The 2017 Rolling All-Australian Thread

[eaglespremiers]

I did watch your video. Did you watch the video I posted?
Many of Gawn's taps are pinpointed strait to position in set plays allowing teammates to run strait on and kick goals. This happens weekly.

I wouldn't get too bothered about supporters preferring their own player (and I say this being the person who made that Naitanui video linked to).
Gawn is an exceptional ruck and as an all-around footballer has very few weaknesses. I have no doubt you guys miss Gawn just as much as we miss Naitanui, although your mids seem to be compensating for his loss better than ours.

 

[Tasfut]

So many players are having great seasons. This will definitely be one of the hardest years to pick the team, so many deserving players are going to be left out.

 

[Damon_3388]

Jacobs is my current ruck

Sam Jacobs is severely overrated. He gets a bit of footy in general play, and has good raw hitout numbers, but his actual ruckwork (both in terms of hitouts to advantage, and around the stoppages after the tap) isn't really that good.

 

[Super Hans]

Laird - Tarrant - Roberton
Yeo - Hurley - Docherty
Kelly - Selwood - Merrett
Dahlhaus - Cameron - Martin
Betts - Franklin - Greene
Jacobs - Sloane - Dangerfield


Bontempelli, Ebert, Pendlebury, Mitchell

 

[Blackas87]

I wouldn't get too bothered about supporters preferring their own player (and I say this being the person who made that Naitanui video linked to).
Gawn is an exceptional ruck and as an all-around footballer has very few weaknesses. I have no doubt you guys miss Gawn just as much as we miss Naitanui, although your mids seem to be compensating for his loss better than ours.

Great video mate

Both players are hugely important to our teams.

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

Bias or not, Ryder has been the best ruck this year

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

But there is a hitouts to advantage stat that Gawn dominates over the past 2 years

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

If he dominates like you say, could you provide a side by side comparison of Naitanui vs Gawn in that stat? All I can find is raw hitout to advantage numbers which Gawn obviously wins as he spends a lot more time in the ruck than Naitanui, but I recall seeing a champion data stat during the year last year showing that of ruck contestes attended, Naitanui wins the highest % and has the highest % to advantage.

And beside the point anyway, the raw hitouts to advantage stat doesn't address what I said about Naitanui being the best tap in the competition, a hitout to advantage simply means it is tapped into the possession of one of their team mates, It doesn't take into account other things like their positioning or hitting them at pace etc.

 

[LeverPuller]

Tell you what, I'm super-excited to see Gawn v Ryder later in the season.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Laird - Tarrant - Roberton
Yeo - Hurley - Docherty
Kelly - Selwood - Merrett
Dahlhaus - Cameron - Martin
Betts - Franklin - Greene
Jacobs - Sloane - Dangerfield


Bontempelli, Ebert, Pendlebury, Mitchell

Dahlaus has 3 goals and 5 goal assists on the season. If you want him in the team you need to find another spot than the HFF line, he doesn't belong anywhere near the front half.

 

[cotter101]

Can Rocky still make it despite missing two games through injury in a tough year for spots? Sits equal third in overall clearances with 79(only 4 behind the leader) despite missing two games through injury and a bye last week(which obviously works itself out).

From his 8 games played he is averaging 30 disposals, 10 clearances, 8.2 tackles, 15.1 contested possessions, 6 marks and 5 I50's a game. He's actually been pretty damaging this year. We've missed him sorely.

Bloody tight year for spots though.

 

[#gosaintas]

Laird - Tarrant - Roberton
Yeo - Hurley - Docherty
Kelly - Selwood - Merrett
Dahlhaus - Cameron - Martin
Betts - Franklin - Greene
Jacobs - Sloane - Dangerfield


Bontempelli, Ebert, Pendlebury, Mitchell

Out Bonti In Seb Ross
Out Dahlhaus In any fwd who kicks goals

 

[Trav 20]

I might say the same to you about naitanui. I watch most games every week and see plenty of Gawn, he is definitely one of the better tap artists, but I don't think you can dispute Naitanui's tapping mastery.

There's a paywall on your link by the way

The following was as at round 10 2016.

It shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone than Max Gawn leads all hitout to advantage measures. He ranks second overall for ruck contests attended and wins 52% of these contests — the second-highest percentage of any player behind Nic Naitanui (61%).

Gawn has won 30 more hitouts to advantage than any other ruckman in the league, recording a hitout to advantage rate of 37%, the best of the top 22.

He is rivalled by Naitanui and Todd Goldstein who rank second and third respectively. Shane Mumford ranks fourth, with Tom Hickey isn’t too far behind in fifth place.

