boncer34
Formerly "Dos23"
Needs to be upgraded?
AFL Autopsy Round 4: 65 point loss to Adelaide
- Thread starter Harlequin
- Start date
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I just don't think there's a spot for him anymore. If his opponent's are beating him, he's near useless as he offers nothing going the other way.
Last night Betts kicks five on him - we move McGrath to Betts and Bags goes to Menzel - and what do you know, Menzel kicks the next goal.
Next week I'd go McGrath to Elliot, Ambrose to Fas and Hurley to Moore. Also, for the record, Fas killed Bags last year.
Killer_Mike
Premiership Player
Just finished watching the first qtr and thought I would share a few points. Just a generalised comment on the qtr is we were killed in the midfield and in particular how clean we were with the ball and the lack of pressure on the way out.
Some individual points:
-First massive disappointment was Pops was unfortunately directly responsible for three goals from turnovers. Its out of character for him so we just dismiss it and move on.
-Our midfield setup was mostly Leuy, Goddard and Jobe as the anchors and then a heavy rotation of younger players.
-Goddard is a star! He keeps moving at all times so his opponent can't knock him off balance and use knows when to go and is polished with disposing of it. Our best in first qtr.
-Parish is another that is always moving all the time and also knows how to read a tap! We know how he performed last year and he's got a very good midfielder written all over him. Won a couple of clearances but does tend to just throw it on the boot at this stage. Unlike Adelaide who run in waves, he can't use his elite hands to give somebody else the clearing kick so he has know choice but to hack it forward.
-Leuy has in my opinion got lots to work on. He's a workhorse and continues to give 100% but boy did he get smashed by Jacobs in that first qtr. He has no feel in his hands so is constantly hitting it in the direction of our midfielders but more often than not into a 50/50 situation where Adelaide were able to win possession and then with slick handball that almost always hits a teammate they can move it quickly forward. Around the ground Jacobs provides plenty of links in the chain where as Leuy in the odd chance he got a possession he butchered it.
-Langford was in the middle on about 5 rotations and the way our set up is he is often the furtherest from the ball and is often the one minding a man. Now I'm not sure if thats under coaching or he is just more concerned about his opposing player but he looks to be more often than not the negating player.
-Jobe does appear to be struggling a bit with the constant battering he cops around the stoppages. He is the one constantly under the pack getting it out so its not expected that he provide the dash but a couple of time I did notice he did get burnt on the spread. I think he's still got lots of improvement in him though so I'm not to concerned. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see him get rested a couple of times this year though.
-Merrett ad Tips both went in at times also but wait of numbers from Adelaide meant they were mostly ineffectual in the first qtr. Merrett did provide lots of run on the outside though and is such a classy user of the ball.
-Interestingly Joe went in for a couple of centre square bounces and in my opinion if he wasn't such a superstar forward he might actually make a very good ruck.His athleticism was to much for Jacobs and I was pleasantly surprised with how soft his hands were. Actually knows where to put the ball and also provides something when the ball hits the deck.
Overall it appears to me that we have a mix of older veterans and then some very inexperienced kids rotating through that just aren't used to playing along side each other. Woosha has stated that we won't see genuine improvement until later in the year and I suspect thats the case. Adelaide are exceptionally well drilled and just bat deeper at this stage.
Some individual points:
-First massive disappointment was Pops was unfortunately directly responsible for three goals from turnovers. Its out of character for him so we just dismiss it and move on.
-Our midfield setup was mostly Leuy, Goddard and Jobe as the anchors and then a heavy rotation of younger players.
-Goddard is a star! He keeps moving at all times so his opponent can't knock him off balance and use knows when to go and is polished with disposing of it. Our best in first qtr.
-Parish is another that is always moving all the time and also knows how to read a tap! We know how he performed last year and he's got a very good midfielder written all over him. Won a couple of clearances but does tend to just throw it on the boot at this stage. Unlike Adelaide who run in waves, he can't use his elite hands to give somebody else the clearing kick so he has know choice but to hack it forward.
