Sarah Palin ? (Part 2)

[gandaal]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Nazis existed


Environmentalists existed

Some Nazis were environmentalists

Ergo all environmentalists are Nazis [errrr does not follow]

The Nazis banned smoking as well so are all anti smoking campaigners Nazis?

Within the passage I plucked out were quotes from Hitler and Mein Kampf. I think he had a fair amount of influence over NAZI policy.

Plus I never said that all NAZIs were environmentalists, just that environmentalists were big supporters of the NAZI party.

 

[bit_pattern]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Within the passage I plucked out were quotes from Hitler and Mein Kampf. I think he had a fair amount of influence over NAZI policy.

Plus I never said that all NAZIs were environmentalists, just that environmentalists were big supporters of the NAZI party.

And what does that have to do with socialism? Most socialists of that era were far from being environmentalists.

 

[gandaal]

Re: Sarah Palin?

And what does that have to do with socialism? Most socialists of that era were far from being environmentalists.

LOL! Got a source for this?

 

[bit_pattern]

Re: Sarah Palin?

LOL! Got a source for this?

Yup

2. *Why existing socialism has not been green* The green anarchists believe that bad values lead to bad social conditions. The capitalist values of the Wealth of Nations led to environmental destruction in the capitalist world. Marx's enthusiasm for growth and industry, as reflected in the more breathlessly ebullient sections of the Communist Manifesto, explains the polluted rivers and poisonous air of the former Soviet bloc. The greens believe that by returning to a value system like that of the American Indian, balance with nature will be restored. In their eyes, industrialization of either the capitalist or socialist variety is the enemy. Small, self-sufficient communities are the way forward.
http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/ecology/red_green.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-socialism

Now, what do your comments about environmentalism have to do with socialism?

 

[gandaal]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Yup

2. *Why existing socialism has not been green* The green anarchists believe that bad values lead to bad social conditions. The capitalist values of the Wealth of Nations led to environmental destruction in the capitalist world. Marx's enthusiasm for growth and industry, as reflected in the more breathlessly ebullient sections of the Communist Manifesto, explains the polluted rivers and poisonous air of the former Soviet bloc. The greens believe that by returning to a value system like that of the American Indian, balance with nature will be restored. In their eyes, industrialization of either the capitalist or socialist variety is the enemy. Small, self-sufficient communities are the way forward.
http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/ecology/red_green.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-socialism

Now, what do your comments about environmentalism have to do with socialism?

Firstly your confusing socialism with communism.

Secondly that article has nothing about the beliefs of pre-WWII German socialists.

 

[PaddleFoot]

Re: Sarah Palin?

... that environmentalists were big supporters of the NAZI party.

Of all the twaddle that consumed GBs of bandwidth on the Net, this would have to be No 1 with a bullet. The Nazis were genocidal maniacs who, in the space of 10 years, willfully obliterated entire cultures and almost destroyed European civilisation.

Get A Life.

 

[gandaal]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Of all the twaddle that consumed GBs of bandwidth on the Net, this would have to be No 1 with a bullet. The Nazis were genocidal maniacs who, in the space of 10 years, willfully obliterated entire cultures and almost destroyed European civilisation.

Get A Life.

Yes and many of them were environmentalists. That's not an inditement of environmentalists today, its just a historical fact.

Get A Clue.

 

[bit_pattern]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Yes and many of them were environmentalists. That's not an inditement of environmentalists today, its just a historical fact.

Get A Clue.

But what does environmentalism have to do with socialism? Still ducking the question I see.

As for your other post, if you don[t think the Comintern dominated pre-WW2 European socialism then you probably don[t know the first thing about the topic.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Bringing the thread back on topic for the moment, but the Australian is reporting that Palin is distancing herself from McCain in an attempt to boost her credentials in the Republican Party for a run at the presidency in 2012.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24542565-2703,00.html

 

[bit_pattern]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Bringing the thread back on topic for the moment, but the Australian is reporting that Palin is distancing herself from McCain in an attempt to boost her credentials in the Republican Party for a run at the presidency in 2012.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24542565-2703,00.html

Well, that would guarantee Obama a full 8 years! Go Sarah!

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Bringing the thread back on topic for the moment, but the Australian is reporting that Palin is distancing herself from McCain in an attempt to boost her credentials in the Republican Party for a run at the presidency in 2012.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24542565-2703,00.html

I thought Palin might be formidable in 2012 -- at first. But really, her performance has been far below what I expected. I thought she'd be evil but smart, superficially charming, and glib. In reality, she ain't knowledgable, starts flailing when she doesn't have an autocue, and isn't half as smart as I expected her to be.

While I expect she'll have some supporters, I think she's long odds to get the GOP nod in 2012. Remember, she got plucked from obscurity by McCain. She didn't have to survive a gruelling nomination campaign. There's no way she'd get away with dodging interviews or doing only one debate if she jumped into the primaries. I couldn't see how she'd get within a mile of the nomination if actually forced to run against the likes of Huckabee, Romney, Pawlenty, Jindal and co.

