Samantha Murphy Ballarat * Patrick Orren Stephenson Charged With Murder

[Kurve]

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The Murder of Rebecca Young - Ballarat

The Murder of Hannah McGuire - Ballarat * Lachie Young

17

Lachie Young

Age

25

Ht

189cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.5

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

220.3

3star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.5

2star

HB

3.5

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.0

3star

MG

210.0

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

219.6

4star

charged



Allegedly

 

[Run n Spread]

Sounds like you have about as much if not more circumstantial evidence on this guy than the Ballarat police have on POS.
Why not at least ring CrimeStoppers? You can do so anonymously. If he is definitely from Ballarat and has a Vic registered vehicle they can probably check him out very quickly and easily.

Yeah if this is genuine sounds as suspicious as.
I'm not saying police should give details of investigation but if they say something we believe a vehicle was involved in the death/no vehicle than tips like this can be followed up/discounted.
By staying silent AND than saying we need more time/appeals means to me the case is not iron clad.
That's why I disagreed with the 24 week extension. You have the evidence or you donr

 

[31550]

I'm not saying police should give details of investigation but if they say something we believe a vehicle was involved in the death/no vehicle than tips like this can be followed up/discounted.

At this stage of the SM case the police have not indicated one way or another that a vehicle was involved in SM's death. Why all the focus on vehicles / damage etc? A large proportion of vehicles are being driven around with some sort of damage (there are long waiting lists for claim settlements and panel-beating). Not all of the drivers or owners are murderers. We really know nothing at all about the circumstances of SM's death. A vehicle may or may not be involved. Damage to a random vehicle is not really a huge clue in solving the case at this stage.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Can the coppers do a quick DNA analysis of his car if it is in a public place without a warrant? Or even quickly analyse the damage on the vehicle when parked in a public play to determine if its consistent with a person being struck by the car.

No. Unlawful. If they did find something it would be inadmissible.

 

[Run n Spread]

At this stage of the SM case the police have not indicated one way or another that a vehicle was involved in SM's death. Why all the focus on vehicles / damage etc? A large proportion of vehicles are being driven around with some sort of damage (there are long waiting lists for claim settlements and panel-beating). Not all of the drivers or owners are murderers. We really know nothing at all about the circumstances of SM's death. A vehicle may or may not be involved. Damage to a random vehicle is not really a huge clue in solving the case at this stage.

It's not the only theory. Reddits most popular was it was a SA and POS has a bad history with women. I guess people speculate in the absence of details.
A vehicle would have been involved to.move the body at a minimum.
This whole case thou is now giving weird(er) vibes.
So.police alledge she was killed at Mt Clear some time between 7-12.
Than nothing zilch until a 5pm phone ping that am.not sure has been formally confirmed?
So minimum someone has been driving/in possession of SMs body and belonging for 5 hours.
While it's certainly no crime to drive off/get out of contact for 5 hours surely someone knows something

 

[Run n Spread]

Also at risk of being morbid dead bodies are bloody heavy. It's essentially dead leaden weight not like carrying a person where weight can be concentrated in areas
If Sam weighed say 60kg and was 165cm say that is a huge mass still to lift/drag/hide unassisted. While I've acknowledged the bush is huge and an unconcealed body would still be hard to find you'd still have to go off track a considerable distance and csrry/drag with you otherwise it would be found.
While it's possible to do it would need time and effort. (Lynn for example hidnthe 2 campers bodies under cover of darkness and had time in his favour and was still picked up and tracked round the area) This is a random Sunday with plenty of foot traffic on tracks and road traffic.

 

[jason_recliner]

... surely someone knows something

Yep, consistent with “I’m not going to identify what has specifically led us to this man other than to say it has come about from painstaking detective work with great assistance from the public.”

Prosecutors asked for 20 weeks to compile evidence to hand to the defence, due to there being "a significant amount of material" that needed to be analysed. Unlikely the court agreed to another 20 weeks in custody, no bail, without solid evidence against PoS.

 

[Run n Spread]

Yep, consistent with “I’m not going to identify what has specifically led us to this man other than to say it has come about from painstaking detective work with great assistance from the public.”

Prosecutors asked for 20 weeks to compile evidence to hand to the defence, due to there being "a significant amount of material" that needed to be analysed. Unlikely the court agreed to another 20 weeks in custody, no bail, without solid evidence against PoS.

But we don't know what the evidence is unless part of the hearing was sealed. They asked for 20 weeks to deliver the brief.
Matter of perspective
1. They must have something solid
2 Their case is thin and they need to analyse/re investigate to strengthen

 

[thumbs_up]

But we don't know what the evidence is unless part of the hearing was sealed. They asked for 20 weeks to deliver the brief.
Matter of perspective
1. They must have something solid
2 Their case is thin and they need to analyse/re investigate to strengthen

I believe that in the press conference after POS was charged with murder, there was a request for members of the public to come forward if they had any information. This request leads me to believe that the case is thin and they are looking for more evidence to corroborate what they already have.

