Rumour Rumors of cat player in big trouble

[TheEscapeClub]

Find it interesting that it says he applied for the suppression order. So not really about the victim, just wanting to protect himself.

Possibly with good reason too after reading this story.

 

[catters_28]

Jesus christ this is going to get ugly

 

[Biscut]

Young blokes paid for sex. Been going on forever and will continue. The issue will be around consent, and if, she was in a position to give it due to her alleged level of intoxication.


If it’s correct as written, PRESUMING she was able to give consent she’s looking for a payday because she knows he’s cashed up. Seems to be a small issue of her admitting it was consensual.

 

[joe444]

Oh gawd.

Rather think of other things today, but have been prepared all along for him to be delisted and dealt with as is appropriate for a criminal.

And now the nightmare scenario that, for all the seedy behaviour, we have that one in a million possibility where the evidence is powerfully suggesting innocence (as opposed to utter sleaziness).

Sheesh.

 

[BomberManU]

Who were the witnesses to her being intoxicated - presumably staff etc, at the club? Same for her being 'forced' into the car - was this witnessed by independent individuals, or only her friend?
And just to clarify - the 'circle of friends' who met her in the club and were messaging about it later, were they actually her friends or just a group who happened to meet her that night, but don't actually know her?
My default position is to believe the complainant, making these stories up is extremely rare, in my opinion.

 

[dmark]

Oh gawd.

Rather think of other things today, but have been prepared all along for him to be delisted and dealt with as is appropriate for a criminal.

And now the nightmare scenario that, for all the seedy behaviour, we have that one in a million possibility where the evidence is powerfully suggesting innocence (as opposed to utter sleaziness).

Sheesh.

What evidence?

 

[joe444]

What evidence?

(Geelong Advertiser, yesterday)

 

[cats_09]

If anyone wants to read the article from news.com.au, it gives some slightly different details to what's in the Geelong Addy article, including going into more detail from the alleged victims friend

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/geelong-rape-case-involving-highprofile-man-stood-down-for-witness-to-receive-legal-advice/news-story/c98acddf19769b4526c0932102888686

 

[dmark]

View attachment 2430088
(Geelong Advertiser, yesterday)

How convenient, snap chat hey, so actually no evidence again what evidence?

 

[webbo_83]

The friend sounds like one of those blokes who desperately wanted to bang her himself.

The bit that got me was that she was 'coaxed' into the car, but then was the one in the driver's seat when it drove off. Weird.

I don't think anyone wins from this, but for the girls sake I hope she wasn't r*ped because all the circumstantial evidence is not sounding good for her at this very early stage.

 

[cats_09]

The friend sounds like one of those blokes who desperately wanted to bang her himself.

The bit that got me was that she was 'coaxed' into the car, but then was the one in the driver's seat when it drove off. Weird.

I don't think anyone wins from this, but for the girls sake I hope she wasn't r*ped because all the circumstantial evidence is not sounding good for her at this very early stage.

That stood out to be between the two articles - in one the situation is described as her being "forced" & "coaxed" but the other article says she drove her car away from the club and then drove the two guys to a house

The friend also talks about the two guys getting into an argument with security at the club, before he was then assaulted "out of CCTV range", with it then reported that the two guys are on CCTV footage the whole time. If there was an assault, I would have thought that would have been pretty quick to make the news and something easy to be reported to the police


The whole thing sounds messy, and no matter what happens from here with just this committal hearing (let alone if it goes further), it's going to leave a mark on all involved

 

[the big lebowski]

One of the big questions is was she actually drunk? Regardless of whether she was paid or not or said yes at the time, if she was drunk she's not in a position to legally consent to sex.

I’m not sure that’s correct

I watched the Brittany Higgins judgement and the judge said the accused must think they have consent

A passed out women can’t provide consent. So it’s not reasonable to assume you have consent. A drunk person can provide consent. They do thousands of times every weekend.

No doubt the level of intoxication can cause grey areas.

 

[Willo_]

The friend sounds like one of those blokes who desperately wanted to bang her himself.

The bit that got me was that she was 'coaxed' into the car, but then was the one in the driver's seat when it drove off. Weird.

I don't think anyone wins from this, but for the girls sake I hope she wasn't r*ped because all the circumstantial evidence is not sounding good for her at this very early stage.

I thought that as well from the way it comes across, someone stuck in the friendzone who really wants more... but then
I thought maybe I am just also impartial being a Cats fan and my mind has just framed it in a way that looks better for the accused.

Regardless the whole thing sounds like a mess, I also hope like **** she wasn't r*ped, but I also hoped that it isn't her trying to extort people and then tarring them with the brush as well that will carry with them and ruin a chunk of their lives if they did no wrong.

I have little to no legal expertise, but it feels like it will be hard to convict based on what has come out, but obviously I hope if they did do wrong they are found guilty and punished accordingly, but I have no idea what way it is going to go and obviously what actually happened at this stage


I am doing my best to not look at it through footy club supporter eyes FWIW, if "the accused" did in fact assault the girl then I obviously want him to face the full consequences for his actions

 

[Jim Cricket]

I’m not sure that’s correct

I watched the Brittany Higgins judgement and the judge said the accused must think they have consent

A passed out women can’t provide consent. So it’s not reasonable to assume you have consent. A drunk person can provide consent. They do thousands of times every weekend.

