Current Rye bashing resulting in tragic death *Man Charged*

[Hard_to_Beat]

Cool wall of text

The kid has only himself to blame, hardly society fault he CHOSE to be a violent dickhead. Myself abd many other had had poor upbringing/bad role models and haven't turned into violent wannabe thug like this kid.

And he won't spend the rest of his days in a cell, he will a maximum of 3 years with good behaviour bond as the courts theses days hardly go hard on violent incidents like this one.

Bullshit

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I do wonder at times if there's value in allowing these type of crimes to be considered murder. I mean if we're dealing with an offender who was actively looking to belt somebody as it appears this was. Would require a change in law I assume. I wonder if it would make a difference.

If guilty he should get the appropriate sentence. Following this I would hope that if he's at all appropriate he's out in schools standing in front of crowds of kids and telling them he killed an innocent man for a bit of fun. When we were young the only messages we ever got of any worth on social issues were from former dickheads who had ****ed up. You can have as many normal people or "role models" as you like telling young blokes not to drink or fight, it's never worked and it never will. If anything it has the opposite effect as the very appeal of this behavior for the young male is in its rebelliousness.

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

I do wonder at times if there's value in allowing these type of crimes to be considered murder. I mean if we're dealing with an offender who was actively looking to belt somebody as it appears this was. Would require a change in law I assume. I wonder if it would make a difference.

If guilty he should get the appropriate sentence. Following this I would hope that if he's at all appropriate he's out in schools standing in front of crowds of kids and telling them he killed an innocent man for a bit of fun. When we were young the only messages we ever got of any worth on social issues were from former dickheads who had screwed up. You can have as many normal people or "role models" as you like telling young blokes not to drink or fight, it's never worked and it never will. If anything it has the opposite effect as the very appeal of this behavior for the young male is in its rebelliousness.

Not sure that this made any impact on a lot of my peers in high school, we had some broken old obese idiot come in to our class and tell us about his "troubled" days injecting heroin inbetween his toes and snorting so many lines of speed that his nasal bones had begun to dissolve - only for him to recant his entire message after the session was done and informally tell a group of us how much fun he had when he was young, crap health and poor criminal record be damned.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Yeah well obviously you don't just send any dickhead into the school. They'd need to actually be remorseful and willing to do it. I'd like to think killing somebody unprovoked isn't something anybody would look back on with pleasure. If so then they probably shouldn't be out in the first place.

 

[CAS79]

Yeah well obviously you don't just send any dickhead into the school. They'd need to actually be remorseful and willing to do it. I'd like to think killing somebody unprovoked isn't something anybody would look back on with pleasure. If so then they probably shouldn't be out in the first place.

Bunk can we quote you, your in support of a selective dickhead in schools policy?

 

[Mister Carlton]

Spent NYE in Rye once it was just screwed up, everyone standing around with no where to go so get pissed and agro, every couple of years someone gets down on NYE down that way and it's just likely to be random. Rye's a nice place but not on NYE.

Lots of people under the influence of drugs and alcohol.

Had a meal the previous night at the pizza shop where he was hit, ended up being followed by someone threatening to bash me and three girls I was with.

 

[vealesy]

Not sure that this made any impact on a lot of my peers in high school, we had some broken old obese idiot come in to our class and tell us about his "troubled" days injecting heroin inbetween his toes and snorting so many lines of speed that his nasal bones had begun to dissolve - only for him to recant his entire message after the session was done and informally tell a group of us how much fun he had when he was young, crap health and poor criminal record be damned.

Well of course he had fun.

He didnt inject heroin because it felt s**t and he wanted to end up touring schools and mind ******* kids.

 

[Jade's]

Australia was founded on crime - sure there were a number of convicts who were sent here for spurious reasons (eg: stealing a loaf of bread to feed starving family etc.) but there were also no doubt a number of murderers, thugs and rapists who for various reasons managed to escape the gallows for crimes more serious than the ones they were shipped out here for. How do you expect to shift 220+ years of sympathy for scumbags when it is so ingrained into our psyche? We are still enamoured with the Ned Kelly story, the Squizzy Taylor story and they're what? 80-100+ years ago? Our culture even still champions "tall poppy syndrome" when it seems like one of the hoi polloi gets an idea that they are above their station, which can be translated as "MAAAAATE YOUR (sic) JUST A PIECE OF s**t LIKE THE REST OF US DONT (sic) GET TO (sic) BIG FOR YER BRITCHES". This Dylan Closter kid is just another product of that same old s**t.

