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Mega Thread The 2017 'Buckley's Chances' Thread

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Anzacday said:
If you could find and post that comment or give me instructions on how to navigate that site, it would be greatly appreciated, (not just by me I'm sure).
Click to expand...
It's pretty easy when you get used to it. The key is to remember when you first learned how to use a PC. Then try and keep that happy thought in your head as you claw your eyes out.
 

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Also this... From scout
What makes a good coach?
1. Clear vision
2. Ability to teach and reinforce the vision
3. Investment in people (including importantly, them as people, not athletes)
4. A strategic mind, with mental agility a feature
5. Unflappable temperamentso they wolves don't drag you down
6. The ability to understand how important it is to have a good team around you, and not insist that this is made up of yes men
7. High standards for little things
8. Instinctive competitiveness - a desire to turn every pebble
"Obviously the list I provided was fairly superficial and within that comes an expectation of clear understanding as to the capacity (or lack of) of each player on the list. This extends to the 'grouping' or coupling of talent in the various lines and teams (e.g. defensive groups, midfield rotations etc)...its that getting that synergy or dynamism right, that leads to the great saying that a champion team will beat a team of champions.

I mean, we have all looked at certain teams and thought we have matched up well, then we get trounced and we scratch our heads. IMHO this comes down to team synergy and flow. A team that seems to have a bit of flow that belies it's talent is Carlton in my opinion.


On the coach,I have a belief that Nathan meets many of the markers, but I do believe, and why this is the case I do not know, that he tends to see more value in grunt/grind/effort than he does in class/skill/polish. Nathan seems to prize effort above all else...thus those who give it, seem to be more rewarded. The laconic but often skilled players seem to draw his ire, even if behind the scenes. Ironically, he was quite disconnected as a player, but for different reasons (super focus, ultra unconditional approach ostracised him). I for one was not surprised when we lost Beams, Thomas, Shaw and co...they were supremely talented, but didn't buy into the whole 'football is life' mantra that Nathan subscribes to.

Nathan now has many who are ultra driven, but the offshoot of that is when success doesn't come, they dwell on it, and get stuck in the quagmire of it all...which is the direct opposite to Swanny, Daisy, Shaw and co, who would brush it off, back themselves in and start again.

Right now we are playing like a bunch of wound up, uber-tight, blunt object robots...just like Nathan did, but without his class.

I noted the statistic this week of our W/L ratio when Wells plays (we win more) vs when Wells doesn't play (we win less). Clearly any level of pure class would add tremendously to our clear high levels of grunt and effort (Adams, Treloar, Maynard, Greenwood et al)

I think the much beckoned call (certainly on this board) for skill, and class and polish, has somehow not been prioritised or developed well.

As a result, if we don't apply huge pressure, or effort, we are belted. Right now we don't believe and as a result, the effort (our number one ingredient) is a little diluted.

This is symptomatically witnessed, and is at the root of many of our more obvious problems e.g. inability to move the ball, transition, link play, gain and keep momentum.

I suspect CFC would love to continue with Nathan as coach (for all his great qualities), but if the beltings keep coming, something will need to be reset.

Last point...one area of distinct negligence is the lack of 'combined footy IQ' we have put in support of Nathan. I believe we have too many average thinkers (and yes some favourite sons) contributing to the wider dialogue in support of NB - and not enough challenge and deeper thinking.

I believe other teams beat us for collective coaching nouse quite frankly.

To me, given our huge status and $$, this is inexcusable.

And for that I blame people above Nathan.

Regarding A grade departures:

Obviously there were myriad of reasons why they left.

BUT

(and I think he has even admitted this) Nathan clearly subscribed to the theory that all needed to be on the same page, with the same relentless standards (relentless was a mantra he implemented immediately in 2012).

This was in direct contrast to MM who acknowledged/accepted(?) the individual foibles both brilliant and this which needed smoothing, and never publicly aired it in the group. How he managed Didak, Thomas, Beams, Harry, Shaw, Swan, BJ...even the bullish Darren Jolly, was his greatest achievement in my mind.

