Steele Sidebottom - Rusty's Day Out..

[Pie eyed]

I'm glad I'm not the only one.
Beams is more a hard working, committed type who you can see is giving his all and I'm not even going to compare the two.
Sidebottom looks likes he's loving every single second of it, no matter how hot it's getting.

There's a revelry there.

I'll back my gut.

 

[Zahki]

All I'm going to say is that I hope Sidebottom plays a full season this year and I have been very impressed with his performances in all his games so far.

 

[dayna36]

some ppl were doubting his ability after the round one loss.

They can doubt him til the cows come home, the fact is the kid played afl footy at a senior level in his first year.......and most of his career will be under Bucks, with a couple of years development from MM initially.......its all up to him, if he can back it up this year (fingers-crossed) woo!!hoo!!....I can still remember no.22 lifting up the 1990 Cup....go pies!!!

 

[pauly_moss]

looks like he should have gotten rid of the ball a bit quicker at times in that game love how he can weave ouuta trouble very very Pendlebury like, think he is the best comparison which is gold as Pendles is my favourite but he should ditch the moe

 

[DWil6]

Sorry, but I don't see one elite attribute he's got, other than perhaps mental attributes, such as poise and footy brain.

Well he has AFL elite cardiovascular ability, no question. So that puts paid to that.

 

[TradeDraft]

I'm glad I'm not the only one.
Beams is more a hard working, committed type who you can see is giving his all and I'm not even going to compare the two.
Sidebottom looks likes he's loving every single second of it, no matter how hot it's getting.

There's a revelry there.

I'll back my gut.

Agree is a Purer Footballer. Okay he has not got Speed or can Kick the Ball a Mile. But his AFL IQ is off the Charts.

When he out there he looks like a 100+ Gamer and That is the Same with Beams

 

[Michael_knoth]

I think rustys got a better chance at being elite over beams. Beams I don't see as having anything elite. I still think sidebottom reminds me of a young hird (not saying he's as good!) but just the whole not quick, not hugely built, but a very very good footy brain. That with great disposal and the always trying his hEart out attitude.

 

[TradeDraft]

I think rustys got a better chance at being elite over beams. Beams I don't see as having anything elite. I still think sidebottom reminds me of a young hird (not saying he's as good!) but just the whole not quick, not hugely built, but a very very good footy brain. That with great disposal and the always trying his hEart out attitude.

Will I agree people say that is like Diesel Williams as he has a Six-Sense of the Game and Very Quick Hands.

Though Hird is an interesting Comparison

 

[Michael_knoth]

Haha yeah it's a big and difficult call to be comparing anyone to hird, black, voss, cousins, Buckley, but I just see the same in him. Hird didn't have a massive frame. Wasn't quick. Could just read the play well, find space, use both sides of his body and could go forward and kick a goal. Just think that rusty summed up. Again not saying he'll even be anywhere near as good but I do think that there is a comparison. Both put their heads over the ball as well...

 

[mdc]

Hird was almost KP height...

 

[Michael_knoth]

Yeah I purposely left that out. However I don't think it was hirds height that made him a great player. More so the points I pointed out. Correct me if I'm wrong though

 

[mdc]

imo, shrink Hird to sub-6"0, and you have a very good smart footballer rather than one of the all-time greats.

Same thing for Pendlebury. At his 6"3, he's our best talent since Buckley. At sub-6"0, he'd be a skilled plodder.

 

[Quicky]

I don't think the comparisons to Lockyer are close at all. Sidebottom from what we have seen (albeit in his short career) is a better kick (and thats a huge compliment coz Lockyer is no slouch), has greater evasiveness, a stronger build, better composure under pressure especially in tight and just seems to read the play well. To me Sidebottom strikes me much more as a genuine midfielder as opposed to a flanker which Lockyer is. The combination of Sidebottoms composure, excellent dual sided skills, evasiveness and fitness will make him a very good midfielder.

 

[Pie eyed]

imo, shrink Hird to sub-6"0, and you have a very good smart footballer rather than one of the all-time greats.

Same thing for Pendlebury. At his 6"3, he's our best talent since Buckley. At sub-6"0, he'd be a skilled plodder.

Do you contend that Hirds actual deeds would have been rated less if he was shorter or that he could not have performed them if he was shorter?