 

[jason_recliner]

But we don't know what the evidence is unless part of the hearing was sealed. They asked for 20 weeks to deliver the brief.
Matter of perspective
1. They must have something solid
2 Their case is thin and they need to analyse/re investigate to strengthen

How long do you think they should have asked for? 20 weeks is less than 6 months, and most likely there is a lot of work to do. It's not like there were all these detectives and analysts and labs sitting around doing nothing, and then there's a murder and so now they've got something to keep them busy. It's additional work that must fit in around all the existing work everybody is doing. Think of it as a fairly substantial new study - how long do you think it should take a reasonably sized and highly professional team to deliver findings that are precise, accurate and certain beyond a reasonable doubt?

 

[thumbs_up]

Think of it as a fairly substantial new study - how long do you think it should take a reasonably sized and highly professional team to deliver a findings that are precise, accurate and certain beyond a reasonable doubt?

About 20 weeks.

 

[mrskafoops]

I’ve only been following this at a distance but I can’t help wonder if they’ve got it wrong. I know they’ve arrested this kid, and they probably have some very very strong circumstantial evidence because the Police wouldn’t lock someone up without good cause right?

But what happens if the reason this kid hasn’t divulged where the body is is because he genuinely doesn’t know?

What if there’s a person who no one would look at twice or who didn’t necessarily blend who left Ballarat literally within 2-3wks of the murder, suddenly? Who’s now in QLD and giving off vibes in their new workplace? Saying weird stuff to the women in the workplace and just giving off “ick” vibes? Who said they left “in a hurry because they’d had a fight with their girlfriend.” But is the type you’d find it hard to have a gf. Who’s asked if there’s any forests to go walking in? And a week or so later asks the girls in the workplace what they “carry on them for protection if they get attacked?”

What if my thoughts are completely wrong and this person has nothing to do with this and is just “off tap and socially awkward?” What if I get sacked by my boss for raising this with Crimestoppers and this person is completely innocent and just creepy and opinionated?

Is anyone here from Ballarat or worked at the Ballarat Hospital because that’s where this person used to work. I probably watch too much True Crime but he’s just weird and not your average weird Victorian weird. I don’t want to lose my job over this but what if……?

Heya,

Sometimes things are just as they seem. He might just be a socially awkward weirdo. Or he could be the one responsible, you never know, right? They had their sights set on Lance and were absolutely convinced he was the CSK, and we all know how that story played out.

I'll tell you a little about my story though. I met my ex and we had a relationship that moved pretty quick in the beginning. In hindsight I was manipulated and have never, ever encountered anyone that made me feel so bad about myself. He twisted things and there was gas-lighting. Took me about 5 attempts to leave the relationship. We had 2 kids together and it was one of the most difficult situations I have ever been in. This man is very socially awkward, can get jobs, can't hold them, has been pulled in to HR and taken to court too many times to remember. I left this guy in 2014 and my most recent VRO expired just last year. He is creepy, I have had a woman contact me, scared, because they thought he was stalking them (long story there).

My point is, he sounds like the guy you are working with. And just because someone is creepy af and a complete weirdo doesn't mean that they are capable of murder. Usually these guys take out their frustrations and animosity towards women behind their keyboards.

My ex hurt me physically, yes, and this guy you work with would probably too, but lashing out at a partner is very different to planning and executing what would have to have been a well planned murder.

Have you tried cyber-stalking him?? Finding out who his ex is?

 

[mrskafoops]

Sounds like you have about as much if not more circumstantial evidence on this guy than the Ballarat police have on POS.
Why not at least ring CrimeStoppers? You can do so anonymously. If he is definitely from Ballarat and has a Vic registered vehicle they can probably check him out very quickly and easily.

Do you have the rego of his car?? If you do send it through, I am curious.

 

[31550]

How long do you think they should have asked for? 20 weeks is less than 6 months, and most likely there is a lot of work to do. It's not like there were all these detectives and analysts and labs sitting around doing nothing, and then there's a murder and so now they've got something to keep them busy. It's additional work that must fit in around all the existing work everybody is doing. Think of it as a fairly substantial new study - how long do you think it should take a reasonably sized and highly professional team to deliver a findings that are precise, accurate and certain beyond a reasonable doubt?

To put this into perspective, police, prosecutors and the courts have a large and growing backlog of serious criminal cases to investigate, solve, and litigate. This case is just one of those.

I would be very surprised if the proposed August court dates for this case are not postponed or deferred at least once, if not several times before actually proceeding. It's not unusual for complex cases like this one to take years to come before the courts. 20 weeks is a drop in the ocean IMO.

 

[jason_recliner]

Re-watching the press conference now. He stresses that the investigation is ongoing and proceeding at "at a very heavy pace", and then next says "importantly, doing everything they can to locate Samantha's body for the family". And he then pleads for information from the public.

He says "it was a deliberate attack on Samantha... it was an intentional act... she was murdered on the day she went missing by this male"

No discussion of evidence - "in Victoria... the evidence is tested in court, not a press conference".

"... the recovery of Samantha is of primary importance to [Samantha's family]... that's why the focus of our investigators... will be going even harder to try and recover the body".

