SFNL Div 1 2018

[ViolatedWill]

Hypothetically.....

A kid finished a teaching degree and scores a 12 month contract in Swan Hill. The lady he's covering for returns from maternity leave so he gets another 12 month contract at Warrnambool. Again he misses on a permanent gig then gets a teaching job in Melbourne.

Should that kid get a point penalty for club hopping? 3 clubs in 3 years. Is that what the rule was designed for?

 

[Sratsky]

I’m sure Port Colts didn’t find it all that amusing. It was due to points an nothing else. Juggling players was considered but removing one fringe player and selecting Cal would still leave them over the cap.

I guess this is the PPV doing what it was meant to do and discourage club hopping, particularly between clubs in the same competition. Under the PPV policy Cal went from a 3 to a 4 on the basis he would be playing against his previous club.

I could be wrong but I don't think playing against ur former club has anything to do with points. however ur performances for ur previous club come in to play, ie top 3 bnf finish, leading goal kicker, etc...… other factors include how often a player changes clubs...…

I coached in div 2 last year and we recruited a guy from div 3 who was a 5 pointer because he had been at 3 clubs in 3 years and finished in the top 3 bnf at his div 3 club. yet we also recruited guys from division 1 (mainly fringe players) and they were all either 3 or 4 pointers...… makes things very hard to police

 

[The_Koach]

I could be wrong but I don't think playing against ur former club has anything to do with points. however ur performances for ur previous club come in to play, ie top 3 bnf finish, leading goal kicker, etc...… other factors include how often a player changes clubs...…

I coached in div 2 last year and we recruited a guy from div 3 who was a 5 pointer because he had been at 3 clubs in 3 years and finished in the top 3 bnf at his div 3 club. yet we also recruited guys from division 1 (mainly fringe players) and they were all either 3 or 4 pointers...… makes things very hard to police

You are.

 

[Tigersman]

I could be wrong but I don't think playing against ur former club has anything to do with points. however ur performances for ur previous club come in to play, ie top 3 bnf finish, leading goal kicker, etc...… other factors include how often a player changes clubs...…

I coached in div 2 last year and we recruited a guy from div 3 who was a 5 pointer because he had been at 3 clubs in 3 years and finished in the top 3 bnf at his div 3 club. yet we also recruited guys from division 1 (mainly fringe players) and they were all either 3 or 4 pointers...… makes things very hard to police

You do get another point if you transfer to a side in the same division/ Comp

 

[Billy the Lid]

I could be wrong but I don't think playing against ur former club has anything to do with points. however ur performances for ur previous club come in to play, ie top 3 bnf finish, leading goal kicker, etc...… other factors include how often a player changes clubs...…

I coached in div 2 last year and we recruited a guy from div 3 who was a 5 pointer because he had been at 3 clubs in 3 years and finished in the top 3 bnf at his div 3 club. yet we also recruited guys from division 1 (mainly fringe players) and they were all either 3 or 4 pointers...… makes things very hard to police

You are wrong. It does. The relative clause in summary is as follows “Additional 1 point if transferring from another community club and will be competing against their former club”

There is actually is discretion in some circumstances to increase this to an additional 2 points but expect this is rarely applied.

 

[Billy the Lid]

Hypothetically.....

A kid finished a teaching degree and scores a 12 month contract in Swan Hill. The lady he's covering for returns from maternity leave so he gets another 12 month contract at Warrnambool. Again he misses on a permanent gig then gets a teaching job in Melbourne.

Should that kid get a point penalty for club hopping? 3 clubs in 3 years. Is that what the rule was designed for?

No its not designed for that which is why there is provision in the policy to review a players PPA based on individual circumstances. It’s designed to discourage the club hopping, over paid mercenaries who sell themselves to the highest bidder that have unfortunately proliferated most metro and suburban competitions.

 

[Sratsky]

You are wrong. It does. The relative clause in summary is as follows “Additional 1 point if transferring from another community club and will be competing against their former club”

There is actually is discretion in some circumstances to increase this to an additional 2 points but expect this is rarely applied.

happy to be corrected, thanks for the info. I still have questions though. before I was part of SFNL I was in the SEFNL. I am almost positive that players who came from another SEFNL club were 3 pointers. so does this mean that if they came from a same standard league but not the same league they would be 2 pointers? I don't know the port guy involved or barely anyone in div 1 to be honest but I saw someone said he played VFL. surely that is what makes him a 4 pointer. recruiting someone from the same division / league shouldn't cost 4 points I don't think, but my opinion only

 

[Boss Hogg]

Hypothetically.....