No doubt the level of intoxication can cause grey areas.

Alcohol and consent - Alcohol and Drug Foundation

Understand alcohol's critical impact on sexual consent and capacity. Learn about intoxication levels, consent reversibility, and safer approaches.

adf.org.au

"In current Victorian law, a person is not considered capable of giving consent if: “the person is so affected by alcohol or another drug as to be incapable of consenting to the act.”"

Just because someone doesn't make a complaint doesn't mean they can't, and charges brought.

 

[the big lebowski]

Alcohol and consent - Alcohol and Drug Foundation

Understand alcohol's critical impact on sexual consent and capacity. Learn about intoxication levels, consent reversibility, and safer approaches.

adf.org.au

"In current Victorian law, a person is not considered capable of giving consent if: “the person is so affected by alcohol or another drug as to be incapable of consenting to the act.”"

Just because someone doesn't make a complaint doesn't mean they can't, and charges brought.

As I said, it’s a grey area

“So affected by alcohol”

Being drunk doesn’t mean you can’t give consent. Being so drunk that you can’t speak or understand what is happening obviously means you can’t give consent

 

[iameviljez]

Alcohol and consent - Alcohol and Drug Foundation

Understand alcohol's critical impact on sexual consent and capacity. Learn about intoxication levels, consent reversibility, and safer approaches.

adf.org.au

"In current Victorian law, a person is not considered capable of giving consent if: “the person is so affected by alcohol or another drug as to be incapable of consenting to the act.”"

Just because someone doesn't make a complaint doesn't mean they can't, and charges brought.

As I said, it’s a grey area

“So affected by alcohol”

Being drunk doesn’t mean you can’t give consent. Being so drunk that you can’t speak or understand what is happening obviously means you can’t give consent

Precisely correct.

If my wife and I have a few cocktails and decide to (shock, horror) have sex, then it's not an illegal act.

There is a difference between being drunk, and being drunk enough that (a) you do not understand what is happening, or (b) you do not possess sufficient self-control to be able to communicate consent, even if you do intend to consent.

That's different to losing your inhibitions because you have had a few drinks, and therefore consenting to something that you may have been more hesitant about when you were sober.

 

[iameviljez]

Jesus christ this is going to get ugly

This was precisely my first thought on reading yesterday's article, too.

This is going to bring in all of the tropes about sex work, about alcohol, about footballer fame, about pretty much everything you do not want to be brought into a conversation like this.

 

[callmeX]

But she was not drunk enough to drive a car to their house and back home. No crash.

But to all the story tellers she was way way too drunk

 

[the big lebowski]

Precisely correct.

If my wife and I have a few cocktails and decide to (shock, horror) have sex, then it's not an illegal act.

There is a difference between being drunk, and being drunk enough that (a) you do not understand what is happening, or (b) you do not possess sufficient self-control to be able to communicate consent, even if you do intend to consent.

That's different to losing your inhibitions because you have had a few drinks, and therefore consenting to something that you may have been more hesitant about when you were sober.

And to be clear I’m not making comment on this case. I have no idea what happened.

Just clearing up what someone said earlier about being unable to provide consent when you’re “drunk”

 

[iameviljez]

I reckon this thread is going to become a bit of a Rorschach test - where the conclusions you reach, say more about your own biases than any real reflection of what actually happened in this case.

 

[thegerman]

As I said, it’s a grey area

“So affected by alcohol”

Being drunk doesn’t mean you can’t give consent. Being so drunk that you can’t speak or understand what is happening obviously means you can’t give consent

Given she drove, whilst you can be drunk driving, I think that maybe a point to discuss in court.

 

[Willo_]

But she was not drunk enough to drive a car to their house and back home. No crash.

But to all the story tellers she was way way too drunk

I am not sure that first point is relevant to the 2nd to be honest, not something I am proud of by 20+ years ago when i was young and stupid I drove home absolutely smashed once or twice, and got home safe and sound on those occasions.

Behavior I am obviously not proud of and I was a young 21 year old know it all idiot and very fortunate that I didn't hit and kill anyone else, but someone can be very drunk AND still be able to navigate their way home... I don't think that automatically discredits her version of events

 

[Hamingja]

I thought that as well from the way it comes across, someone stuck in the friendzone who really wants more...

I read a couple of the articles and the whole series of events didn't make a lot of sense to me unless you look at the relationship between the friend and the alleged victim very differently.

 

[iameviljez]

Given she drove, whilst you can be drunk driving, I think that maybe a point to discuss in court.

There are a few points around it - like drink driving, latency period, more consumption potentially post-driving.

 

[Biscut]

Be interesting to see what the police report detailed in relation to her level of intoxication when they spoke to her at 6am. Just a couple hours after the alleged assault.