Nathan on the other hand, applied well researched high team standards, and immediately challenged the trend of how we supported 'personality'

As a result, we have the effort driven soldiers who speak Nathan's language...but lack the GTFO firepower brilliance that is often coupled with a less than perfect personality.

If i analysed Nathan's athlete preferences psychologicallyI reckon he has much more comfort in dealing with those, like him, that craved success and would do anything to achieve it.

He doesn't get (or want to invest in) those who are inconsistent in their approaches.

That said, I think NB has recognised this and has done much to assume a more broadly welcoming approach to his players.

To support all of this; look at the ins v the outs in his time...

Ins: hard workers, blue collar, invested, simple (not in IQ - but in need)
eg Adams, Greenwood etc
Outs: Individual, different, X factor, complicated
e.g. the rat pack!

Is the box holds both rigid and trendy thinkers.
And I simply don't see any of them being seen as elite assistants.

If you look at Clarko, he has surrounded himself with critical, independent thinkers. As did Bomber and as does Longmire.

Nathan has his best mate and a heap of ex team mates that have learned to accept he is single minded. I believe we should be more active in appointing quality thinkers (preferably from successful programs at other clubs) rather than the Pebbles, Tarkyns and co that we have developed ourselves

I say this having great respect for NB - who is a gentleman and a scholar. he is not the issue, but those connected to him are...so who do you blame?

I can say this, one of my good friends is a coach (rival club) and he says its well known that we are weak in the box - which is not a criticism of Nathan per se.

I blame this on those in the pay scale above NB. Pert has made it impossible for Nathan to have any traction with his box...walsh in then out, eade in then out etc etc

I for one would subscribe to keeping Nathan and going on a full sweep out of everyone else...but thats probably too generous to NB
 
Regarding drafts and trades. Someone asked this question:
"
have long subscribed to the theory that ED and Pert are more the problem than Bux.

And I hope for the good of the club they go, and we can move forward.

However, our list in very unbalanced, we have far too many inside mids, and lack of key forwards, and IMO this has been the difference between 5 wins and 10 wins.

It is obvious we lack outside speed, and a couple of KPP. Who misread the way the game was going, in 2014 and 2015 we went for all inside mids, now our list is full of them?

The way I see it, we get it inside 50 more than enough, but the way our game style is set up due to lack of the right type of player, we get beaten by the well structured teams.

Someone has to take responsibility for this, is it ultimately NB or is it recurring depth?"

The Scout response:
" Well, firstly, whilst i get the chorus of wanting a spine, there have been a few factors at play as to why we haven't ended up with one...

1. KPP are few and far between
2. You probably need early picks to get them in the doors - or you are better off waiting until later in the draft to pick up project types (probably the way DH has seen it)
3. We had other shortfalls in the eyes of those making decisions
4. (This being your point) The club decided that the modern game was more about midfielders playing multiple roles

It is my belief that the list management and game style etc rests with the Football department - but so many faces in key roles have come and gone in a short time, the easiest people to blame are NB and DH. But that would be wrong IMHO.

Some would view it as a miscellany of mismanagement.

I do, as stated though, believe that Nathan has a certain type of player that he prefers to coach/teach."

And some more
" Can I just say that I don't disagree?

Posting on a board like this (and trying to do my day job!) means I have addressed some issues but not all.

I agree totally that NB needs to shoulder his share of the blame, no question.

My observations of Nathan is that his single mindedness extends into inflexibility. He sees the issues on match day, but refuses to adjust and get with the flow of the game. This is the fine line of balancing trust in your players & the game plan 'in theory' & ego & what is happening on the field. Nathan is a believer in 'staying the course' and as such, can be 10 minutes late with crucial manoeuvres IMHO

Like everyone here, I walk the line of backing Nathan in...or wanting a compete sweep out. It is not as easy as simply removing the coach and it being a new place.

As i have said in multiple posts - if Nathan goes, I would think any new coach would be wanting some clear direction of what will change around and above."