A kid finished a teaching degree and scores a 12 month contract in Swan Hill. The lady he's covering for returns from maternity leave so he gets another 12 month contract at Warrnambool. Again he misses on a permanent gig then gets a teaching job in Melbourne.

Should that kid get a point penalty for club hopping? 3 clubs in 3 years. Is that what the rule was designed for?

So “hypothetically” he’s played in 2 strong country footy leagues, one in the top 10 leagues in Victoria, so no doubt he can play or you wouldn’t be asking the question. Probably 24 years old with maybe TAC cup experience wanting to go to a club that’s tight on points? Yeah good one! Nice cover story though

Look out for clearances from Hampden Football league before June 30 I say

I think you’ll find that dispensation will be dead in the water after this year

 

[Sratsky]

No its not designed for that which is why there is provision in the policy to review a players PPA based on individual circumstances. It’s designed to discourage the club hopping, over paid mercenaries who sell themselves to the highest bidder that have unfortunately proliferated most metro and suburban competitions.

I agree with what you say above BtL but I don't think all the blame can be placed on the "mercenaries". clubs should know what they are getting themselves in for. I don't know how many ppl on here have heard of Danny Cassett but I am sure there's a few. played at over 20 clubs and more than once took a sign on fee only to change clubs again. yet the guy could always find a club to play at coz he was a gun. EVERYONE knew what they were getting when they signed Cass. more than likely 100+ goals and possibly some headaches along the way but they were all happy to have him on board...…

PS - this is not a dig at Cass or any other players out there. just an example of how clubs are responsible also. I played with Cass and had a blast while doing so...…. he was great for our club

 

[2s Hack]

happy to be corrected, thanks for the info. I still have questions though. before I was part of SFNL I was in the SEFNL. I am almost positive that players who came from another SEFNL club were 3 pointers. so does this mean that if they came from a same standard league but not the same league they would be 2 pointers? I don't know the port guy involved or barely anyone in div 1 to be honest but I saw someone said he played VFL. surely that is what makes him a 4 pointer. recruiting someone from the same division / league shouldn't cost 4 points I don't think, but my opinion only

If they come from same standard league they are to another league they are still 3 pointers. However if they come from SEFNL (premier conpetition) to SFNL Division 3 then an additional point should be added. Hasn’t been the case though it would seem for one team’s recruits

 

[Sratsky]

So “hypothetically” he’s played in 2 strong country footy leagues, one in the top 10 leagues in Victoria, so no doubt he can play or you wouldn’t be asking the question. Probably 24 years old with maybe TAC cup experience wanting to go to a club that’s tight on points? Yeah good one! Nice cover story though

Look out for clearances from Hampden Football league before June 30 I say

I think you’ll find that dispensation will be dead in the water after this year

very astute bossman. and I do agree that regardless of personal situation, previous footy experience should be accounted for. however, if this "hypothetical" teacher were able to prove their situation (degrees and contracts all still come in hard copies and schools have records) then I don't think it would be unreasonable to deduct a point due to circumstances. but anything like this must be proven without doubt in my opinion.....

 

[Sratsky]

If they come from same standard league they are to another league they are still 3 pointers. However if they come from SEFNL (premier conpetition) to SFNL Division 3 then an additional point should be added. Hasn’t been the case though it would seem for one team’s recruits

my initial post was about the port colts guy who is apparently 4 points yet came from same league. is he 4 points because of VFL experience or because he plays against his former club? if it is the latter then that is very tough I think.

 

[2s Hack]

my initial post was about the port colts guy who is apparently 4 points yet came from same league. is he 4 points because of VFL experience or because he plays against his former club? if it is the latter then that is very tough I think.

I don’t think he played enough senior VFL games to qualify for extra points or he’d be a 5 pointer. Definitely 4 points due to playing against old club

 

[Sratsky]

I don’t think he played enough senior VFL games to qualify for extra points or he’d be a 5 pointer. Definitely 4 points due to playing against old club

so why then are players who transfer from one SEFNL club to another only 3 pointers? they play against their old side.

 

[Billy the Lid]

my initial post was about the port colts guy who is apparently 4 points yet came from same league. is he 4 points because of VFL experience or because he plays against his former club? if it is the latter then that is very tough I think.

Only played handful of VFL 2s games so would ordinarily would be a 3 pointer. He is a 4 because he is playing against his previous club St Pauls.

 

[2s Hack]

so why then are players who transfer from one SEFNL club to another only 3 pointers? they play against their old side.