-Leuy has in my opinion got lots to work on. He's a workhorse and continues to give 100% but boy did he get smashed by Jacobs in that first qtr. He has no feel in his hands so is constantly hitting it in the direction of our midfielders but more often than not into a 50/50 situation where Adelaide were able to win possession and then with slick handball that almost always hits a teammate they can move it quickly forward. Around the ground Jacobs provides plenty of links in the chain where as Leuy in the odd chance he got a possession he butchered it.
-Langford was in the middle on about 5 rotations and the way our set up is he is often the furtherest from the ball and is often the one minding a man. Now I'm not sure if thats under coaching or he is just more concerned about his opposing player but he looks to be more often than not the negating player.
-Jobe does appear to be struggling a bit with the constant battering he cops around the stoppages. He is the one constantly under the pack getting it out so its not expected that he provide the dash but a couple of time I did notice he did get burnt on the spread. I think he's still got lots of improvement in him though so I'm not to concerned. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see him get rested a couple of times this year though.
-Merrett ad Tips both went in at times also but wait of numbers from Adelaide meant they were mostly ineffectual in the first qtr. Merrett did provide lots of run on the outside though and is such a classy user of the ball.
-Interestingly Joe went in for a couple of centre square bounces and in my opinion if he wasn't such a superstar forward he might actually make a very good ruck.His athleticism was to much for Jacobs and I was pleasantly surprised with how soft his hands were. Actually knows where to put the ball and also provides something when the ball hits the deck.
Overall it appears to me that we have a mix of older veterans and then some very inexperienced kids rotating through that just aren't used to playing along side each other. Woosha has stated that we won't see genuine improvement until later in the year and I suspect thats the case. Adelaide are exceptionally well drilled and just bat deeper at this stage.
I have a mental block but who was the player who was taking the ruck contests near goal in the last quarter? Did some amazingly smart back hand taps. Was someone who I didn't usually associate with playing ruck.
Natrat?
- Jun 26, 2012
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We actually won the centre clearances
Does it still count as a centre clearance when you move the ball backwards before coughing it up to the oppo in their forward 50?
- Jun 26, 2012
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Michael Quinn
Killer_Mike
Premiership Player
2nd Qtr.
Stated to look much better with Goddard continuing to win clearances and Jobe pitching in.
-Saw Fantasia in there more this qtr and its plain to see what a bit of speed can do. We got cleaner ball o the outside which allowed Jobe to do his contested work and gave us some drive.
-Merret was used more in the qtr back role and boy is he good at it. Set up multiple plays from half back with supreme vision and ball use. His kicking is a feature but his hands are not far behind! Reminds me a little of a slightly more outside version of Simon Black.
-Wala and Colyer along with cameos from Zaka provided much more spark.
-Don't want to seem to be picking on Leuy but unfortunately his tap outs were mostly to space where again more often they were run onto by Adelaide players.
-Not a game where you can make a fair assessment of the defenders. Adelaide on the spread is a sight to behold and unfortunately it was moving so fast and clean that their is no chance for our midfield to get back and help out defence. Mostly one on ones with the forward having room to work in and the kick coming in was to advantage. Eddie is a freak in one on ones and very little Bags can do.
Stated to look much better with Goddard continuing to win clearances and Jobe pitching in.
-Saw Fantasia in there more this qtr and its plain to see what a bit of speed can do. We got cleaner ball o the outside which allowed Jobe to do his contested work and gave us some drive.
-Merret was used more in the qtr back role and boy is he good at it. Set up multiple plays from half back with supreme vision and ball use. His kicking is a feature but his hands are not far behind! Reminds me a little of a slightly more outside version of Simon Black.
-Wala and Colyer along with cameos from Zaka provided much more spark.
-Don't want to seem to be picking on Leuy but unfortunately his tap outs were mostly to space where again more often they were run onto by Adelaide players.
-Not a game where you can make a fair assessment of the defenders. Adelaide on the spread is a sight to behold and unfortunately it was moving so fast and clean that their is no chance for our midfield to get back and help out defence. Mostly one on ones with the forward having room to work in and the kick coming in was to advantage. Eddie is a freak in one on ones and very little Bags can do.
I'm a little worried about Hurley not playing with any energy and looks like he cant be ****ed.
