Preview Round 3: Changes/prematch discussion vs Hawthorn

[benbanjo]

Bit harsh mate.

2018 - 6th
2017 - 6th
2016 - 5th

Of course, so far this year, is a different matter.

Not a chance those stats are correct. send link please.

 

[Mixed Results]

Not a chance those stats are correct. send link please.

Those stats are actually correct as far as total centre clearances go, but it's influenced by the fact that our games have been high scoring, thus we've had more chances to win centre clearances. By percentage of centre clearances won, our ranks are:

2019: 18th
2018: 18th
2017: 16th

 

[Snake_Baker]

Total centre clearances is incredibly misleading, as it's influenced by the amount of stoppages a team has.

I just ran the numbers for percentage of clearances won (centre clearances won/(centre clearances won+centre clearances conceded)) and we were dead last for 2018.

I'll look at it closer.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Not a chance those stats are correct. send link please.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_rankings?year=2018&type=TA&sby=35&advv=Y

 

[ferball]

5 blokes didn't register a single tackle on the weekend.

Not 1.

38 in total for the whole side.

There's something seriously wrong down there at the moment.

This is more of an issue for me than the other things. Maybe its down to trying to learn toplay an outside game but still ... its not acceptable.

 

[ferball]

How else will change happen with all back slapping that goes on down at the club? They're all happy with themselves except the members and with little influence the only way is to vote with your feet.

This club is in strife and I'm sick of sitting idle hoping things will change so if that means losses to expedite change then so be it.

There's other ways to achieve the sort of change you are talking about.

 

[shinboner spiggs]

The Brad Scott, Todd Goldstein, Shaun Higgins and Ben Cunnington combination has proven itself over the last three years to be completely ineffective at winning a centre clearance. Brad Scott has no idea how to have his players set up, Ben Cunnington is physically incapable of sticking with an opponent, Shaun Higgins runs off his man at every opportunity and Todd Goldstein has been a below average ruck for three years now.

We're consistently one of the worst sides in the competition, so it goes against all logic that this will change while those four blokes remain together. We even had Jed for 21 games last year and still managed to be the worst clearance team in the entire competition. Even with Jacobs in the side we are still statistically a below average centre clearance team.

From what I've seen this season with the new rule changes, it's only going to get worse. Not only are we more reliant on the four players who start in the centre, we can no longer load up our back line for when the ball inevitably comes straight in.

Unless Brad has a major epiphany, it's going to be a very long year. The only reason we have a chance of winning this week is because Hawthorn are also a terrible centre clearance side, however they mitigate this by setting themselves up for intercepts, as opposed to us blindly assuming we'll win every stoppage.

With Anderson's incoming inclusion, and LDU's rise (Brad's increasing trust and realisation) as a proper starting onballer I think we will see some interesting changes. I'd like to think Higgins will spend more time forward soon too. LDU Cunners and Jed really should be our way forward, all 3 have shown to play their best footy on the ball, allowing us to have Higgo closer to goal where he proved to be lethal circa 2015. In freeplay, where numbers are allowed to be increased around the footy, then Higgins should be inserted back up there.

 

[Del191229]

I want to win by 20 goals because Hawthorn are vulnerable and should be kicked hard when down.

I want to lose by 20 goals because it would mean getting rid of Scad Brotts would come a week closer.

 

[Mixed Results]

With Anderson's incoming inclusion, and LDU's rise (Brad's inreasing trust and realisation) as a proper starting onballer I think we will see some interesting changes. I'd like to think Higgins will spend more time forward soon too. LDU Cunners and Jed really should be our way forward, all 3 have shown to play their best footy on the ball, allowing us to have Higgo closer to goal where he proved to be lethal circa 2015. In freeplay, where numbers are allowed to be increased around the footy, then Higgins should be inserted back up there.

Hopefully we see a change like that soon. It's quite embarrassing that Cunnington, Higgins and Goldstein is yet again the clearance group that's been used most competition wide, when we know for a fact that it's one of the absolute worst.

I'm not sure if just moving out Higgins is enough, but it's at least a start. Scott, Cunnington and Goldstein all deserve their share of the blame.

 

[Clarke is King]

What I would like to happen
In: Anderson, Dumont, Ahern, Murphy, Larkey
Out: Simpkin, Tyson, Atley, Mcdonald, Campbell

What I think I will happen
In: Dumont, Ahern
Out: Simpkin, McDonald

Anderson to come back through the VFL. As you can see I am all for swinging the axe. Send a message loud and clear to the group, and stop picking players who continually underperform in their role.