 

[31550]

Have you tried cyber-stalking him?? Finding out who his ex is?

I don't think we should be encouraging other forum members to commit crimes. Let the police do their job.

Do you have the rego of his car?? If you do send it through, I am curious.

You are asking the wrong person. This should be directed at MurderyStuff

 

[31550]

Re-watching the press conference now. He stresses that the investigation is ongoing and proceeding at "at a very heavy pace", and then next says "importantly, doing everything they can to locate Samantha's body for the family". And he then pleads for information from the public.

He says "it was a deliberate attack on Samantha... it was an intentional act... she was murdered on the day she went missing by this male"

No discussion of evidence - "in Victoria... the evidence is tested in court, not a press conference".

"... the recovery of Samantha is of primary importance to [Samantha's family]... that's why the focus of our investigators... will be going even harder to try and recover the body".

Yet here we are, weeks later, no further advanced.

 

[jason_recliner]

Yet here we are, weeks later, no further advanced.

The only inference that can be drawn is that they haven't been able to find the body.

 

[mrskafoops]

I'd be ringing and if that fails (crimestoppers would get 100s of tips) than reassess

Crime Stoppers seem to jump on this stuff pretty quickly. I contacted them about the Julie Cutler case and within days had a detective calling me.

 

[Run n Spread]

How long do you think they should have asked for? 20 weeks is less than 6 months, and most likely there is a lot of work to do. It's not like there were all these detectives and analysts and labs sitting around doing nothing, and then there's a murder and so now they've got something to keep them busy. It's additional work that must fit in around all the existing work everybody is doing. Think of it as a fairly substantial new study - how long do you think it should take a reasonably sized and highly professional team to deliver findings that are precise, accurate and certain beyond a reasonable doubt?

3 months. Ideally when you charge someone you have the evidence and it is about putting together said evidence into a brief.
Pre trial conferences than preliminaries run which enable strategies to be fine tuned.
Shouldn't be whack charges than get more time to investigate. (Although this case is unusual without a body).
It will actually be 2 years before this goes to trial and under presumption if a not guilt verdict is found you've locked an innocent person up for 2 years. He may also be actually innocent which can't be forgotten

 

[jason_recliner]

3 months.

OK, not sure what you're basing this on but it's only 7 weeks less than what they've asked for. Sounds entirely reasonable if they (and labs, consultants and other suppliers) have a heavy workload.

Shouldn't be whack charges than get more time to investigate.

They haven't asked for more time to investigate.

 

[Zidane98]

Also at risk of being morbid dead bodies are bloody heavy. It's essentially dead leaden weight not like carrying a person where weight can be concentrated in areas
If Sam weighed say 60kg and was 165cm say that is a huge mass still to lift/drag/hide unassisted. While I've acknowledged the bush is huge and an unconcealed body would still be hard to find you'd still have to go off track a considerable distance and csrry/drag with you otherwise it would be found.
While it's possible to do it would need time and effort. (Lynn for example hidnthe 2 campers bodies under cover of darkness and had time in his favour and was still picked up and tracked round the area) This is a random Sunday with plenty of foot traffic on tracks and road traffic.

The most likely scenario for me is whoever the killer was moved the body off track on the day to temporarily conceal SM and then returned on Sunday night to retrieve the body and hide it somewhere far far away that couldn't possibly be linked to the investigation.

 

[31550]

The most likely scenario for me is whoever the killer was moved the body off track on the day to temporarily conceal SM and then returned on Sunday night to retrieve the body and hide it somewhere far far away that couldn't possibly be linked to the investigation.

The alarm was raised at 11am. Friends and family knew her regular jogging route and being a Sunday and a public area, plenty of people were scouring that area for Samantha or signs of her throughput the day, and probably into the evening. It would have been very difficult for the alleged offender to hide her body in broad daylight, and then return at nighttime to remove it without being seen or detected by someone.

 

[Zidane98]

The alarm was raised at 11am. Friends and family knew her regular jogging route and being a Sunday and a public area, plenty of people were scouring that area for Samantha or signs of her throughput the day, and probably into the evening. It would have been very difficult for the alleged offender to hide her body in broad daylight, and then return at nighttime to remove it without being seen or detected by someone.

Searches didn't begin immediately did they? Plenty of ways to access the area.

 

[Run n Spread]

The most likely scenario for me is whoever the killer was moved the body off track on the day to temporarily conceal SM and then returned on Sunday night to retrieve the body and hide it somewhere far far away that couldn't possibly be linked to the investigation.

Maybe or they had help. I'm leaning to someone has come and helped or potentially more than one person involved.
But then who? Don't know about you bit how many people get a call and say yep I'll help no questions asked. So than your in a loop somehow he did it himself.
Even was said at the first press conference. Someone has to know something

 

[Run n Spread]

Searches didn't begin immediately did they? Plenty of ways to access the area.

Formally 24 hours. But if a family member went for a run and were missing for 2 hours say longer they are due for something. First thing I'm doing is ringing them and around than looking