Autopsy Round 3, 2023: Hawks skin the Roos

[HedgeFund]

Once again Hedge, I don’t think you understand the game plan or his role. Scrim is one of the comps best defenders. Not every defender in the modern game plays man on man. One of the best intercept marks in the comp, you do realize you have to forget about manning up to intercept yeah?


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Surely you’re not suggesting our game plan involves one player being permitted to simply spend the game intercept marking and not worrying about an opponent?

If so, who was doing that in rounds 1 and 2?

Most intercept markers are able to roll off their opponent at the right time to go third man up. They don’t ignore them totally. Wait until they know their player can’t easily get involved and then move over to assist a team mate.

That’s what the elite defenders do. They don’t guard grass and allow an opposition forward free rein from the start.

Been that way for a while now. The 6-6-6 rule has ensured that no team can start with a loose defender.

Very few defenders have the luxury of playing loose in defence. If a coach decides to let one player play without an opponent (eg. Jake Lever) it is usually in a team which is dominant and has a very good defensive midfield.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Surely you’re not suggesting our game plan involves one player being permitted to simply spend the game intercept marking and not worrying about an opponent?

If so, who was doing that in rounds 1 and 2?

Most intercept markers are able to roll off their opponent at the right time to go third man up. They don’t ignore them totally. Wait until they know their player can’t easily get involved and then move over to assist a team mate.

That’s what the elite defenders do. They don’t guard grass and allow an opposition forward free rein from the start.

Been that way for a while now. The 6-6-6 rule has ensured that no team can start with a loose defender.

Very few defenders have the luxury of playing loose in defence. If a coach decides to let one player play without an opponent (eg. Jake Lever) it is usually in a team which is dominant and has a very good defensive midfield.

I dont think he understands implicitly what a defender is. To be an intercept marker doesnt mean u dont defend. You peel off to help out either mark it or defend the high ball. Gibson was a perfect example he didnt take many marks but impacted so many contests peeling off his man either jpunching it away or assisting in mopping up the loose ball. Gibbo definitely still defended his man when needed. So does Stuart for Geelong.

Edit: Lever plays on an opponent

 

[HedgeFund]

I dont think he understands implicitly what a defender is. To be an intercept marker doesnt mean u dont defend. You peel off to help out either mark it or defend the high ball. Gibson was a perfect example he didnt take many marks but impacted so many contests peeling off his man either jpunching it away or assisting in mopping up the loose ball. Gibbo definitely still defended his man when needed. So does Stuart for Geelong.

Edit: Lever plays on an opponent

Agreed. I think every intercept defender still plays on an opponent to an extent - usually a smaller player who they don’t follow when they get sucked up the ground - so the defender can sag off.

 

[FactsNotBS]

Surely you’re not suggesting our game plan involves one player being permitted to simply spend the game intercept marking and not worrying about an opponent?

If so, who was doing that in rounds 1 and 2?

Most intercept markers are able to roll off their opponent at the right time to go third man up. They don’t ignore them totally. Wait until they know their player can’t easily get involved and then move over to assist a team mate.

That’s what the elite defenders do. They don’t guard grass and allow an opposition forward free rein from the start.

Been that way for a while now. The 6-6-6 rule has ensured that no team can start with a loose defender.

Very few defenders have the luxury of playing loose in defence. If a coach decides to let one player play without an opponent (eg. Jake Lever) it is usually in a team which is dominant and has a very good defensive midfield.

Thats an interesting point you make Hedge. One for great debate with so many angles. But 6, 6, 6 is only at a centre bounce. Take Stewart at Geelong. At the centre bounce he takes a back flank on a man. The second the ball goes in the air, the winger peels back to half back and Stewart roams the contests. He is the extreme of my opinion. Whilst he might man up at a centre bounce, he immediately runs back to a quarter back position and doesnt have a care about a man. His role is to become the extra man not just in defence, but in every contest. He NEVER picks up a man in actual play.

Scrim doesnt play that kind of role but he has aspects of it. He rarely starts on the same player at every bounce. Dont take my opinion, just watch it. Impey, CJ, Hardwick and Scrim all rotate. Sic and Frost dont come off. Last week they had Finn rotating off half back as well showing the roles change from week to week, depending on the opponent. There is actually about 6 scenarios where Scrim and all those he rotates with as mentioned, have a different role but I can assure you only Frosty and Sic have to man up against their tall forwards.