RedmanWasHere
Rarely in kitchens at parties.
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The Prosecutor
Brownlow Medallist
- Sep 13, 2011
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It was Joey I think
Killer_Mike
Premiership Player
3rd Qtr.
Won the qtr easily and really played the style of football that I think Woosha would like to see more of.
A lot less goals in this quarter which allowed us to get far more numbers at each contest our fleet foot players really capitalised on it. McGrath, McKenna and Brown all very strong off half back and Coyer, Merrett and Fantasia offering a lot more run through the middle.
Unfortunately because we had most of our smalls playing through the middle only Langford offered anything resembling a target and Green was used in the Alwyn Davey role(kick it onto his head and hope he can mark it)!
Through wait of numbers we smashed them in clearances with would explain how we managed to finish the game even in that regard.
Backline looked far more organised and ran the ball out much better due to our mosquito fleet putting pressure on the Adelaide ball carriers and restricting their influence.
Won the qtr easily and really played the style of football that I think Woosha would like to see more of.
A lot less goals in this quarter which allowed us to get far more numbers at each contest our fleet foot players really capitalised on it. McGrath, McKenna and Brown all very strong off half back and Coyer, Merrett and Fantasia offering a lot more run through the middle.
Unfortunately because we had most of our smalls playing through the middle only Langford offered anything resembling a target and Green was used in the Alwyn Davey role(kick it onto his head and hope he can mark it)!
Through wait of numbers we smashed them in clearances with would explain how we managed to finish the game even in that regard.
Backline looked far more organised and ran the ball out much better due to our mosquito fleet putting pressure on the Adelaide ball carriers and restricting their influence.
Too bad it took them a half why was that 3rd qrt not there from the get go.
- Jan 10, 2015
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They weren't up for the game. They played like they were still playing Carlton in the wet. Fumbling, panicking, rushing.
Killer_Mike
Premiership Player
Same reason we have struggled for the last dozen years! Play to many one paced players through midfield in a day and age where midfield is king.
Looked much better when the mosquito fleet went on the ball but unfortunately that also robbed us of weapons in the forward line.
If we add a couple of very good midfielders through the draft and continue to develop the ones we have I'm confident we can turn it around very fast!
This is the best Essendon side I've seen for a while but we are going to have our ups and downs.
He did ok. However, we need something different from his spot. We need a marking forward. Langford keeps his spot only if he's a solid contributor in the middle. He is too slow of mind in that heat right now though. I think he will be solid down the track but I want him to have plenty of midfield minutes in the VFL. We need more pace and grunt around the ball. A lot of people think it was Adelaide putting the cue in the rack in the 3rd quarter, but I think it was us getting our hands on the ball at stoppages and Ambrose and McGrath doing great jobs so that Tex and Eddie were not able to do as they pleased, like they did in the first half. Similarly Brown was not too bad, but I can't see where he goes.
We need to persist with Hooker forward for now but set up our backline better. Firstly, Ambrose takes number 1 forward from now on. Hurley can take number 2 where his running off won't be so disastrous if he doesn't effect the contest he tries to get to. This will help him gain confidence again. McGrath gets number one small forward, especially quick ones. I'd only give a smart tough player like Stevie J to Kelly or Baggers.
Some people say they can't see the benefit of Hooker regards Daniher, well they're not opening their eyes. He is able to go harder up the ground without the responsibility of having to man the F50. Hooker has started each game poorly this year but shown good signs (only in flashes) late in games. Yes, he needs to start deep, but he needs to come hard at the ball. That makes it harder for their 3rd defender to fly over the top while he wrestles with his opponent. It also brings the smalls into the game more.
Heppell, Merrett, Parish, Goddard and Watson are a good start to the midfield, but from, that we need another beast to support Watson (Myers) and players with explosive speed. We don't really have the latter at the moment (which is why I think Martin or Ablett would be a bigger improvement to our list than anyone else). Injuries to Redman and Laverde are not good because we need to be developing them for a role like that too. It also means that while they are serviceable on many levels Stanton and Zaka need to make way. We need Colyer on a wing and we need to rotate Tippa through the middle on occasion too. I think we can look at a game plan like the Crows with Fantasia and Colyer starting center bounces at halfback and running through the square.