On Hine:
" Subject: Let me tell you this about DH
In reply to: Mick 's message, "Why did Hine pass on Wright in 2014 then Scout?" on 14:23 14/07/17 Fri

Even those in the recruiting group have no idea who is going to call out on Draft Day.
Perhaps Matt or Dominic, but few others.

He is known to hold his cards exceptionally tightly.

I have no TRUE idea why he passed or picked any player."

Subject: Types yes
In reply to: Mick 's message, "Surely they have an idea what type they recruit?" on 18:04 14/07/17 Fri

Actual names...no
 
Jasper84 said:
It's pretty easy when you get used to it. The key is to remember when you first learned how to use a PC. Then try and keep that happy thought in your head as you claw your eyes out.
Click to expand...
I'm starting to realise You are the second funniest poster on our board

:thumbsu:
 

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Help My Club said:
It will be indeed Dead Eye.

I believe Collingwood are a better than even money chance against WC in Melbourne, who are just insipid away from home.

There are some quarters out there who say Buckley is already cooked - if so - then the result is irrelevant on that front. I for one have no idea which way they will go. If our illustrious President still holds a candle for Buckley into 2018, then these games are very important. It won't take much for this game show host to sway the masses, as he has done successfully over the past 5 odd years. As bizarre as it sounds, 2 wins in a row might just do it.

But then again, Buckley being reappointed in 2018 may not be the worst outcome (sorry Gimp and others). Make no mistake, I don't wan't him at the club any longer than necessary however I would argue that he is the least guilty of the 4 perpetrators involved in his original and ongoing appointment.

For what it's worth, IMO hereunder is the list of guilty parties in order:

1 Pert - manipulative
2 McGuire - emotive conflicted (throw Kelly in there as well)
3 The Board - insipid self interested
4 Buckley - in my humble opinion, Buckley is only guilty of being Buckley. A square peg (himself) in a round hole (in a role that requires man management of a diverse group of personalities). Again, IMO, he was always going to fail in this role and the tangible evidence would suggest this has played out to script.

So if Buckley is removed at the end of the year (as is warranted mind you), do the other 3 parties get away scott free? I would argue that this is not right. So maybe extending Buckley will expose the other 3 parties, and rightly so, because I can almost guarantee that this list under this coach will not materially improve relative to other competing clubs out there (excepting say CG, North and Brisbane) in 2018 and beyond (naturally others will have opposing views). And hence, we will likely stagnate in the bottom 4/6 for the next few years. Maybe this is what needs to happen so as to force permanent and positive material change at Collingwood.
Click to expand...

Eddie will remain but he's good record has almost been tarnished with the club's downward spiral of late.
The rest need to go.
We are playing West Coast at Eithad and as away venues go they do win there. They beat the Bulldogs there a few weeks back. They beat North there in Round 1. We don't play well there and if it was at the G I would agree we would be in danger of winning that one.

We are sitting on 6 wins with 6 rounds to go. To break even with last season which would be a BARE minimum effort we would need to win 3/6 to arrest the slide. This of course still would not entertain finals.

I cannot see us beating Adelaide or Port Adelaide. 2 losses
We should beat North. 1 win

West Coast, Melbourne and Geelong are potentially winnable on our day but history would suggest we might win one but probably lose all 3.

7-8 wins has to spell the end !!! PLEASE !!! No more shoulda coulda woulda HE CAN'T ANYMORE
 

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ThePhantom777 said:
Regarding drafts and trades. Someone asked this question:
"
have long subscribed to the theory that ED and Pert are more the problem than Bux.

And I hope for the good of the club they go, and we can move forward.

However, our list in very unbalanced, we have far too many inside mids, and lack of key forwards, and IMO this has been the difference between 5 wins and 10 wins.

It is obvious we lack outside speed, and a couple of KPP. Who misread the way the game was going, in 2014 and 2015 we went for all inside mids, now our list is full of them?

The way I see it, we get it inside 50 more than enough, but the way our game style is set up due to lack of the right type of player, we get beaten by the well structured teams.