Next on the chopping block – MacMillan to go out for Wright once fit and Turner to be replaced by Taylor if Kayne does bugger all again (INB4 he chases hard – he chases but he’s not quick so he puts on bugger all pressure – meaning he does bugger all)

 

[Event Horizon]

The Brad Scott, Todd Goldstein, Shaun Higgins and Ben Cunnington combination has proven itself over the last three years to be completely ineffective at winning a centre clearance. Brad Scott has no idea how to have his players set up, Ben Cunnington is physically incapable of sticking with an opponent, Shaun Higgins runs off his man at every opportunity and Todd Goldstein has been a below average ruck for three years now.

We're consistently one of the worst sides in the competition, so it goes against all logic that this will change while those four blokes remain together. We even had Jed for 21 games last year and still managed to be the worst clearance team in the entire competition. Even with Jacobs in the side we are still statistically a below average centre clearance team.

From what I've seen this season with the new rule changes, it's only going to get worse. Not only are we more reliant on the four players who start in the centre, we can no longer load up our back line for when the ball inevitably comes straight in.

Unless Brad has a major epiphany, it's going to be a very long year. The only reason we have a chance of winning this week is because Hawthorn are also a terrible centre clearance side, however they mitigate this by setting themselves up for intercepts, as opposed to us blindly assuming we'll win every stoppage.

How are they "setting up for intercepts" with the 6 6 6 rule?

 

[shintemaster]

We are in the bottom 4 for total tackles in 2019. Too many players with 0 tackles last weekend

Where is the pressure? Especially in the middle where we are getting smashed in clearances

Bring that and watch everything else fall into place

+1 on this and I'll say right now "Anderson" isn't the solution to this. It goes way beyond one player, in fact, our coaching staff would be derelict in their duty if they are planning around one single player being the difference.

 

[Mixed Results]

How are they "setting up for intercepts" with the 6 6 6 rule?

A lot of it is just having the right personnel. Clarkson has done a great job using guys like Sicily, Scrimshaw, Stratton and Hardwick to cut the ball off as often as possible.

I didn't get a chance to see their game last week due to it clashing with ours, but as 99% of their scores were from turnovers they were clearly doing something right.

 

[LeFtBehinD]

What I would like to happen
In: Anderson, Dumont, Ahern, Murphy, Larkey
Out: Simpkin, Tyson, Atley, Mcdonald, Campbell

What I think I will happen
In: Dumont, Ahern
Out: Simpkin, McDonald

Not sure how you could possibly think Simpkin and McDonald will be dropped.

If we are being realistic on what will happen there's really only two likely omissions this week of Bailey Scott & Ben McKay.

 

[benbanjo]

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_rankings?year=2018&type=TA&sby=35&advv=Y

Thanks for the link snake.

i think this might be more relevant. https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_rankings?year=2018&type=DA&sby=35&advv=Y .

what do you think?

 

[Event Horizon]

A lot of it is just having the right personnel. Clarkson has done a great job using guys like Sicily, Scrimshaw, Stratton and Hardwick to cut the ball off as often as possible.

I didn't get a chance to see their game last week due to it clashing with ours, but as 99% of their scores were from turnovers they were clearly doing something right.

They also allowed a team with no great forward line to kick 9 in the last quarter.

 

[Mixed Results]

They also allowed a team with no great forward line to kick 9 in the last quarter.

Again I didn't watch the game so I can't really comment. Although a team that's missing two players on the bench getting overran in the final quarter by a much younger team isn't the most surprising thing in the world.

 

[Horizons_00]

5 blokes didn't register a single tackle on the weekend.

Not 1.

38 in total for the whole side.

There's something seriously wrong down there at the moment.

It won’t matter whether Jed comes in, If this is not addressed, we are ****ed this year

As I said before, how this is not the first thing Brad brought up on AFL 360 or is a identified issue, blows my mind

Put every player on notice. If we are going to continue carrying “out of form” players for the next few years under Brad then at least bring the pressure!!

 

[GS WARRIORS]

Hopefully we see a change like that soon. It's quite embarrassing that Cunnington, Higgins and Goldstein is yet again the clearance group that's been used most competition wide, when we know for a fact that it's one of the absolute worst.

