why is that??? Who choses to forgive who, exactly......
All very deep for Bigfooty.
All i know is, I am more than ready to forgive Jobe Watson and a bunch of kids for having the bad luck of playing for Essendon during a certain period of time. The only difference between this happening to Watson and not Cotchin is, where he was drafted. Nothing more. It's idiocy to blame the players for that s**t.
I mean FFS, people have forgiven Ben Cousins for being a crackhead who mingled with the underworld. Yet we don't want to frogive 34 Essendon players for being part of a doping situation they didn;t understand they were in? There is no sense in it. At all. Remember Justin Charles at all?
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They all knew the rules, especially the seniors like Watson! They knowingly broke them. Why should they have their finding of being guilty overturned?
Jobe even got up and spoke about AOD (which had fragments of human growth hormone in it) on Fox Footy. Sure they were duped but they still were dishonest with ASADA!
As for the Nazis, your ignorance knows no bounds. The Nazis were German but not all Germans were Nazis. 90% of Germans were not Nazis.
And we haven't forgiven the Nazis, even to this present day FFS!
Former Nazi concentration camp secretary sentenced at 97
A 97-year-old German woman is given a two-year suspended prison term over her role as a secretary at a Nazi concentration camp during World War II.
www.abc.net.au
They all knew the rules, especially the seniors like Watson! They knowingly broke them. Why should they have their finding of being guilty overturned?
Jobe even got up and spoke about AOD (which had fragments of human growth hormone in it) on Fox Footy. Sure they were duped but they still were dishonest with ASADA!
As for the Nazis, your ignorance knows no bounds. The Nazis were German but not all Germans were Nazis. 90% of Germans were not Nazis.
And we haven't forgiven the Nazis, even to this present day FFS!
Former Nazi concentration camp secretary sentenced at 97
A 97-year-old German woman is given a two-year suspended prison term over her role as a secretary at a Nazi concentration camp during World War II.
I know enough to know the Nazi's were bigger campaigners than a bunch of footy players. They have nearly 20,000,000 troops. 10% of Germany couldn't invade all of Europe ffs. What version of f-ing history are you living? Do you really think that it would take most of Europe 5 years, Russia & eventually America to defeat 10% of Germany?? Richmond has 95,000 members - but how many supporters do we have??? See the difference in the numbers now?
And a woman hiding her entire life for War Crimes is NOT even CLOSE to the Bombers situation. And she got a suspended sentence. at 97! They should have hung her - who gives a s**t if she is 97. She lived 70 years longer than the victims of those assholes she helped. She is much luckier than them. The way the world has brushed off the horrors of WWII is disgusting.
We have certainly forgiven Germany for making the Nazi Party. Every October we join them in a f-ing party!
Do we do that for Cuba? Iraq? Afghanistan? Care to explain why Cuba still lives a life of isolation while America happily took German officials and scientist in a mere months after the war and housed, fed them?
I can tell you why. They were useful. Nothing to do with forgiveness. I can tell you that much
Where the f*ck are you going with this? You have completely gone off the topic. FFS you are the one that brought the Germans into the argument and compared them to the Essendon players, not me! They are not even comparable but you are the one that wants to compare them. I've been arguing that they're not comparable! I even told you that it's a POOR comparison!
I also know my history and don't need you to lecture me. I am a lot older than you and have lived through many of the events you are rabbitting on about. So stop pretending to know more, which you don't, and get back to the topic.
You are the one that added articles about war criminals.
I used a comment that if the world could forgive the Germans for becoming Nazi's within a couple of decades, then i can forgive some football players for having bad management and taking peptides against their understanding a decade later.
You were the one that made it a history lesson - i just responded to it. Then you responded with more history lessons and articles. And I responded again. So, maybe go clean the spoof off your mirror and take a good look at yourself for where this headed
The quantity of crap spewing from this clown continues to surprise me. The topics and parallels are mind numbing.
Get back on your meds!
Get back on your meds!
Again. How can you think you are in the right here? How can you compare Germans/Nazis with a group of Essendon players that knowingly deceived our local drug agency in sport? They are not comparable in either crime or punishment.You are the one that added articles about war criminals.
I used a comment that if the world could forgive the Germans for becoming Nazi's within a couple of decades, then i can forgive some football players for having bad management and taking peptides against their understanding a decade later.
You were the one that made it a history lesson - i just responded to it. Then you responded with more history lessons and articles. And I responded again. So, maybe go clean the spoof off your mirror and take a good look at yourself for where this headed
That group broke the rules and paid the price. It's as simple as that. They were actually lucky they didn't get a much bigger punishment and that their club shamed even more!
I compared them because Nazi's are worse that Bombers.
And we have forgiven worse.
So, I compared a vastly more drastic evil against one that is barely evil to show you have ******* pathetic you are being for holding a grudge against 34 bombers players despite being ok with Germans who killed jewish people & started 2 world wars
So despite Germany waging war against the entire world twice in the last 110 years, here we are drinking beer with them in October while you are still bitching and shaking your fist like an angry old campaigner at Essendon footballers/
Find something useful to hate ya ancient fart
Agronomus
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We were found guilty by a corrupt institution. We were also punished twice for testing negative
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