Maybe they played more reserves games the year before than seniors
They then would be 2 points plus the additional for playing against old team
That’s the only reason they’d be 3 points

 

[Billy the Lid]

I agree with what you say above BtL but I don't think all the blame can be placed on the "mercenaries". clubs should know what they are getting themselves in for. I don't know how many ppl on here have heard of Danny Cassett but I am sure there's a few. played at over 20 clubs and more than once took a sign on fee only to change clubs again. yet the guy could always find a club to play at coz he was a gun. EVERYONE knew what they were getting when they signed Cass. more than likely 100+ goals and possibly some headaches along the way but they were all happy to have him on board...…

PS - this is not a dig at Cass or any other players out there. just an example of how clubs are responsible also. I played with Cass and had a blast while doing so...…. he was great for our club

Absolutely agree with you Strasky. Clubs are also complicit and I am sure there many clubs who have found themselves in deep financial $hit by paying overs to suburban hacks who have inflated their ability.

Perhaps the points cap will keep clubs more focussed on development and retention as well as discouraging club hopping by players.

 

[Sratsky]

Absolutely agree with you Strasky. Clubs are also complicit and I am sure there many clubs who have found themselves in deep financial $hit by paying overs to suburban hacks who have inflated their ability.

Perhaps the points cap will keep clubs more focussed on development and retention as well as discouraging club hopping by players.

that is certainly what it is meant for but some clubs don't have the luxury of development. for those clubs retention is key so their initial recruits have their points reduce over time. however 4 points because someone is playing against their old club is absolutely ridiculous (almost 10% of the points allowed for a 22 man squad). the only reason this could be the case is because of the reasons mentioned above about his credentials for his old club. I assume he finished in the top 3 of their bnf or goal kicking?

I know of some very recent examples of SEFNL recruits so I will try to find out what their points were last season. I know for a fact these guys weren't 2's players at all.

 

[Billy the Lid]

that is certainly what it is meant for but some clubs don't have the luxury of development. for those clubs retention is key so their initial recruits have their points reduce over time. however 4 points because someone is playing against their old club is absolutely ridiculous (almost 10% of the points allowed for a 22 man squad). the only reason this could be the case is because of the reasons mentioned above about his credentials for his old club. I assume he finished in the top 3 of their bnf or goal kicking?

I know of some very recent examples of SEFNL recruits so I will try to find out what their points were last season. I know for a fact these guys weren't 2's players at all.

Stratsky. We seem to be going around in circles here. The reason he was allocated an extra point is because he is playing against his old club. End of story. While B&F and goal kicking is relevant in other circumstances, it makes no difference in the case of someone playing against their previous club. Not saying it’s fair but them’s the rules.

If you interested in learning more here’s the link to the policy. As clubs self-nominate I don’t doubt what you say about examples form the SEFL but this is how points are supposed to be allocated.

http://aflvic.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Player-Points-System-Policy-2018-season-Final.pdf

 

[Tigersman]

that is certainly what it is meant for but some clubs don't have the luxury of development. for those clubs retention is key so their initial recruits have their points reduce over time. however 4 points because someone is playing against their old club is absolutely ridiculous (almost 10% of the points allowed for a 22 man squad). the only reason this could be the case is because of the reasons mentioned above about his credentials for his old club. I assume he finished in the top 3 of their bnf or goal kicking?

I know of some very recent examples of SEFNL recruits so I will try to find out what their points were last season. I know for a fact these guys weren't 2's players at all.

Any senior player crossing over to this Comp from the SEFNL is a minimum 4 point player unless they have a history with their new clubs junior program.
This has been the issue with many transfers this year into the lower divs of this league. Many players have been given the wrong point value and for whatever reason this has been ticked off by head office, according to the clubs involved.

Without knowing the case made by the club when submitting the player for assessment it’s hard to know if a player has been given unders or not.

Very tricky issue for the league to fix so late in the season. If they start adjusting points now then is going to be too late for players squeezed out at selection for poInts reasons to find a new home.

 

[Boss Hogg]

Any senior player crossing over to this Comp from the SEFNL is a minimum 4 point player unless they have a history with their new clubs junior program.
This has been the issue with many transfers this year into the lower divs of this league. Many players have been given the wrong point value and for whatever reason this has been ticked off by head office, according to the clubs involved.

Without knowing the case made by the club when submitting the player for assessment it’s hard to know if a player has been given unders or not.

Very tricky issue for the league to fix so late in the season. If they start adjusting points now then is going to be too late for players squeezed out at selection for poInts reasons to find a new home.