Someone has to take responsibility for this, is it ultimately NB or is it recurring depth?"

The Scout response:
" Well, firstly, whilst i get the chorus of wanting a spine, there have been a few factors at play as to why we haven't ended up with one...

1. KPP are few and far between
2. You probably need early picks to get them in the doors - or you are better off waiting until later in the draft to pick up project types (probably the way DH has seen it)
3. We had other shortfalls in the eyes of those making decisions
4. (This being your point) The club decided that the modern game was more about midfielders playing multiple roles

It is my belief that the list management and game style etc rests with the Football department - but so many faces in key roles have come and gone in a short time, the easiest people to blame are NB and DH. But that would be wrong IMHO.

Some would view it as a miscellany of mismanagement.

I do, as stated though, believe that Nathan has a certain type of player that he prefers to coach/teach."

And some more
" Can I just say that I don't disagree?

Posting on a board like this (and trying to do my day job!) means I have addressed some issues but not all.

I agree totally that NB needs to shoulder his share of the blame, no question.

My observations of Nathan is that his single mindedness extends into inflexibility. He sees the issues on match day, but refuses to adjust and get with the flow of the game. This is the fine line of balancing trust in your players & the game plan 'in theory' & ego & what is happening on the field. Nathan is a believer in 'staying the course' and as such, can be 10 minutes late with crucial manoeuvres IMHO

Like everyone here, I walk the line of backing Nathan in...or wanting a compete sweep out. It is not as easy as simply removing the coach and it being a new place.

As i have said in multiple posts - if Nathan goes, I would think any new coach would be wanting some clear direction of what will change around and above."

On Hine:
" Subject: Let me tell you this about DH
In reply to: Mick 's message, "Why did Hine pass on Wright in 2014 then Scout?" on 14:23 14/07/17 Fri

Even those in the recruiting group have no idea who is going to call out on Draft Day.
Perhaps Matt or Dominic, but few others.

He is known to hold his cards exceptionally tightly.

I have no TRUE idea why he passed or picked any player."

Subject: Types yes
In reply to: Mick 's message, "Surely they have an idea what type they recruit?" on 18:04 14/07/17 Fri

Actual names...no
Click to expand...

I've long thought that the annual change in football director has led to instability in the direction of our recruiting. Scouts comments make me feel validated in that view. It's really important this off season that we secure Walsh in that role for the medium term. Although I suspect it will play out differently.
 
The Sherriff said:
Not blaming the players - just saying we're learning a game style that physically and mentally the players are working towards and just can't execute 100% of the time. When they can do it 80-90% of the time, we have a finals side. And I don't think it's that far away TBH.
Click to expand...
That sums it up doesn't it and that is the problem, it is very difficult to execute over 4 quarters let alone the course of the season on top of the supposed stubbornness of bucks. You may or may not know that Ben Hart a former assistant of bucks has stated this publicly and externally it looks like it's "my way or the highway" situation and that's already a fail before it begins. If that is true I'd rather he'd use the strengths of the players and build a game plan around that instead of swimming against the tide but it seems he will not change his ways and that will be his undoing
 
Jasper84 said:
Last time I was there, I couldn't tell if I was discussing Chris Egan or stealing launch codes from Desert Storm.
Click to expand...

Maybe you were discussing Chris Egan's stealing launch codes from Desert Storm.

I'm not convinced though that Chris Egan could spell "launch codes".
 
Saintly Viewed said:
And supporters believe there is an easy one minute fix.

I'd say there is a 15 point step fix

Each step is getting a better player.

Better players better results.
Click to expand...
Or developing players to be better players; we've all seen successes of teams that are developed properly - think 99. A good coaching panel and a good list management team have profound effects on a flailing team which we are at the moment and you could argue that our development and management is currently and has been below par. Not saying that all of our list can improve dramatically but I'd argue that you could say that for the bulk of our list; that along with some good KPP recruitment would go a long way to improving our current situation dramatically
 
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