Diesel was only 5'9"....good god if only he was 3" taller....how good???

Cousins 5"10

Daicos 5"10

 

[mdc]

I don't think the comparisons to Lockyer are close at all. Sidebottom from what we have seen (albeit in his short career) is a better kick (and thats a huge compliment coz Lockyer is no slouch), has greater evasiveness, a stronger build, better composure under pressure especially in tight and just seems to read the play well. To me Sidebottom strikes me much more as a genuine midfielder as opposed to a flanker which Lockyer is. The combination of Sidebottoms composure, excellent dual sided skills, evasiveness and fitness will make him a very good midfielder.

Agree with all that. The step from very good to elite is a big one, though.

Also, definitely don't agree that he is either a better kick or a stronger build than Tarks. Having said that, at the same age, it'd be pretty close on either count.

Do you contend that Hirds actual deeds would have been rated less if he was shorter or that he could not have performed them if he was shorter?

Diesel was only 5'9"....good god if only he was 3" taller....how good???

Cousins 5"10

Daicos 5"10

The latter.

That's not to say it's impossible to be a great despite diminiutive size. But it is impossible to be James Hird.

Diesel and Daicos, though undeniably great players, belong to an era past (fwiw, wiki has Daics @ 6"0+).

Cousins had good to very good pace, and was essentially an outside player. Sidebottom simply doesn't have the pace to truly excel as a predominantly outside player.

Basically, I'm a firm believer that to be an elite midfielder you have to either;
- Have exceptional balance coupled with very good speed (Yablett/Cousins/McLeod)
- Be 6"1+, preferably with wide shoulders and long arms (Bucks/Hird/Roo/Black)
- Be an absolute nutcase (Voss/Selwood)

The only elite sub-6"0 midfielder of the last 15 years who doesn't have any of the three is Sam Mitchell, as far as I can see (I may be overlooking someone though). Which is why I use Mitchell as Sidebottom's best-case scenario. But Mitchell, even from a very young age, was an absolute freak both at clearances and the art of the handball. Sidey, though good at both, is a freak at neither.

Anyway, that's a lot of hot air really, but that's basically the reasoning behind myself (and others) rating Beams ahead of Sidebottom in terms of star potential. Beams is already a veritable nutcase.

 

[Pie eyed]

Just an addendum to to the height issue.

Steele was 183cm when drafted. 6'
James Hird was 182cm when picked up by Essendon. He is listed as 188cm(6'3) at his peak several years later.

Height is not really an issue any more then.

Still I'm not saying SSB II will be a James Hird, but the scope is there.

 

[Dundalis]

You don't see him having a "poise' or an inherent willingness to take the game on and not be rushed into a decision?

I'm not talking about his skills, I'm impressed by his temperament under pressure and his self confidence.

I did say I don't see him having any elite attributes "other" than those things. I can see the high level footy brain and poise.

Yep. You get a great sense he's 'in' the game, which is what you want. There's a flow and a grace which seems hard to extract from other players.

If he's not the quickest/sharpest/etc. then meh. But he's certainly a footballer by nature which is most important.

This is why I think he will be a good player, perhaps Tarkyn Lockyer with superior football IQ and tank. The genuine elite players have both the mental attributes and the skills.

Well he has AFL elite cardiovascular ability, no question. So that puts paid to that.

Add this to his repertoire then.

I think rustys got a better chance at being elite over beams. Beams I don't see as having anything elite. I still think sidebottom reminds me of a young hird (not saying he's as good!) but just the whole not quick, not hugely built, but a very very good footy brain. That with great disposal and the always trying his heart out attitude.

As mdc mentioned, Beams has the potential, if he can harness it properly to be an elite player by going down the Selwood route of being a hard in and under type than can extract at will. Combined with a good long kick off both sides (IMO Beams kicks with far more penetration, lower through the air than Sidebottom, whom comes more from the Pendlebury style of kicking), as well as a quality handball and a good head under pressure like Sidebottom, gives him a good shot of being an elite player. His potential is an elite inside midfielder. Beams is also more mobile, and quicker than Sidebottom.

Sidebottom on the other hand shows solid potential as an inside mid, as well as solid as an outside. To be elite, IMO requires you show potential as a great inside mid, a great outside mid, or being great at both, the latter of which there are very few.