I'm not sure if just moving out Higgins is enough, but it's at least a start. Scott, Cunnington and Goldstein all deserve their share of the blame.

You're correct what you are saying. We've been terrible at winning the centre clearances for a while now.

I've said it before a couple times now that we had only two players with a positive centre clearance attendance differential last year. Done of Cunnington, Higgins and Goldstein, nor Jacobs (who we can't win without) had a positive one.

Anderson and Ahern were the only two. Ahern had the 7th best attendance differential in the comp last year which makes him not playing even more inexcusable.

Tyson only attended 1.6 centre clearances for Melb. last year but somehow won .7 by himself. So it's safe to say he would have had an positive centre clearance attendance differential. I'm not sure how relevant this is as the sample size is small and he had Gawn rucking who's hitout to advantage % is much higher than Goldies.

Anderson and Ahern will help but we were still last with them last year. We really need to change things up but I can't see Scott moving even a little bit away from the old guys any time soon.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Those stats are actually correct as far as total centre clearances go, but it's influenced by the fact that our games have been high scoring, thus we've had more chances to win centre clearances. By percentage of centre clearances won, our ranks are:

2019: 18th
2018: 18th
2017: 16th

Okay, seeing as you have the info.

When you get a spare moment can you do some numbers on the inclusion of Jacobs alone, the inclusion of Jacobs alone, and the inclusion of Jacobs and Anderson?

 

[Snake_Baker]

Now here's something I never thought I would see in a Clarkson side.

Hawthorn lead the comp for turnovers!!!!

 

[Billy Not Really]

Now here's something I never thought I would see in a Clarkson side.

Hawthorn lead the comp for turnovers!!!!

And bizarrely, all of their scores from that Doggies game came from turnovers.

It's gonna be a weird game on Sunday. It could go either way honestly, but it's about who responds better. North after 0-2 or Clarko after a Q4 belting and key players going down.

 

[Samsquanch]

I want to win by 20 goals because Hawthorn are vulnerable and should be kicked hard when down.

I want to lose by 20 goals because it would mean getting rid of Scad Brotts would come a week closer.

You know what? The last time we beat Hawthorne by 20 goals was amazing. We need to do it again.

Don't wanna lose it fellas. Win by 20 against the hucks and the world will be back on its correct axis (for at least a week).

 

[giantroo]

"The flu has swept through North Melbourne!" - Jay Clark has the inside word on the Hawks vs the Roos this Sunday.

Listen: bit.ly/DontArgue19

 

[king of the road]

Yes, it seems as if the tide has turned. (That or I have unignored a lot of previously ignored posters and this is the result.)


I haven't criticicsd Brad nor posted pious judgements of those who have. However, I do find the volume of negative rants to be a form of negative bandwagonning and disturbingly binary, churlish and pervasive in tone. In other words, the views seem to be 'Brad has never done anything good for this club, he's shit, always been shit etc.' I get the frustration, but as usual BF tops itself in topping itself.


Very magnanimous of you KC. Comments from the former camp seem less than reasoned when they are so black and white in their condemnation of Brad, his ancestory and his overall legacy at the club.

For me, I am now, finally inclined to think he's had enough time and doesn't seem capable of eliciting the major shift required to have this team perform at a top four level consistently through the H&A. I suspect if he could, he'd do okay in the finals where I think he's had the team perform beyond expectations. (On a side but related note, I'd love it if we had a genuine home ground - crowd - advantage and you can see the impact this can have in terms of our Hobart record.)

That said, I'm holding back until a bit later in the season to see if there is a glimmer of hope with this team. I cut him some slack with injuries (Daw, Jacobs and Anderson in particular) and also the need to gel the team with a significant number of newbies, from the draft and other clubs. Part of this is a symbiosis/synergy issue, some of it is working out the best mix. I'm also prepared to cut him some slack re underdone players. I'm less inclined to forgive him for not being more ruthless in selections.

I do agree, however, that he seems slow to adapt and, given he was on the rules committee, that's especially unacceptable with respect to the 6-6-6 rule. (It may also be a recruitment issue that we don't have many players who have initial burst speed.) I'm also heartily sick of the poor round 1 record. Like Jordan Lewis said re Melbourne's record against us, at some point you have to acknowledge a pattern for what it is, and not dismiss it as irrelevant. It's not just 1 of 22 games.

So, disillusioned, disappointed but with a glimmer of belief.

Thanks for the balanced, considered & articulate contribution - severely lacking on here of late.