Cultural change will only happen when it comes from somewhere external to descendants of "old" Anglo-Australia.

This is one of if not the biggest load of s**t i have ever read on this site including visits to the Essendon and Norf boards. Culturally Australia and particularly anglo-Australians are very peaceful. One only needs to look at the over-representation of Aboriginal, Somalian, Maouri, Sudanese and Italian / Greek populations in our prison systems to work this out.

Only cultural issue Australia has which contributes to these sort of things is the courts going easy on trying to weed out and severly punish the few dickheads who are almost always smashed off their heads or high as a kite and lock them away for a substantial period of time

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

This is one of if not the biggest load of s**t i have ever read on this site including visits to the Essendon and Norf boards. Culturally Australia and particularly anglo-Australians are very peaceful. One only needs to look at the over-representation of Aboriginal, Somalian, Maouri, Sudanese and Italian / Greek populations in our prison systems to work this out.

Only cultural issue Australia has which contributes to these sort of things is the courts going easy on trying to weed out and severly punish the few dickheads who are almost always smashed off their heads or high as a kite and lock them away for a substantial period of time

You can act like street violence and crime didn't exist prior to the post-war immigration boom, but you'd be wrong. You can act like Australia's love affair with binge drinking only began 30 years ago, again you'd be wrong. My reply was to Hard_to_beat's call for cultural change - it won't happen because of responses like yours.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

You can act like street violence and crime didn't exist prior to the post-war immigration boom, but you'd be wrong. You can act like Australia's love affair with binge drinking only began 30 years ago, again you'd be wrong. My reply was to Hard_to_beat's call for cultural change - it won't happen because of responses like yours.

If anything violence has gone down since the time when a large percentage of the country spent hours in the pub.

Domestic violence has certainly been curtailed.

In the same period, the sensationalism of violence has gone through the stratosphere. What we are seeing is a reaction to this.

 

[vealesy]

Maybe it isnt culture.

Maybe its just human nature.

 

[CAS79]

From Grizz's guidlines

This board is not for - philosophical questions arising from crimes i.e. sentencing, justice, why these people should fry etc. Go to SRP for this.

No trouble with you guys discussing a motive, a cause, even a cause in relation to this case with correlation, but it’s stepping into a philosophical debate and a broad issue as to crime cause in genral and era's, can we keep it in relation to the topic and not a broader society wide philosophical issue. Thanks.

 

[Paul Kersey]

We had some galah from the God Squad come to our school. And Mark Zanotti.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

This warrants closer scrutiny:

'that's what we're here for'

This is clearly a response.

Can anyone confirm or deny if this statement was not in response to an inflammatory comment such as, "what are you dick heads doing here?"

 

[Bunk Moreland]

This warrants closer scrutiny:




This is clearly a response.

Can anyone confirm or deny if this statement was not in response to an inflammatory comment such as, "what are you dick heads doing here?"

I think it’s fair to try to ascertain the accuracy of the “that’s what we’re here for” quote and the context in which it was said. After all, it’s what has already convicted and sentenced the accused in the eyes of the public.

But you can’t really try to swing it the other way. Two wrongs don’t make a right. It’s not “clearly a response”, nobody except those there know the context in which it was said.

 

[Daytripper]

I think it’s fair to try to ascertain the accuracy of the “that’s what we’re here for” quote and the context in which it was said. After all, it’s what has already convicted and sentenced the accused in the eyes of the public.

There is CCTV footage, there have been statements made by others at the scene, it has been widely reported how it all started, his lawyer has not disputed any of the facts presented - no offense but do people need a picture drawn for them these days.

 

[JuddsABlue]

Third WA man charged and released on bail according to the hun

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

I think it’s fair to try to ascertain the accuracy of the “that’s what we’re here for” quote and the context in which it was said. After all, it’s what has already convicted and sentenced the accused in the eyes of the public.

But you can’t really try to swing it the other way. Two wrongs don’t make a right. It’s not “clearly a response”, nobody except those there know the context in which it was said.

Thanks Bunk and bravo for not immediately resorting to the cultivated emotional response.

I'm not in any way attempting to justify the perpetrators actions, I am just asking for level headed debate whilst encouraging a greater scrutiny of the engineered hysteria of the tabloid media.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

There is CCTV footage, there have been statements made by others at the scene, it has been widely reported how it all started, his lawyer has not disputed any of the facts presented - no offense but do people need a picture drawn for them these days.