If you were calculating the odds right now, Huckabee would be the one to beat. He's a formidable politician and has just the charm and eloquence that McCain lacks (and the GOP thought they were getting with Palin).

 

[Juddism]

this is a gem..now she can't even call abortion clinic bombers, terrorists.

[YOUTUBE]5qty8kuS7Vo[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Refried Noodle]

That last sentence was the telling line.

"I would put in that category of Bill Ayers, anyone else who would seek to campaign to destroy our United States Capitol and our Pentagon and would seek to destroy innocent Americans"

Considering not 30 seconds earlier she doubted the suitability of the word 'terrorist' to describe abortion clinic bombers.
She obviously thinks that anyone in and abortion clinic is NOT an 'innocent American' as she puts it.

You can see she jumps an any chance to blast Bill Ayers, but she struggles to force words out of her mouth to denounce people that bomb abortion clinics.
Pro lifer eh?

Disgusting.

 

[FunkyFreo2]

That terrorist comment is staggering.

She is effectively saying, by not considering them terrorists, that it is ok to bomb civilians because you have strong religious beliefs of a fundamental nature that are offended by said civilians! And it is ok to bomb civilians to strike fear in to those who intend to use the services, and to force governments to change policies.

Erm isn't that the whole problem with suicide bombers?? Unless of course Palin thinks that you would hardly call the guys who flew in to buildings in 911 terrorists.

 

[DaveW]

Of course she's not going to offend them.

Anti-abortion terrorists are Palin's core constuency.

 

[Messenger]

Re: Sarah Palin?

I thought Palin might be formidable in 2012 -- at first. But really, her performance has been far below what I expected. I thought she'd be evil but smart, superficially charming, and glib. In reality, she ain't knowledgable, starts flailing when she doesn't have an autocue, and isn't half as smart as I expected her to be.

While I expect she'll have some supporters, I think she's long odds to get the GOP nod in 2012. Remember, she got plucked from obscurity by McCain. She didn't have to survive a gruelling nomination campaign. There's no way she'd get away with dodging interviews or doing only one debate if she jumped into the primaries. I couldn't see how she'd get within a mile of the nomination if actually forced to run against the likes of Huckabee, Romney, Pawlenty, Jindal and co.

If you were calculating the odds right now, Huckabee would be the one to beat. He's a formidable politician and has just the charm and eloquence that McCain lacks (and the GOP thought they were getting with Palin).

I'd agree on Huckabee, but Palin isn't done yet. I'd expect her to run in the GOP primary.

Palin's purpose was to capture the conservative base for whom McCain didn't resonate and try and pry loose some Hillary supporters. So she has done half of her job. The right wing nutties love her.

What the didn't count on was how badly she would do with the independents and moderates. Clearly small town politics and the twee "hockey mom" crap doesn't fly so well when you examine the way she has done business in Juneau. I also find it interesting that the "First Dude" has profited from working in one of the most heavily unionized industries in the US.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Re: Sarah Palin?

I'd agree on Huckabee, but Palin isn't done yet. I'd expect her to run in the GOP primary.

Palin's purpose was to capture the conservative base for whom McCain didn't resonate and try and pry loose some Hillary supporters. So she has done half of her job. The right wing nutties love her.

What the didn't count on was how badly she would do with the independents and moderates. Clearly small town politics and the twee "hockey mom" crap doesn't fly so well when you examine the way she has done business in Juneau. I also find it interesting that the "First Dude" has profited from working in one of the most heavily unionized industries in the US.

I think she might run too. I suspect she's had one eye on 2012 since it became clear that the hill was too steep to climb this cycle. And I don't doubt that at least a slice of the GOP electorate will support her fervently, as will some diehard boosters in the media.

But on what we've seen so far, she'd get eaten alive in the GOP primaries. I mean, this is a woman who has yet to give one fair-dinkum press conference, and who immediately sunk to the bottom when interviewed by Katie Couric (no one's idea of a take-no-prisoners journalist). Her handlers have been keeping her from the press right from the start -- and with good reason, the few interviews she has given have been disasters. Sure, she managed to paper over some of the cracks in her one debate performance -- where there were, in effect, no follow-up questions and Biden was on his most gentlemanly behaviour, and Palin ignored many of the questions wholesale -- but in primaries she'd have to participate in numerous debates with much less friendly formats against opponents who'd come after her with a lot more vigour than Biden did.

And I can't remember who said it, but you only get to introduce yourself once. And Palin's introduction to the electorate at large has been a brutal one. A helluva lot of remedial work needs to be done by her if she's gonna be a viable general-election candidate. I doubt she's got the wherewithal to pull it off.

