Review Round 11, 2021 vs Fremantle

[Adz2332]

big positives for me were

Wines...dam this kid finally got his head together.
SPP - best game for the club. Mental state is big for him too
Jones - this kid is a machine. What was that? his third afl game? I jsut hope he done get too big. That size at 18 is a worry.
Amon - he is playing super well, but im still just not in the comfort zone with him yet.

and you could argue he still hasnt got his match fitness back to 100%. was bloody impressive

 

[Powerade 08]

I don't know what the plan was supposed to be after qtr time. Second qtr was just a shootout - we scored 30, they scored 39.

It just looked like Freo woke up and our gameplan got found out as per.

Surely if you are trying to play tempo football, the easiest way you can hold possession is to go short from a kick out, rather than long to a 50/50. Did we do that ever?

I guess what I'm trying to say is we need a new coach.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

I wonder how much SPP is feeding off of the Jones hype.

He would live having another brother who bashes in like him and would be inspired by how the crowd respond to Jones' attack on the ball. It would be a great reminder to him just how much we love the traits he has to offer.

Especially when he brings is on Sunday and the crowd reinforces it like they did.

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[El Zorro]

 

[edgie]

Same goes for Dangerfield.

Danger is at least kinda average height and build.

Robbie Gray is the best pure footballer, all of his physical attributes are average but his skill and mental side are extraordinary. Maybe Ablett jnr has him covered in those stakes but that would be it I think.

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[backtozero]

Danger is at least kinda average height and build.

Robbie Gray is the best pure footballer, all of his physical attributes are average but his skill and mental side are extraordinary. Maybe Ablett jnr has him covered in those stakes but that would be it I think.

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Danger is 2cm shorter than Fyfe and the same weight.

 

[edgie]

The fact we peaked in the first quarter has led to a bad taste in the mouth from the game, we spent three quarters wondering where and why all the good footy had gone, and a more pessimistic attitude than it otherwise might have been.

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[edgie]

Danger is 2cm shorter than Fyfe and the same weight.

Gee he don't look it.

Fyfe must be a gangly thing.

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[Grave Danger]

By Wednesday it could be under 20K

"Yes Michelangelo, we...they decided they'd better deduct the number that went to the MCG last week, just in case any of those rascals thought they'd turn up here."

 

[Harlott]

I don't know what the plan was supposed to be after qtr time. Second qtr was just a shootout - we scored 30, they scored 39.

It just looked like Freo woke up and our gameplan got found out as per.

Surely if you are trying to play tempo football, the easiest way you can hold possession is to go short from a kick out, rather than long to a 50/50. Did we do that ever?

I guess what I'm trying to say is we need a new coach.

I felt they woke up before then and had that period where they were kicking points. We basically were marking against their second string defence. They let us Harlem globetrot for most of that first qtr. We were playing some nicefootball but that was it. Amon was doing what he liked until the clamps were put on a bit more. Some of their goals reeked of total undiscipline and minimal effort from some of our guys. I said in the game day thread we are an unprofessional, undisciplined side who choose when we decide to give some big efforts. A few of our guys are exceptions to this. Leaders apart from Hartlett have generally been good.

 

[philthy05]

One major gripe.....

The kick in strategy.... The one and only one we use....
Has it ever worked!?
Do we have a second option?

it hasnt worked in weeks!! its embarrassing now

I think we’ve got 2 clear strategies

1. kick long to the main contest out wide

we do this 95% of the time

with the occasional

2. give the ball to one of our big kicks who take as long a run as he’s comfortable with and kicks it long, sometimes wide but often into the corridor.

The short kick in isn’t favoured by us very often and when it is we then kick to the wide contest anyway.

wish we practiced and implemented a few more variations. With so many long kicks in our side why not set up a play where we take the short option who has 1-2 of our super kicks running as an option to then kick long? McKenzie in that situation is likely hitting deep centre nearly chf. The old 1 -2 with the guy running the ball out? Push all our players wide (ie to the right side) and place our faster guys centre and have them double back as McKenzie kicks over the contest on the open left side and watch our speedsters use the open paddock?