Here lies the issue. I don't believe points were getting looked at nor "ticked off", due to the league being under resourced at the time, at season's beginning and the league relying on club's knowledge & honesty to allocate points to each player. It started with a couple of clubs bringing the issue to the league on 1 certain player in 1 club early in the year, who was listed at 1 point instead of 4 & it started spiralling out of control when other clubs got paranoid and untrusting of what points were presented on team sheets

 

[Billy the Lid]

Any senior player crossing over to this Comp from the SEFNL is a minimum 4 point player unless they have a history with their new clubs junior program.
This has been the issue with many transfers this year into the lower divs of this league. Many players have been given the wrong point value and for whatever reason this has been ticked off by head office, according to the clubs involved.

Without knowing the case made by the club when submitting the player for assessment it’s hard to know if a player has been given unders or not.

Very tricky issue for the league to fix so late in the season. If they start adjusting points now then is going to be too late for players squeezed out at selection for poInts reasons to find a new home.

Not entirely correct. If transferring from a club in premier competition to a club in a non-premier competition an additional point applies. SFNL Div. 1 is a premier competition so you can go from the SENFL to an SFNL Div. 1 club and not accrue an extra point.

 

[Tigersman]

Not entirely correct. If transferring from a club in premier competition to a club in a non-premier competition an additional point applies. SFNL Div. 1 is a premier competition so you can go from the SENFL to an SFNL Div. 1 club and not accrue an extra point.

Sorry Your right . I’m used to viewing this from a lower div perspective

 

[ViolatedWill]

No its not designed for that which is why there is provision in the policy to review a players PPA based on individual circumstances. It’s designed to discourage the club hopping, over paid mercenaries who sell themselves to the highest bidder that have unfortunately proliferated most metro and suburban competitions.

Right. Well my information is that one of the offending players in question has twice moved hundreds of kilometres for employment purposes and has worn the extra point for the 3 clubs rule.

My point with the hypothetical was that the rules are very untidily drawn up. So much so that if they are to serve their stated intention of encouraging players to play at their highest level they are unworkable. Indeed in some respects the rules discourage participation entirely. Fringe senior player rocks up at a club having just moved to the area for work....."Sorry mate, but you're a 3 pointer, we can't accommodate you." Cheltenham (hypothetically) appoints a new coach that previously ran off with fringe player's missus. Fringe player goes to Bentleigh. "Sorry mate, can't accommodate you. You're not worth the penalty point."

Then there's this hypothetical....a club has enjoyed relative stability for 5 years. An incident occurs within the club causing the club's best 10 players (who are all 1 pointers having played there for 5 years) to walk out. That club has their hands tied in replacing those players. It costs a minimum of 30 points to replace 10 points. An incident, a difference of opinion or an illicit liaison or whatever, which has occurred reasonably frequently at all clubs throughout history, used to simply be a part of the particular club's history. Now it has the potential to permanently destroy an otherwise good club.

As so often happens with rule or law changes (particularly within the AFL), insufficient consideration is given to outcomes on the downside. They'll crack down on the grey areas (as they seem to have done already) then they'll change the rules for the following year, probably again creating more grey than black/white.

 

[Scuzidapun]

I have been told by people from multiple clubs now that this has been handled and there is no further action to take place. The players who people have doubts over have been given dispensation at the start of the year, the only issue is really the lack of transparency from the league to other clubs. Hopefully them come out and confirm all this soon.

So I am going to discuss this weekends football instead.

DINGLEY vs Port Colts (26 Points)

Dingley have been battling the last few weeks particularly it seems to kick a score. They should be able to get back on the winners list tomorrow and get their season back on track somewhat. Port have been hanging about in games so think this one will be close enough for the majority of the day.

EAST MALVERN vs St Kilda City (31 Points)

My team to beat for the year are flying at the moment. A strong senior midfield group has got the better of just about everyone they have faced and i can see this continuing. St Kilda City are a bit inconsistent and i think they will struggle to stay with the Panthers in the battle of the PPV.

BENTLEIGH vs Oakleigh Districts (9 points)

An improved Oakleigh Districts in recent weeks makes this a lot closer than what i wold have said it would be 2/3 weeks ago. However i think Bentleigh will just get over the line at home and stay in that top group in the log jam at the top of the table.

Chelsea Heights vs MORDIALLOC (73 points)

Blowout of the round. Having watched Chelsea Heights a few weeks ago they look to have a few injuries, the class and depth gap here will show out at the end of the day. If the conditions stay dry i think the margin may be bigger.

Cheltenham vs ST PAULS (41 Points)

Another blowout of sorts, all the pre season hope and talk around Cheltenham has shown to be nothing but hot air. From all reports completed dismantled last round and barely gave a yelp. St Pauls have had a small slide of their own with a couple of blips on the radar, however they will account for the Rosella's easily in this one.