PLAYER HIT OUTS TO ADVANTAGE
Max Gawn 150
Nic Naitanui 120
Todd Goldstein 111
Shane Mumford 108
Tom Hickey 99
Sam Jacobs 90
Shaun Hampson 77
Kurt Tippett 70
Matthew Leuenberger 65
Stefan Martin 65

Game, set, match.

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

The following was as at round 10 2016.

It shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone than Max Gawn leads all hitout to advantage measures. He ranks second overall for ruck contests attended and wins 52% of these contests — the second-highest percentage of any player behind Nic Naitanui (61%).

Gawn has won 30 more hitouts to advantage than any other ruckman in the league, recording a hitout to advantage rate of 37%, the best of the top 22.

He is rivalled by Naitanui and Todd Goldstein who rank second and third respectively. Shane Mumford ranks fourth, with Tom Hickey isn’t too far behind in fifth place.

PLAYER HIT OUTS TO ADVANTAGE
Max Gawn 150
Nic Naitanui 120
Todd Goldstein 111
Shane Mumford 108
Tom Hickey 99
Sam Jacobs 90
Shaun Hampson 77
Kurt Tippett 70
Matthew Leuenberger 65
Stefan Martin 65

Naitanui got to more ruck contests yet Gawn had more hitouts to advantage by 30.

Game, set, match.

It would be game set match if naitanui did actually attend more contests, but he didn't. Naitanui wins 61% of contests that he attends, compared to 52% for Gawn. Surely you could figure out that didn't mean % of ruck contests attended, last I checked melbourne don't have a 2nd ruck who rucks a few % less than Gawn

 

[Bardo State]

The following was as at round 10 2016.

Naitanui got to more ruck contests yet Gawn had more hitouts to advantage by 30.

Game, set, match.

I don't think what you quoted actually says that. It says that Gawn is second in number of ruck contests contested (behind someone, unsure who, definitely not Naitanui) and second in contest win % (at 52%, well behind Naitanui's 61%). So it means that Gawn was getting to more contests but Natanui was winning more often when he was there.

Now, if Gawn was winning 52% of ruck taps up to round 10 last year, it means he had won 407/783 ruck contests. That means his overall hit-out to advantage rate was 150/783 = 19.2%

Similarly, if Naitanui was winning 62% of ruck taps up to round 10 last year, it means he had won 358/577 ruck contests. That means Naitanui's overall hit-out to advantage rate was 120/577 = 20.8%

So the sheer volume of contests Gawn was getting to meant he was better than Naitanui in totals, but ever so slightly behind in HO to adv ratio. However this does mean that when Gawn wins a tap, it's more likely to go to advantage than when Naitanui wins a tap (36.9% for Gawn, 33.5% for Natanui).

Another aspect that makes Naitanui so brutal is his clearance work compared to other ruckman.

Up to round 10 last year, he had 7.1 clearances/100 ruck contests. Gawn had 4.0 clearances/100 ruck contests, almost half that of Naitanui.

When you use avg TOG% instead of ruck contests, the figures become Natanui 6.0 clearances/10% TOG%, Gawn 3.7 clearances/10% TOG%, again almost half.

All of these figures were taken for up to the completion of round 10, 2016 as this is the period for which you provided hit-out to advantage stats. It is also arguably the best period of Gawn's career and not that of Naitanui. I think what these figures show, at least over this period is that Naitanui is more damaging when on the ground/in a contest, but Gawn stays on the ground for so much longer that the sheer volume of minutes he plays and contests he gets to make him arguably comparable to/better than Naitanui on the whole (for this period).

 

[Trav 20]

It would be game set match if naitanui did actually attend more contests, but he didn't. Naitanui wins 61% of contests that he attends, compared to 52% for Gawn. Surely you could figure out that didn't mean % of ruck contests attended, last I checked melbourne don't have a 2nd ruck who rucks a few % less than Gawn

Ah yes, a bit of self ownership there

Nonetheless, his percentage hitout to advantage was superior to all other ruckmen.

How bout game ?

 

[Trav 20]

I don't think what you quoted actually says that. It says that Gawn is second in number of ruck contests contested (behind someone, unsure who, definitely not Naitanui) and second in contest win % (at 52%, well behind Naitanui's 61%). So it means that Gawn was getting to more contests but Natanui was winning more often when he was there.