 

[Steve Dore]

Observations on the reported crowd size? Just over 27,000 on the big screen. It wasn't a big crowd but the Oval looked more than half full to me.

I would have guessed around 30K or a touch over.

I did expect the stated figure to be 17,000 so shouldn't complain

At halftime I guessed the crowd at 29,000 so wasn't surprised at the official figure. A lot of empty seats on all levels in the eastern stand.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Looks like Ladhams only made 1 disposal clanger of his 4. 2 are free kicks.

 

[agmsy]

The fact we peaked in the first quarter has led to a bad taste in the mouth from the game, we spent three quarters wondering where and why all the good footy had gone, and a more pessimistic attitude than it otherwise might have been.

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Fremantle isn't a terrible team. They're not good, but they're good enough that we shouldn't have expected to play the game purely on our terms from the first bounce to the final siren. Even in the first quarter, there was a reasonable patch where Fremantle had some momentum and control - they just absolutely pissed it away in front of goal. I think it was at least a little encouraging that we didn't allow them to carve huge chunks out of our early lead through quarters 2 and 3, and we had run and energy to finish off the game better than we've shown in other games (not just against Footscray - think about slowing to a crawl against Essendon and Carlton).

 

[Brian McGee]

View attachment 1142334


Looks like Ladhams only made 1 disposal clanger of his 4. 2 are free kicks.

View attachment 1142336

Apparently 9 hit outs to advantage out of his 21 too. I don’t get people saying that he rucked so poorly. Especially against Darcy who has been enormous lately.

 

[bomberclifford]

I like how, at stoppages, he sticks his arms out like he's an aeroplane and waves them back and forward, hitting his opponent in the head but not getting a free against for high contact

There was a moment he did that to Drew. Almost looked like he was pretending to yawn with a clenched fist. The look of shock on Drew's face was priceless: "Did this campaigner just punch me in the face?"

 

[TeeKray]

I am quite happy with our current situation. not playing great, lots of injuries and a good number of players low on form/ confidence. But we are still winning and seem well placed for a timed run at the flag. I am happy that some other supporters may have written us off as a genuine premiership contender. I would be more worried if we were on fire, number one and everyones tip for the flag. how many teams in recent years have finished h&a top and gone on to win the big dance?
The afl season is a marathon, not a sprint and i am hoping that ports are timing their run, so to peak towards finals time. there is really no point in playing your best footy and showing all your cards now.

Yes but at the end of the day we need to finish top 4 or there is zero chance of a flag. And don't expect the current top 4 to lose too many more games between them so take it as a given we need to win 9 of 11 on the way home. Even top 4 makes things difficult and would require us to beat a top 4 team away from home just to get to the GF where we would likely have to beat another top 4 team away from home - but you at least probably give yourself 2 cracks at it.

It's why last year was so disappointing. Top 2, win the QF and get a home PF, the carrot of no away MCG GF and yet ...

 

[Vagabond0]

Secret was having Charlie in ruck !!! Absolutely killed it in the opening 15 minutes.

From memory took the opening bounce and went forward straight after the first goal in the opening minute.

I can't remember when he next when back into the centre but definitely felt like he played there more than usual over the 4 quarters but wouldn't say he played on the ball for 15 minute stretches.

Hard to gauge that result, felt like we put the cue in the rack and stepped it up as and when needed.

 

[Coobk001]

The fact we peaked in the first quarter has led to a bad taste in the mouth from the game, we spent three quarters wondering where and why all the good footy had gone, and a more pessimistic attitude than it otherwise might have been.

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I'm still extremely worried about the defensive aspect of the game.

In that 1st term, we were scintillating from contest and looked super dangerous up forward. However when they got it we couldn't stop them, yet when we got the ball in our defence we struggled to break their press.

To have 7 shots against us in a quarter we were completely dominant, and then 16 against us in a half, is a real sign for concern.

Great attacking quarters, where the scoreboard goes the right way, can mask underlying problems, and there is no doubt in my mind that the first term good has meant people are ignoring the glaring defensive deficiencies which have surpassed our midfield issues and now clearly become our biggest concern.