In those circumstances, it's difficult to see how she'd beat the likes of Romney and Huckabee -- and probably a few others who'll be in the mix. Huckabee, in particular, is a very gifted performer. He's got four years now to finesse some of his more troubling positions, add depth in areas where he's shallow, and sweet-talk the GOP moneymen who'll have to finance his run; and unlike Palin I think he's got the native intelligence and charm and skill to do it.

One line of pro-Palin thinking is that the GOP have traditionally given the nomination to the person thought to be 'next in line'. Some people see this tradition working in Palin's favour. I think that's an odd way of looking at it. Palin didn't participate in the primaries. Not one vote was cast for her. She was parachuted in by McCain a few weeks before the election. IMO if you're trying to identify the 'next in line', it's either Romney or Huckabee -- subtract McCain from this year's primaries and one of those two would have won the nomination.

Not that it'd worry me if she did, miraculously, walk away with the nomination. I think it'd be an electoral catastrophe to have her at the top of the ticket -- though I'll be the first to admit that a lot can happen in four years.

 

[fairdinkum]

this is a gem..now she can't even call abortion clinic bombers, terrorists.

It never ends, does it?

 

[fairdinkum]

Re: Sarah Palin?

If you were calculating the odds right now, Huckabee would be the one to beat. He's a formidable politician and has just the charm and eloquence that McCain lacks (and the GOP thought they were getting with Palin).

Not to mention his own tv program on Fox every Sunday.

If you think the audiences at the ABC are stacked, just catch a few minutes of 'Huckabee' on channel 604.

The fat-cats on Wall Street had better watch their backs, now that this 'conservative' is on the beat.

 

[GuruJane]

Re: Sarah Palin?

While I expect she'll have some supporters, I think she's long odds to get the GOP nod in 2012. Remember, she got plucked from obscurity by McCain. She didn't have to survive a gruelling nomination campaign. There's no way she'd get away with dodging interviews or doing only one debate if she jumped into the primaries. I couldn't see how she'd get within a mile of the nomination if actually forced to run against the likes of Huckabee, Romney, Pawlenty, Jindal and co.

Will all depend on how President Obama and veto-proof Democratic congress cure the US economic meltdown. If things are hunky dory by then in the heartland and the oceans really have started to subside then Palin and Jindal will probably leave 2012 to a Bob Dole candidate while they get on with governing their states.

 

[Messenger]

Re: Sarah Palin?

In those circumstances, it's difficult to see how she'd beat the likes of Romney and Huckabee -- and probably a few others who'll be in the mix. Huckabee, in particular, is a very gifted performer. He's got four years now to finesse some of his more troubling positions, add depth in areas where he's shallow, and sweet-talk the GOP moneymen who'll have to finance his run; and unlike Palin I think he's got the native intelligence and charm and skill to do it.

Some well made points, Palmer, but I think you overestimate Mitt Romney; this guy had to change his ideological bent radically to even get as far as he did. He even got his NRA card FFS! That's a politician in search of a constituency if I ever heard it.

Huckabee ran out of money long before he ran out of steam, so I think he is the front runner. If Palin can keep herself nice for two years she still ticks all the boxes for the GOP, even if she has anyone within shouting distance of political moderacy running for the hills right now.

 

[DaveW]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Will all depend on how President Obama and veto-proof Democratic congress cure the US economic meltdown.

You mean filibuster proof, not veto proof.

 

[GuruJane]

Re: Sarah Palin?

You mean filibuster proof, not veto proof.

You're not expecting President Obama to veto any bills the Dem congress puts up, I gather?

 

[DaveW]

Re: Sarah Palin?

You're not expecting President Obama to veto any bills the Dem congress puts up, I gather?

It would be nice if Obama fought wasteful spending (one of McCain's redeeming qualities). But intra-party fights on core Democratic programs like tax and healthcare? Surely not.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Re: Sarah Palin?

Will all depend on how President Obama and veto-proof Democratic congress cure the US economic meltdown. If things are hunky dory by then in the heartland and the oceans really have started to subside then Palin and Jindal will probably leave 2012 to a Bob Dole candidate while they get on with governing their states.

I'm sure there'll be a lot of those sorta calculations going on, Jane. Someone like Jindal, for example, could afford to stand out of the 2012 fireworks if Obama is looking impregnable. Then again, even a failed run in 2012 could position him nicely for 2016, I guess. I don't know too much about Jindal, but what little I've seen of him is quite impressive. The unknown is just how someone of his background will be received by the Republican base -- in a perverse, counterintuitive way, I think a lot of the same bigots who are stirring themselves up over Obama may just embrace Jindal.

But anyway, IMO -- regardless of how Obama fares -- I don't think Palin's got the goods to win the GOP nomination. If the economy does go to hell in a handbasket and -- fairly or not -- Obama's blamed for it, I don't think Palin will be the one in the position to take advantage of it. There are far more capable GOP politicians in line who I can't see her climbing over.