It’s how it’s been reported, yes. But if you think the media wouldn’t take a potentially inflammatory statement out of context for their own purposes, then you’ve got another thing coming.

It may have been said exactly the way it’s been reported, we won’t know until the trial.

 

[Daytripper]

It’s how it’s been reported, yes. But if you think the media wouldn’t take a potentially inflammatory statement out of context for their own purposes, then you’ve got another thing coming.

It may have been said exactly the way it’s been reported, we won’t know until the trial.

Its been reported in exactly the same fashion across all the media outlets - from News Ltd, to Fairfax, to the commercial news networks and to the ABC and SBS. Most telling though is that the boys lawyer has not even tried to argue any sort of provocation defense - or is he in on it too?

There is no giant conspiracy here. It is what it is.

It's tiresome reading the same 'blame the meedja' shite all the time.
Sure its difficult to understand how incidents like this happen - but don't go blaming the victim or the 'meedja' for it.

 

[dymot]

I don't "honestly" know, but experience has taught me to avoid the tabloid media if I do want to "honestly" know all the relative facts.



I'm not claiming that he shouldn't be punished, I claimed that if faced with a choice in utilising resources, I would choose to invest in avoiding a repeat scenario. Our culture played a role in what that kid did, but somehow this never seems to get addressed.

I'd assume that he is a very impressionable young dick head who has been influenced by the distorted flippant attitude to violence (Hello, Underbelly!) displayed in the same media outlets that are now selling advertising off the back off sensationalising this tragedy. I have little doubt that he set out to chin someone on the basis of appearing as a hard man in front of his mates and is now shattered by the immense pain he has now brought in to the lives of others, including his own family, the harsh reality of spending the golden years of his youth in a 10 x 10 concrete cell, and the rest of his life with the haunting face of a dead man on his conscience.

All media is biased. Even the supposed free press that left wing parties like those at occupy were craving is distorted in what they report.

I got the impression in society that violence is not tolerated and punishment will be given if I inflict it.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

Its been reported in exactly the same fashion across all the media outlets - from News Ltd, to Fairfax, to the commercial news networks and to the ABC and SBS.

Most telling though is that the boys lawyer has not even tried to argue any sort of provocation defense - or is he in on it too?

You will not find a defence lawyer on the planet that will discuss a clients position without a brief of evidence having been made available by the prosecution.

A 14 year old legal studies student would know this.

You embarrass yourself with your ignorance yet again.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Its been reported in exactly the same fashion across all the media outlets - from News Ltd, to Fairfax, to the commercial news networks and to the ABC and SBS. Most telling though is that the boys lawyer has not even tried to argue any sort of provocation defense - or is he in on it too?

There is no giant conspiracy here. It is what it is.

It's tiresome reading the same 'blame the meedja' shite all the time.
Sure its difficult to understand how incidents like this happen - but don't go blaming the victim or the 'meedja' for it.

Try reading my posts, I’m referring strictly to the alleged five word quote by the offender, and in the context in which it was said.

I’m not commenting on the assault itself, nor for one second suggesting there was any type of provocation involved.

My post was actually calling out Hard_to_Beat on what he said.

 

[dymot]

You will not find a defence lawyer on the planet that will discuss a clients position without a brief of evidence having been made available by the prosecution.

A 14 year old legal studies student would know this.

You embarrass yourself with your ignorance yet again.

LOL at you using an unrelated video to supposedly justify your claims. Further it is not even Australian. Actually refute the matter in front of you if you disagree.

I know plenty of solicitors that will discuss their client's situation without the brief of evidence. In fact they have to in order to explain what they have been arrested for and what will happen to them next. Further the solicitor will discuss the prosecution's claims for bail and what might happen to them in this regard. All is done often before the brief of evidence is prepared to a sufficient standard.

 

[Daytripper]

LOL at you using an unrelated video to supposedly justify your claims. Further it is not even Australian. Actually refute the matter in front of you if you disagree.

I know plenty of solicitors that will discuss their client's situation without the brief of evidence. In fact they have to in order to explain what they have been arrested for and what will happen to them next. Further the solicitor will discuss the prosecution's claims for bail and what might happen to them in this regard. All is done often before the brief of evidence is prepared to a sufficient standard.

Pathetic joke isn't he - poor kid has been watching too much Law and Order.

Evidence briefs are sometimes only available weeks even months afterwards - so according to Old Skool defense lawyers can basically do bugger all for their clients in the interim period.