We're supposed to be trying to win a flag and we need to be ruthless against the opposition, but also when reviewing ourselves.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I can't remember a game where we have dominated the first quarter and the rest of the game and have only kicked 2 behinds after quarter time, ie less points in the last 3 than the 1st quarter.

We usually rack up the behinds as we go into showboating mode and try and do tricky stuff and usually * up.

The * ups occured when we over handballed taking the ball thru the middle sharing and caring with each other. First quarter 66 handballs to 64 kicks was classic example of this. Rest of the game we had 188 kicks to 106 handballs.

I enjoyed the best bits of our play but had the usual frustrations when we stuffed up and let easy goals thru or poor stuffs not finishing off our good work and taking marks I50 and/or having shots on goal.

Sunday late games are always lackadaisical but this one had some special lazy moments.

1 v 0 free kick count at quarter time probably showed how much bruise free footy there was going on in the first quarter. Even 60 I50s v 58 suggests plenty of easy delivery inside 50 without a lot of pressure over 4 quarters.

Also an 80% disposal efficiency, 272 uncontested possessions and 120 marks shows we got plenty of bruise free footy.

The game went in chunks of domination - We kick 3 really quick goals then they kick 4 behinds the last 3 very kickable. Then we slam on 4 goals. The inside 50's at quarter time were 15 v 15 so Freo stuffed up a bit rather than were hopeless and couldn't attack.

They start the 2nd quarter well with 2.1 then we dominate next 18 minutes or so and kick 5.0 to 1.1 then we stop for an early 1/2 time break and they kick 3.1. We kick a quick goal at the start of the 3rd quarter then they dominate. At least we dominated the last 10 minutes or so of the game.

I enjoyed watching Mundy, Fyfe and Cerra play for Freo. I like it when Jonas can play on the big bodied mids who rest up forward ie Mundy, Martin, Dangerfield etc. Its why I'd be tempted in September to play all of Jonas, Aliir, McKenzie and Clurey, so that Jonas gets to play on those big mids and when they go back to the middle he can play that floating defender 3rd man up type.

Dixon, Georgiades and SPP started with a bang for us. I reckon Georgiades might have a bit of a dodgy knee. He had it strapped up and at times appeared to hobble around the field.

Ladhams, Wines and Boak gave us mid field dominance although stoppages were basically even at 32 us v 34 them, and centre clearances were 16 v 15.

Robbie had some good moments thru the middle and Rozee showed a few signs of improvement.

Liked the games played by Mckenzie, Jonas and Jones in defence. Aliir and DBJ fumbled a lot, Burton was ok and Houston seemed to move into the midfield in the last quarter.

Tredders reckons the opposition sdes have cottoned on to DBJ and are making him more accountable than the last 2 years and he's not getting as free as before and is making more errors under more pressure. Tredders is an All Oz selector and has admitted he did everything he could to get DBJ into the sde in 2019, but failed and then succeeded last year, so I reckon he takes note a bit more than most of us how DBJ is going.

Marshall finally made a decent contribution in the last quarter. Good way to go to the break.

We are 8-3. We have only twice in our AFL era had a better start to the mid season pont. In 2014 we were 10-1, and last year 9-2. That didn't bring us a flag.

You don't win premierships in the first half of the year and we haven't lost it yet with a handful of season ending injuries.

Have a break, refresh, get set for the winter slog and get some of first/best 16 players back - X, Lycett, Clurey, and hopefully Butters by md July.

 

[Chewy316]

In your post you made plenty of good observations about our game and players but this take on Marshall is outright baffling.


I hate when kfs miss set shots and he should be way better at kicking for goal based on the fact his field kicking can hit a mouse on the tit, but complaining about Marshall’s goal kicking smacks of just wanting to pick marshal apart? I mean have you watched any other kf play this year? Most of the top ten Coleman leaders have had several games where they’ve kicked more points than goals. Superstars like naughton would be just as well served kicking blindfolded. If you have a problem with Marshall’s goal kicking accuracy you must hate nearly every kf in the league much more.
off the top of my head I can’t recall these errors tho I know he made a couple during the game but didn’t think they were very bad ones at all. Players committed way worse in this game. Would love a replay of said errors if you can find one.