Now, if Gawn was winning 52% of ruck taps up to round 10 last year, it means he had won 407/783 ruck contests. That means his overall hit-out to advantage rate was 150/783 = 19.2%

Similarly, if Naitanui was winning 62% of ruck taps up to round 10 last year, it means he had won 358/577 ruck contests. That means Naitanui's overall hit-out to advantage rate was 120/577 = 20.8%

So the sheer volume of contests Gawn was getting to meant he was better than Naitanui in totals, but ever so slightly behind in HO to adv ratio. However this does mean that when Gawn wins a tap, it's more likely to go to advantage than when Naitanui wins a tap (36.9% for Gawn, 33.5% for Natanui).

Another aspect that makes Naitanui so brutal is his clearance work compared to other ruckman.

Up to round 10 last year, he had 7.1 clearances/100 ruck contests. Gawn had 4.0 clearances/100 ruck contests, almost half that of Naitanui.

When you use avg TOG% instead of ruck contests, the figures become Natanui 6.0 clearances/10% TOG%, Gawn 3.7 clearances/10% TOG%, again almost half.

All of these figures were taken for up to the completion of round 10, 2016 as this is the period for which you provided hit-out to advantage stats. It is also arguably the best period of Gawn's career and not that of Naitanui. I think what these figures show, at least over this period is that Naitanui is more damaging when on the ground/in a contest, but Gawn stays on the ground for so much longer that the sheer volume of minutes he plays and contests he gets to make him arguably comparable to/better than Naitanui on the whole (for this period).

Sorted.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Laird - Rance - Roberton
Yeo - Hurley - Docherty
Kelly - Selwood - Martin
Dahlhaus - Cameron - Ben Brown
Betts - Franklin - Greene
Kreuzer - Sloane - Dangerfield


Ebert, Pendlebury, M.Murphy, Wines

 

[Donakebab]

Who gives a flying **** about Gawn and Naitanui. Neither are even a remote chance of making the AA side so any discussion about them here is irrelevant. Take it somewhere else.

 

[Bardo State]

Updated Player Ratings team

 

[Trav 20]

Updated Player Ratings team

There's no way Petracca would be even close, which shows how flawed these ratings can be.

 

[Scotland]

Sam Jacobs is severely overrated. He gets a bit of footy in general play, and has good raw hitout numbers, but his actual ruckwork (both in terms of hitouts to advantage, and around the stoppages after the tap) isn't really that good.

Isn't that what you want in a ruckman?

Nic Naitanui is overrated for not getting a lot of the ball in general play.

 

[Super Hans]

Dahlaus has 3 goals and 5 goal assists on the season. If you want him in the team you need to find another spot than the HFF line, he doesn't belong anywhere near the front half.

Besides Greene and Betts I don't think there's been a standout small/med fwd, so put Dahlhaus and Martin on the flanks.

 

[Super Hans]

Out Bonti In Seb Ross
Out Dahlhaus In any fwd who kicks goals

No matter how many times you say it bro Seb Ross isn't better than Bontempelli.

 

[Baird]

Spin the roulette wheel for the All Australian ruck at the moment.

Candidates are Grundy, Kreuzer, Mumford, Ryder, Martin, Sandilands, McEvoy and Jacobs.

I'll try and rate them using a 5,4,3,2,1 method.

Disposals - 5 Martin, 4 Grundy, 3 Jacobs, 2 Kreuzer, 1 McEvoy
Hitouts - 5 Sandilands, 4 Mumford, 3 Jacobs, 2 Martin, 1 Grundy
Marks - 5 Jacobs, 4 Grundy, 3 Martin, 2 McEvoy, 1 Ryder
Clearances - 5 Martin, 4 Grundy, 3 Ryder, 2 Kreuzer, 1 Sandilands
Tackles - 5 Kreuzer, 4 Mumford, 3 Grundy, 2 McEvoy, 1 Jacobs

Totals - 16 Grundy, 15 Martin, 11 Jacobs, 9 Kreuzer, 8 Mumford, 6 Sandilands, 5 McEvoy, 4 Ryder.

Before you rip me apart, I know this doesn't tell the whole story. But it's interesting nonetheless.

So Grundy is ranked second for marks out of the mentioned Ruckman? Surprising if so

 

[Damon_3388]

Isn't that what you want in a ruckman?

No, you want their actual ruckwork (tap work and stoppage work on the deck - clearances, tackles, 1%ers) to be their best attribute, as that's what will help the midfield around them function best as a unit, otherwise what is the point of them?

The idea that "effective ruckwork" is getting 15-20 disposals, or taking a couple of marks on the wing, or kicking the odd goal, is one of the worst misconceptions in footy. It's a handy bonus if they do those things, but it's got little to do with their actual role.