When they have the footy, that group goes to the nearest man whoever that might be. They dont pick out just one guy and go back to him. My point is perfectly visible to see but you have to be looking at it first. It actually is something that makes me laugh when commentators who have played the game dont get it. To give you an example of what they typically say is, lets say at a centre bounce they notice CJ standing next to Rohan. 5 mins later, if Rohan has been quiet, they say, CJ is doing a great job of shutting down Rohan...although for the last 5 mins and most of the game, CJ wasnt anywhere near him and it wasnt even his role to play ON him.

 

[KermitJagger]

Thats an interesting point you make Hedge. One for great debate with so many angles. But 6, 6, 6 is only at a centre bounce. Take Stewart at Geelong. At the centre bounce he takes a back flank on a man. The second the ball goes in the air, the winger peels back to half back and Stewart roams the contests. He is the extreme of my opinion. Whilst he might man up at a centre bounce, he immediately runs back to a quarter back position and doesnt have a care about a man. His role is to become the extra man not just in defence, but in every contest. He NEVER picks up a man in actual play.

Scrim doesnt play that kind of role but he has aspects of it. He rarely starts on the same player at every bounce. Dont take my opinion, just watch it. Impey, CJ, Hardwick and Scrim all rotate. Sic and Frost dont come off. Last week they had Finn rotating off half back as well showing the roles change from week to week, depending on the opponent. There is actually about 6 scenarios where Scrim and all those he rotates with as mentioned, have a different role but I can assure you only Frosty and Sic have to man up against their tall forwards.

When they have the footy, that group goes to the nearest man whoever that might be. They dont pick out just one guy and go back to him. My point is perfectly visible to see but you have to be looking at it first. It actually is something that makes me laugh when commentators who have played the game dont get it. To give you an example of what they typically say is, lets say at a centre bounce they notice CJ standing next to Rohan. 5 mins later, if Rohan has been quiet, they say, CJ is doing a great job of shutting down Rohan...although for the last 5 mins and most of the game, CJ wasnt anywhere near him and it wasnt even his role to play ON him.

I think that someone who has a fairly clear bias towards a certain player should probably avoid posting about them, particularly if that player may or may not be a relation.

 

[tommyk72]

Thats an interesting point you make Hedge. One for great debate with so many angles. But 6, 6, 6 is only at a centre bounce. Take Stewart at Geelong. At the centre bounce he takes a back flank on a man. The second the ball goes in the air, the winger peels back to half back and Stewart roams the contests. He is the extreme of my opinion. Whilst he might man up at a centre bounce, he immediately runs back to a quarter back position and doesnt have a care about a man. His role is to become the extra man not just in defence, but in every contest. He NEVER picks up a man in actual play.

Scrim doesnt play that kind of role but he has aspects of it. He rarely starts on the same player at every bounce. Dont take my opinion, just watch it. Impey, CJ, Hardwick and Scrim all rotate. Sic and Frost dont come off. Last week they had Finn rotating off half back as well showing the roles change from week to week, depending on the opponent. There is actually about 6 scenarios where Scrim and all those he rotates with as mentioned, have a different role but I can assure you only Frosty and Sic have to man up against their tall forwards.

When they have the footy, that group goes to the nearest man whoever that might be. They dont pick out just one guy and go back to him. My point is perfectly visible to see but you have to be looking at it first. It actually is something that makes me laugh when commentators who have played the game dont get it. To give you an example of what they typically say is, lets say at a centre bounce they notice CJ standing next to Rohan. 5 mins later, if Rohan has been quiet, they say, CJ is doing a great job of shutting down Rohan...although for the last 5 mins and most of the game, CJ wasnt anywhere near him and it wasnt even his role to play ON him.

Great analysis. And the important point you miss out is how much operating effectively in this manner requires 1/ communication and 2. a knowlege of each other's games. It's one of the things we're still working through with a young side, particularly as we rotate a few more players through there due to injuries/form.

 

[FactsNotBS]

Great analysis. And the important point you miss out is how much operating effectively in this manner requires 1/ communication and 2. a knowlege of each other's games. It's one of the things we're still working through with a young side, particularly as we rotate a few more players through there due to injuries/form.

Exactly right! This is why we dont see as many positional changes as we used to. A defender going forward and vice versa, only happens after a lot of game plan learning and training it.