Was barely sighted before 3/4 time? Bit of an overstatement. He was making contests all night, didn’t he kick a goal before 3/4 time? Just hadn’t had a big impact but was certainly not bad before then.
This is a baffling call and again smacks of wanting a gripe to pick at. I mean have you watched any other kfs play? Who are the key forwards Marshall’s height or more (197cm) who apply better defensive pressure? I’m going to challenge you to name these players? There’s 18 clubs so should be plenty for you to name. If anything Marshall and Dixon are probably the best without the ball pressure combo pair of key forwards in the league.

He’s one of the most agile tall players in the league and does offer something when the other team has the ball. Have you not noticed that while on centre bounces we start Marshall at chf but on kick ins he starts at FF so he can pressure the player bringing the ball back into play?
I think there’s genuine areas you could pick on Marshall but you’ve bizarrely gone for an area that’s probably one of his strengths.
agree he looks to lack a little bit of confidence at times.

if the ball is in his hands in general play he has the confidence to back his skills that plenty of our players lack.



I think you’re half-right here.

He has some of the best instincts with ball in hand in the league, and certainly a would say not just against current players but all time. He’s a unique player with some generational skills. He regularly looks 2 steps faster mentally than everyone else.

But at times you can see if he does have time to think about it he goes into his head and it doesn’t work out as well.

If I had to criticise marshall and point out poor areas or areas of improvement I would say that he’s doing well in a number of areas but he’s just 5-10% off in a bunch of areas that are stopping him from taking games by the scruff of the neck. Most of my criticism comes back to a slight lack of confidence and physicality

He’s capable of pulling down contested marks, as I’ve pointed out elsewhere last round he was around 19th in the league for key forwards for contested marks as a 22 yr old still building. We never target him as we are very dixon - centric but Marshall needs to just go 5% harder in the air, and demand the ball a bit more from his teammates. Whether that is with leads or actually verbally telling his teammates off when they ignore him and kick long to a contest.

I’ve been harsh on your criticism of Marshall but I think you did have heaps of good observations about our players and game in your original post

My issue with Marshall is that if hes only going to get roughly 10 touches a game, he needs to be making at least 80% of them count. At 3/4 time he had a grand total of 4 disposals - kicked a goal in the first quarter and then was unsighted. The big who got a goal late in the 3rd for us was Ladhams. For a KPF who is supposed to be a lead up link man going into forward 50, that is simply not good enough. He doesn't impose himself on contests, nor can one have confidence in him to take big pack marks. He's just not that type of player, and given his bean pole frame, he's never going to be that guy either.

I've watched plenty of KPFs with their goal kicking. It is a problem across the competition - that does not make Marshall exempt from criticism on that front. 25m out in the final quarter directly in front. Sprays it to the right. It's not good enough for a player who gets so little of the ball each game.

The two errors came with a little over 14 minutes left on the clock. Dixon takes a nice mark at HB on the AO members side.



Dixon cleverly kicks to Marshall who is out the back on the wing with multiple runners (Amon, Motlop and Boak on the inside of him running into open grass. From here it should be a quick handball to one of these and they should be getting an A+ forward 50 entry.



From here he completely screws up the handball - high and behind the oncoming Boak who was coming through at top speed, resulting in what should have been a goal scoring opportunity for us, into a turnover.



Marshall then tried to make amends, but compounds to problem with a slingshot high tackle around the oppo's neck.



The skill errors from Marshall there are what I would expect from an amateur league game down at Port Pirie, not at AFL level.

He's just not playing at the level required right now imo - that's not to say he can't make it, but dare I say the idea of Marshall and what he provides this team is greater theoretically than his practical output as of late.

The coaches are going to have quite the conundrum on their hands once Lycett returns.

 

[VineValerian]

I can't remember a game where we have dominated the first quarter and the rest of the game and have only kicked 2 behinds after quarter time, ie less points in the last 3 than the 1st quarter.