These comparisons to Hird and Bartel are ridiculous IMO, it reeks to me of Collingwood supporters having someone to call the next great hope, regardless of whether they fit the profile or not. It's happened previous years with numerous duds/solid to good players.

Hird fit the mould of elite inside player the times he did play in the midfield (he had the kamikaze style attack on the footy), and elite utility forward. When he burst onto the scene for Essendon, he did so as a kid that basically looked like he could dominate as a centre half forward, and at 188cm back in 1993, it was not out of the realms of possibility at that height. There is no reasonable comparison whatsoever to Sidebottom. Hird was a genuinely fantastic mark, could play above his height, and genuinely dominate in the forward line as a KPP. In fact prior to some of his injuries in the late 90's he was genuinely quick, he burnt players off the mark similar to the way Tarrant did for us at his peak. Hird may not have had a classic kicking style, but his accuracy on snap kicks from any angle, with both field kicking and for goal, is as good as I've ever seen. People talking about how Hird was average at this or that don't know what their talking about. You don't just become a great of the game by having average skills, no matter the level of your footy IQ.

 

[mattys123]

Rusty was good today, played in the midfield and up forward, but to those that say he can't kick over a jam tin, I think it's his technique when having set kicks (from dead play) that is the worry.

At one point today he slammed the ball on his boot out of the middle and it went 60 metres, now that proves he has the ability when he doesn't "think about it", and just roosts it.

He'll be ok, in fact he'll be a star, but 2011 will be Rusty's first consistent year of senior footy, he will still have "down periods" at stages this year, but still should be in the side unless he drops formt terribly.

Beams is ahead of him in development, Beams is already an AFL senior class midfielder, while Rusty is probably 12 months off being that on a consistent basis.

 

[Snag Breac]

Just what are the defining characteristics of the midfield nutcase, mdc?

 

[Dundalis]

Rusty was good today, played in the midfield and up forward, but to those that say he can't kick over a jam tin, I think it's his technique when having set kicks (from dead play) that is the worry.

At one point today he slammed the ball on his boot out of the middle and it went 60 metres, now that proves he has the ability when he doesn't "think about it", and just roosts it.

He'll be ok, in fact he'll be a star, but 2011 will be Rusty's first consistent year of senior footy, he will still have "down periods" at stages this year, but still should be in the side unless he drops formt terribly.

Beams is ahead of him in development, Beams is already an AFL senior class midfielder, while Rusty is probably 12 months off being that on a consistent basis.

Just want to get in before I get responses from people saying I'm bagging Steele and think he's a dud (which happened after I said the exact same things I'm saying now about Dale Thomas when the hype here was at it's peak), I think and hope Sidebottom is a good player for us. I'd be quite happy with an improved version of Tarkyn Lockyer, that would be a player that should be a good servant for the club for a long time. Ain't nothing wrong with that.

 

[Dundalis]

Just what are the defining characteristics of the midfield nutcase, mdc?

See Joel Selwood, Scott Burns, Luke Ball etc. It's not an attribute that is particularly difficult to discern from a player.

 

[Michael_knoth]

Dundalis. U and a few people have chosen to only take in what u wanted from my post. I even said I wasn't saying he was going to be anywhere near as good as hird but I think he reminds
me of hird. I don't remember saying anything about him being collingwoods savier or anything like that? All I said is that I(me personally) think he plays like hird. Your entitled to your opinion as am I. But don't go
telling me my opinion is wrong. Rusty could be anything. So unfortuantly your statement is wrong whilst my opinion is just that. An opinion.

If you can't see the comparison that's your loss

 

[Dundalis]

Dundalis. U and a few people have chosen to only take in what u wanted from my post. I even said I wasn't saying he was going to be anywhere near as good as hird but I think he reminds
me of hird. I don't remember saying anything about him being collingwoods savier or anything like that? All I said is that I(me personally) think he plays like hird. Your entitled to your opinion as am I. But don't go
telling me my opinion is wrong. Rusty could be anything. So unfortuantly your statement is wrong whilst my opinion is just that. An opinion.

If you can't see the comparison that's your loss

My comments about Hird were not directed soley at YOU. They were in response to your comment, but were generalised to include everyone in this thread that has made the comparison, or talked Sidebottom up as a future superstar/elite player of the comp. And you don't say some kid reminds you of a legend of the game unless you have genuinely high hopes for them. Are you saying you disagree with others in this thread that Sidebottom is going to be an elite superstar of the comp?