I think we're really going to struggle next week against Collingwood. Their midfield is full of players who compete hard at stoppages AND break on the spread. That is exactly the player that kills us. I also think in Hurley's current lack of shape that if one of Moore or White will kill him athletically.
I think the coaches need to take a good hard look at themselves regards the last two weeks. Against Carlton, we did not set up for wet weather footy. We should have had a structure forward of the ball that encouraged players to just knock it on or hack it forward. Fiddling with the ball was difficult and that extra half a second gathering in the wet gave Carlton players ample time to tackle. Similarly, we didn't set up defensively to counter Carlton doing the same. Rolling the dice last night was a disaster. Also, they should know the limitations of Baguely and Hurley right now and exposing them like that can have a negative mental effect for weeks.
We are short pace down back, pace on the ball and strength on the ball. Luenberger is a shambles with the ball in hand and has zero core strength so is easily pushed around by his opponent. I don't know how we cover the midfield at the moment, elevating McGrath ahead of Baguely down back and a better team defence can cover the defensive issues. However, if we get those areas right our structure forward of the ball is good enough. If Bellchambers is fit enough to ruck out the game then I'd have him in ahead of Luenberger and Stewart as backup ruck. Daniher CHF, resting ruck drawing defenders away from Hooker and three fast smalls is the best option. Francis as the third defender gives us a lot of flexibility as well. Because a swap between him and Hooker can really change both ends of the ground. If Ambrose is taking the number 1 forward Francis in support helps Hurley be more selective about when he gets off his man as well.
Bellchambers provides more aggression around the ball than Luenberger. Myers more strength. Merrett has plenty of speed, just need to somehow get more speed around the ball. I think we can cover that with wings and half forwards close to the stoppage. Tippa is the only one with the core strength and speed to do that right now though. Maybe Howlett to play as an inside mid as well.
We need more aggression from our defenders as well. They need to get body contact earlier and push into their opponents so that they run at the ball first. It is very disheartening when you see leaders like Hurley and Baguely trail their man to the ball.
On current form their midfield will control the game. The ball coming into our forwardline will be under a lot of pressure and their 3rd rate defense will be able to cover it. Their midfield will push back and provide plenty of support running it out of there. Then Grundy, Sidebottom, Trelor and Pendlebury will all hit the scoreboard as well.
I agree with you if we're able to break even in the midfield. It won't happen without massive changes that I can't envisage at the moment.
Dodoros obsession with drafting HBF and trying to turn them into mids has bitten us on the bum over the years.
Killer_Mike
Premiership Player
My personal opinion but I think he's done as well as can be expected with the picks we've had.
No recruiters have a 100% record.
We have just been trapped in that football oblivion for so long we just haven't had access to enough good picks until recently.
- Jul 22, 2016
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Believe me we used to do the same thing, its debatable we still do but last year it hurt us badly sticking with a clearly cooked Thompson as our main mid. Anyway I know the result wasn't what you guys wanted but Adelaide Oval is a tough place to play the Crows at these days. On the bright side Zach Merrett is a genuine star, hard to believe he's still so young. Seems a very complete player with incredible skills and decision making, a real pleasure to watch even as your opponent.
- Jul 22, 2016
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I thought some of that ruck stuff was horrible too, usually I've found Jacobs the one having it done to him but last felt he got away with far too much.
EnolaGay
Premium Gold
You can stop worrying because you're wrong. He certainly gives a *.
EnolaGay
Premium Gold
Your boys look really good at the moment - Adelaide's ability to cover for players leaving/retiring is pretty amazing. Throw Lyons and Thompson (albeit still around) in from last season and you guys haven't missed a beat, arguably are stronger. That's not to mention Dangerfield and the plethora of KP players in recent years. The real test will be how you go against the other A graders away from AO, but I'd love to be in your shoes.
ant555
The Oracle
- May 4, 2004
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We need another KP forward, a couple more midfielders and a young ruck. Going to take the easy way out and say the best player available when we pick where ever that may be between 8 and 12 (my prediction on where we will finish). The only spot we do not urgently need to cover is KP defense.
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