We usually rack up the behinds as we go into showboating mode and try and do tricky stuff and usually fu** up.

The fu** ups occured when we over handballed taking the ball thru the middle sharing and caring with each other. First quarter 66 handballs to 64 kicks was classic example of this. Rest of the game we had 188 kicks to 106 handballs.

I enjoyed the best bits of our play but had the usual frustrations when we stuffed up and let easy goals thru or poor stuffs not finishing off our good work and taking marks I50 and/or having shots on goal.

Sunday late games are always lackadaisical but this one had some special lazy moments.

1 v 0 free kick count at quarter time probably showed how much bruise free footy there was going on in the first quarter. Even 60 I50s v 58 suggests plenty of easy delivery inside 50 without a lot of pressure over 4 quarters.

Also an 80% disposal efficiency, 272 uncontested possessions and 120 marks shows we got plenty of bruise free footy.

The game went in chunks of domination - We kick 3 really quick goals then they kick 4 behinds the last 3 very kickable. Then we slam on 4 goals. The inside 50's at quarter time were 15 v 15 so Freo stuffed up a bit rather than were hopeless and couldn't attack.

They start the 2nd quarter well with 2.1 then we dominate next 18 minutes or so and kick 5.0 to 1.1 then we stop for an early 1/2 time break and they kick 3.1. We kick a quick goal at the start of the 3rd quarter then they dominate. At least we dominated the last 10 minutes or so of the game.

I enjoyed watching Mundy, Fyfe and Cerra play for Freo. I like it when Jonas can play on the big bodied mids who rest up forward ie Mundy, Martin, Dangerfield etc. Its why I'd be tempted in September to play all of Jonas, Aliir, McKenzie and Clurey, so that Jonas gets to play on those big mids and when they go back to the middle he can play that floating defender 3rd man up type.

Dixon, Georgiades and SPP started with a bang for us. I reckon Georgiades might have a bit of a dodgy knee. He had it strapped up and at times appeared to hobble around the field.

Ladhams, Wines and Boak gave us mid field dominance although stoppages were basically even at 32 us v 34 them, and centre clearances were 16 v 15.

Robbie had some good moments thru the middle and Rozee showed a few signs of improvement.

Liked the games played by Mckenzie, Jonas and Jones in defence. Aliir and DBJ fumbled a lot, Burton was ok and Houston seemed to move into the midfield in the last quarter.

Tredders reckons the opposition sdes have cottoned on to DBJ and are making him more accountable than the last 2 years and he's not getting as free as before and is making more errors under more pressure. Tredders is an All Oz selector and has admitted he did everything he could to get DBJ into the sde in 2019, but failed and then succeeded last year, so I reckon he takes note a bit more than most of us how DBJ is going.

Marshall finally made a decent contribution in the last quarter. Good way to go to the break.

We are 8-3. We have only twice in our AFL era had a better start to the mid season pont. In 2014 we were 10-1, and last year 9-2. That didn't bring us a flag.

You don't win premierships in the first half of the year and we haven't lost it yet with a handful of season ending injuries.

Have a break, refresh, get set for the winter slog and get some of first/best 16 players back - X, Lycett, Clurey, and hopefully Butters by md July.

Add possibly Burton, MG, Fantasia, Rozee and Gray all playing under duress/potentially injured as well.
Plus "depth" with Rocky and Mead out.
We're a casualty ward atm.

Bonner is, by nature, a "play on at all costs kind guy". So perplexing to see him almost exclusively do the old "stop, prop, wait, consider 4 options and take none, hold a bit longer, then just go long down the line" play all night. Makes me think he was told by coaching staff to play that way? Goodness knows why, if such was the case. And playing him in defence - OMFG. Never, never, never play him in the backlines. He showed a fair bit playing wing/high forward earlier this season. Why not play him to his strengths, rather than his weaknesses????

Marshall stepped up in the last (finally), however his disposal undid all his good work in getting the ball.

Maybe DBJ goes foward/mid for a few weeks. He does seem to avoid tracking his man a lot of the time, so let other teams worry about stopping him generating drive further down the ground.

