VFL Round 7 - Collingwood vs Williamstown at Olympic Park Oval (Pies WON, replay OP #PrayForFrankston)

[1892]

Jarrod witts is too good for VFL Surley

Played a really good game on the weekend, some of his kicks were sublime. Noticed he took the ball out of the ruck and kicked it himself more this week too. Didn't take many marks, although I recall one really strong pack mark, but provided a contest more often than not.

Not sure how we fit Grundy, Cox and Witts in the one team, but I sense Witts is on the verge of a break out year (possibly 2017). I hope we hang onto him, but if Witts can continue strong form and positive development in the twos even without AFL performances his trade value will increase.

 

[jackcass]

Varcoe missed 2 relatively easy goals this week.

Yep, and White as well, they all do it.

 

[Apex36]

Witts is suddenly getting a lot more of the ball. I'd love to see him get a go in the seniors, but it would have to be at the expense of Grundy at this point.

 

[TradeDraft]

I must be watching different games than you Dave, I was sure I watched Moore miss a relatively easy shot Saturday, I though Varcoe ran into an open goal and sprayed it, week before I thought DeGoey and Treloar sprayed a few between them.

Moore has kicked 12.4 from Set Shots this Season. Cloke would never get that Close

 

[TradeDraft]

Witts is suddenly getting a lot more of the ball. I'd love to see him get a go in the seniors, but it would have to be at the expense of Grundy at this point.

And at the Moment I can't see that Happening

 

[Gone Critical]

Here's my view based on goalkicking output alone at the moment:

Moore is likely to kick 5 goals in a VFL game but 1-2 in an AFL game.

Cloke is likely to kick 1-3 goals in a VFL game but 2-3 goals in an AFL game.

Cloke to play roaming high-half-forward this week to stretch the undermanned and undersized Bulldogs defence. Mason Cox to play deep to further stretch the undermanned and undersized Bulldogs defence. IMHO.

Agree with all bar Moores VFL output.

In TAC,VFL and AFL he has remained a low possession player who deals quality. Part of why I think he may benefit from some VFL games is to start to learn to increase his numbers and stay involved in a game. Become the focal point of a forward line rather than drift in and out with high quality cameos.

Look at his contempories who are maybe a little older. Cameron, Hogan, Danniher. When the ball enters their forwardline they are always looking to be involved, looking to present as the main target. Moore does beautiful things but more drifts into contests rather than demanding involvement. That's what I want him to start developing

 

[AmellyPies]

Witts is suddenly getting a lot more of the ball. I'd love to see him get a go in the seniors, but it would have to be at the expense of Grundy at this point.

If Witts gets better at ground level, I can see him pushing Grundy out soon. The tap work from Witts is better.

 

[sr36]

Problem for Cloke is he's no good running back towards goal where 50% of goals are kicked these days. His style is out of date. You need to talls with pace or they're pretty useless.

Before 2012, Cloke used to play as a true CHF who sprinted up and back all day. He used to get most of his goals running back rather than leading out.

 

[TradeDraft]

Agree with all bar Moores VFL output.

In TAC,VFL and AFL he has remained a low possession player who deals quality. Part of why I think he may benefit from some VFL games is to start to learn to increase his numbers and stay involved in a game. Become the focal point of a forward line rather than drift in and out with high quality cameos.

Look at his contempories who are maybe a little older. Cameron, Hogan, Danniher. When the ball enters their forwardline they are always looking to be involved, looking to present as the main target. Moore does beautiful things but more drifts into contests rather than demanding involvement. That's what I want him to start developing

Moore has lot more Help then Hogan and Daniher has so they have to get Involved a lot more and Cameron is about 5 years Older

 

[Gone Critical]

Moore has lot more Help then Hogan and Daniher has so they have to get Involved a lot more and Cameron is about 5 years Older

Whether they have to get involved or not they do it and do it well. Its something Moore needs to develop, VFL would help in that regard.

Cameron is 2 yrs and 10 months older. When he was the same age as Moore is now he kicked 62 goals and was AA. He had already become the main man. This isn't a knock on Moore just an opinion of an area he needs to work on.

 

[AmellyPies]

Whether they have to get involved or not they do it and do it well. Its something Moore needs to develop, VFL would help in that regard.

Cameron is 2 yrs and 10 months older. When he was the same age as Moore is now he kicked 62 goals and was AA. He had already become the main man. This isn't a knock on Moore just an opinion of an area he needs to work on.

No.

 

[jackcass]

Moore has kicked 12.4 from Set Shots this Season. Cloke would never get that Close

Your missing the point Dave. All players spray shots on goal.

First nine games last year Cloke kicked 19-15, went on to kick 34-23 for the season across 17 games. Are we as a team better off having a KPF kick 19-15 in 9 games or kick 12-4? Moore in 18 games has kicked 21-7. As a team are we better off having a KPF kick 34 goals or 21?