I've heard it before anyway, you may or may not have been one of the ones to say how much Dale Thomas reminds you of James Hird back in 2005. Well Thomas and Sidebottom are nothing alike, yet they remind so many Pies supporters of James Hird. Interesting that. Of course now the Hird/Thomas comparisons have died down with the hype, as I expect it will with Sidebottom down the track. But some other kid will probably come along that we draft in a couple years that will again remind everyone of James Hird/(insert some other AFL great here). I personally think Hird is used, because he is regarded as a great, yet wrongly perceived by many to not have a great deal of standout qualities (therefore making a comparison a bit more palatable for one eyed supporters hungry for a future superstar to get excited about)

 

[Pie eyed]

I did say I don't see him having any elite attributes "other" than those things. I can see the high level footy brain and poise.

This is why I think he will be a good player, perhaps Tarkyn Lockyer with superior football IQ and tank. The genuine elite players have both the mental attributes and the skills.

Add this to his repertoire then.

As mdc mentioned, Beams has the potential, if he can harness it properly to be an elite player by going down the Selwood route of being a hard in and under type than can extract at will. Combined with a good long kick off both sides (IMO Beams kicks with far more penetration, lower through the air than Sidebottom, whom comes more from the Pendlebury style of kicking), as well as a quality handball and a good head under pressure like Sidebottom, gives him a good shot of being an elite player. His potential is an elite inside midfielder. Beams is also more mobile, and quicker than Sidebottom.

Sidebottom on the other hand shows solid potential as an inside mid, as well as solid as an outside. To be elite, IMO requires you show potential as a great inside mid, a great outside mid, or being great at both, the latter of which there are very few.

These comparisons to Hird and Bartel are ridiculous IMO, it reeks to me of Collingwood supporters having someone to call the next great hope, regardless of whether they fit the profile or not. It's happened previous years with numerous duds/solid to good players.

Hird fit the mould of elite inside player the times he did play in the midfield (he had the kamikaze style attack on the footy), and elite utility forward. When he burst onto the scene for Essendon, he did so as a kid that basically looked like he could dominate as a centre half forward, and at 188cm back in 1993, it was not out of the realms of possibility at that height. There is no reasonable comparison whatsoever to Sidebottom. Hird was a genuinely fantastic mark, could play above his height, and genuinely dominate in the forward line as a KPP. In fact prior to some of his injuries in the late 90's he was genuinely quick, he burnt players off the mark similar to the way Tarrant did for us at his peak. Hird may not have had a classic kicking style, but his accuracy on snap kicks from any angle, with both field kicking and for goal, is as good as I've ever seen. People talking about how Hird was average at this or that don't know what their talking about. You don't just become a great of the game by having average skills, no matter the level of your footy IQ.

Just to clarify my posts,

I have only even put SSB II's name in the same post as Hirdy's in answer to a question of height, which I think is not only moot now as they were/are the same height, but because height really has little determining factor in potential greatness.

But....as the names have been linked by others and yourself....


Hirdy played 0 games in his first year for the Bombers, ,mainly due to injury.
He played 4 Senior games in 1992.
He played 16 games in 1993, 3 of these finals and 1 of those a winning GF.
In this, his third year he was ranked 121st statistically. (I know but the only measure across era)

Sidey has played 11 games in his first year and played 3 finals already in a top 4 side. Ranking 338th


Make sure you understand I am not making any claim Sidey is or will be a James Hird.

Who was the James Hird before Hirdy....well there wasn't one was there.

Sidey could be the next Steele Sidebottom.

 

[the woodsmen2010]

Hirdy played 0 games in his first year for the Bombers, ,mainly due to injury.
He played 4 Senior games in 1992.
He played 16 games in 1993, 3 of these finals and 1 of those a winning GF.
In this, his third year he was ranked 121st statistically. (I know but the only measure across era)

Sidey has played 11 games in his first year and played 3 finals already in a top 4 side. Ranking 338th


Make sure you understand I am not making any claim Sidey is or will be a James Hird.

Who was the James Hird before Hirdy....well there wasn't one was there.

Sidey could be the next Steele Sidebottom.[/QUOTE]

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