Way to much over posessing and party tricks stuff happening, instead of ruthless, clinical, long and strong brand footy. Hence the high turnover rate and easy goals to Freo. Luckily they all kicked for goal like Nat Fyffe! Otherwise the scoreboard would have looked sicker.

So heres hoping we start to get pkayers back after the bye, and start playing footy to make other clubs sit up and say "wow"!

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Add possibly Burton, MG, Fantasia, Rozee and Gray all playing under duress/potentially injured as well.
Plus "depth" with Rocky and Mead out.
We're a casualty ward atm.

Bonner is, by nature, a "play on at all costs kind guy". So perplexing to see him almost exclusively do the old "stop, prop, wait, consider 4 options and take none, hold a bit longer, then just go long down the line" play all night. Makes me think he was told by coaching staff to play that way? Goodness knows why, if such was the case. And playing him in defence - OMFG. Never, never, never play him in the backlines. He showed a fair bit playing wing/high forward earlier this season. Why not play him to his strengths, rather than his weaknesses????

Marshall stepped up in the last (finally), however his disposal undid all his good work in getting the ball.

Maybe DBJ goes foward/mid for a few weeks. He does seem to avoid tracking his man a lot of the time, so let other teams worry about stopping him generating drive further down the ground.

Way to much over posessing and party tricks stuff happening, instead of ruthless, clinical, long and strong brand footy. Hence the high turnover rate and easy goals to Freo. Luckily they all kicked for goal like Nat Fyffe! Otherwise the scoreboard would have looked sicker.

So heres hoping we start to get pkayers back after the bye, and start playing footy to make other clubs sit up and say "wow"!

I was going to write something about Bonner, but mentioned him in the Garner thread, so I didn't, but you have written what I wanted to write. On the outer wing in front of me, must have been a handful of times, he did exactly as you described and the ball basically ended up 130m away on the other side of the ground and we had advanced it no more than 10m but 4 or 5 kicks and marks were added to the stats.

 

[FishingRick04]

I reckon Georgiades might have a bit of a dodgy knee. He had it strapped up and at times appeared to hobble around the field.

Saw it, was more a corky in the second.

 

[FishingRick04]

My issue with Marshall is that if hes only going to get roughly 10 touches a game, he needs to be making at least 80% of them count. At 3/4 time he had a grand total of 4 disposals - kicked a goal in the first quarter and then was unsighted. The big who got a goal late in the 3rd for us was Ladhams. For a KPF who is supposed to be a lead up link man going into forward 50, that is simply not good enough. He doesn't impose himself on contests, nor can one have confidence in him to take big pack marks. He's just not that type of player, and given his bean pole frame, he's never going to be that guy either.

I've watched plenty of KPFs with their goal kicking. It is a problem across the competition - that does not make Marshall exempt from criticism on that front. 25m out in the final quarter directly in front. Sprays it to the right. It's not good enough for a player who gets so little of the ball each game.

The two errors came with a little over 14 minutes left on the clock. Dixon takes a nice mark at HB on the AO members side.

View attachment 1142417

Dixon cleverly kicks to Marshall who is out the back on the wing with multiple runners (Amon, Motlop and Boak on the inside of him running into open grass. From here it should be a quick handball to one of these and they should be getting an A+ forward 50 entry.

View attachment 1142423

From here he completely screws up the handball - high and behind the oncoming Boak who was coming through at top speed, resulting in what should have been a goal scoring opportunity for us, into a turnover.

View attachment 1142450

Marshall then tried to make amends, but compounds to problem with a slingshot high tackle around the oppo's neck.

View attachment 1142455

The skill errors from Marshall there are what I would expect from an amateur league game down at Port Pirie, not at AFL level.

He's just not playing at the level required right now imo - that's not to say he can't make it, but dare I say the idea of Marshall and what he provides this team is greater theoretically than his practical output as of late.

The coaches are going to have quite the conundrum on their hands once Lycett returns.

You may as well do the same forensics with Dixon and Motlop who did exactly the same in the second.