 

[jackcass]

No.

Spare no effort providing an alternate view, I like that.

I agree with GC. Moore would benefit enormously from going back to the VFL racking up a few 15+ possession high work rate games. He puts the work in and we've seen the goals will come. He'll continue to develop at senior level but nothing wrong with speeding the process up.

 

[Bad Horse]

One thing that has surprised me in recent games and in a good way (pun intended).

Goodyear has gone to a whole new level. If he can keep that up, he will be getting more games before long. Really adding to all aspects of his game at once, has really shocked me to be honest.

 

[35Daicos]

Spare no effort providing an alternate view, I like that.

I agree with GC. Moore would benefit enormously from going back to the VFL racking up a few 15+ possession high work rate games. He puts the work in and we've seen the goals will come.

I should add that 'Like' was predominantly for the first part of your post (I'm assuming you were being sarcastic)!

I'm not in favour of dropping Moore at all, I can't see it happening any time soon, but many of the recent posts (GC and yours) do make a lot of sense. What I really am in favour of is getting Cloke back into the team immediately, I didn't want him out of it in the first place, so somebody needs to make way.

 

[jackcass]

One thing that has surprised me in recent games and in a good way (pun intended).

Goodyear has gone to a whole new level. If he can keep that up, he will be getting more games before long. Really adding to all aspects of his game at once, has really shocked me to be honest.

Agree. Started the last couple of VFL games last season when he was let off the leash.

 

[jackcass]

I should add that 'Like' was predominantly for the first part of your post (I'm assuming you were being sarcastic)!

I'm not in favour of dropping Moore at all, I can't see it happening any time soon, but many of the recent posts (GC and yours) do make a lot of sense. What I really am in favour of is getting Cloke back into the team immediately, I didn't want him out of it in the first place, so somebody needs to make way.

I don't necessarily think we should or will be dropping Moore either, just saying that I don't think it would hurt his development. Would also help manage his work load a bit this season.

 

[Apex36]

One thing that has surprised me in recent games and in a good way (pun intended).

Goodyear has gone to a whole new level. If he can keep that up, he will be getting more games before long. Really adding to all aspects of his game at once, has really shocked me to be honest.

I think I mentioned quite a few times in the offseason that Goody would surprise many this year.

 

[Bad Horse]

You are a good judge Apex. Extra sugarcubes for you.

 

[TradeDraft]

Whether they have to get involved or not they do it and do it well. Its something Moore needs to develop, VFL would help in that regard.

Cameron is 2 yrs and 10 months older. When he was the same age as Moore is now he kicked 62 goals and was AA. He had already become the main man. This isn't a knock on Moore just an opinion of an area he needs to work on.

So you say some people expect too much of Moore at the Moment?

Who know what Numbers Moore be putting up 2-3 Goals

 

[MagpieBat]

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/2016-05-23/vfl-six-of-the-best

 

[Jasper84]

Your missing the point Dave. All players spray shots on goal.

First nine games last year Cloke kicked 19-15, went on to kick 34-23 for the season across 17 games. Are we as a team better off having a KPF kick 19-15 in 9 games or kick 12-4? Moore in 18 games has kicked 21-7. As a team are we better off having a KPF kick 34 goals or 21?

I've mentioned this before, but the answer to question is not as simple as it seems. From your statistics, Cloke's kicks 7 goals more than Moore. He gifts the opposition possession 11 more times (not including OOF). Cloke gives away free kicks Darcy doesn't meaning more turnovers. Cloke plants himself and wrestles letting the third man intercept more than Darcy. So the question is would you rather a forward who kicks 7 goals more but gives the opposition possession 20 times more?

 

[jackcass]

I've mentioned this before, but the answer to question is not as simple as it seems. From your statistics, Cloke's kicks 7 goals more than Moore. He gifts the opposition possession 11 more times (not including OOF). Cloke gives away free kicks Darcy doesn't meaning more turnovers. Cloke plants himself and wrestles letting the third man intercept more than Darcy. So the question is would you rather a forward who kicks 7 goals more but gives the opposition possession 20 times more?

Good points but your premise ignores the fact that if Moore isn't getting it (and he's not all that often) then it's coming out anyway, just from a F50 turnover instead of (as you suggest) a point or an OOF.

 

[Mateyman]

Problem for Cloke is he's no good running back towards goal where 50% of goals are kicked these days. His style is out of date. You need to talls with pace or they're pretty useless.

Tom Hawkins disagrees

 

[35Daicos]

Tom Hawkins disagrees

Mason Cox seems to be going okay as well, but from what we saw of him in his 'famous run' the other day he's not terribly quick either!!