Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread

[Christou2Kouta]

What I like with Stocker is that he’s someone who is accustomed to getting his hands on the pill 25 times a game. He’s not just an athlete that we have to teach how to play, as we’ve had a few of those over the years, and apart from Kouta (what a man), not many of them ever learn how to get involved on a consistent basis.
Having said that, I expect him to play most of the year in the VFL, it will be interesting to see what he learns from someone like Wilson over the year.


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[AndyLucimitis]

Good chance for debut before round 6 or so, like Fisher, O'Brien, et al...

I hear other clubs have Stocker set to debut by Round 20. ....


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[HARKER]

I think and certainly hope you are right. Injuries are a part of footy and there will be times where players are injured or rested and that might open the door. I think versatility is the key for a lot of players.

Things I can see us taking a liking to this season:

Midfielders who perform well statistically. I don't think it will be enough to come into the side and just do a role and negate, I think we will want to be winning some ball.

Good skills. If you fumble and can't hit targets you're gone or half out the door whereas if you're neat your either in or half in at least.

Versatility. If you can play a number of roles then I think that gives the MC good grounds to pick you. I can't remember the last player who played half forward and center and did it reasonably well, I think it may have been Brock McLean. I think if you can play forward and midfield, inside and outside and half back for example and at a good level it's going to be hard to be kept out.

I think if you're a one position player then you're going to have to be pretty good.

I think Stocker will spend some time at half forward and midfield and developed as such but if he comes on early and he just might then I can see him coming in ahead of some who we didn't expect him to be ahead of. But this can be said for a number of players.

For the reasons you outlined, that all seems quite possible.
If memory serves me right, Hopper and Kennedy also spent time forward at GWS early on.
Kennedy has since left and come to us and now it seems as though Hopper has the opportunity to become a front-liner.

Given Stocker is a stoppage specialist, he'll obviously be behind Cripps and then likely, Kennedy & Setterfield.
You can't have just grunt in the middle as you need the speed and tricks also, hence Stocker may have to ply his trade elsewhere in the short term, at least.
Yes, we did rate Stocker highly but remember that SOS rated Setterfield best in his draft class also.

So much to open up isn't there?

 

[Penetrator]

There may be some unfortunate circumstances to have to come about for Stocker to get games this year.
His situation sort of reminds me of Hopper & Kennedy having to break into the GWS side, in that they were primarily mids that had to find another way of getting into the main team by playing other roles in the most.

If Stocker is a front line mid this year, he would either be performing well above expectations, or maybe we just have too many injuries.
Right now, I see too many brute-type mids to be in front of him.

Really see Stocker playing in the forward line a lot more than the midfield in his first couple of years and being a dangerous option along the lines of Dustin Martin and Jordan De goey. See below a few of the comments from Bishop pre draft about Stocker.

Stocker’s ability to rest deep in the forward-line and hit the scoreboard was also particularly notable in Round 3 of the TAC Cup, drawing comparisons to Richmond champion Dustin Martin as a result.

The midfielder’s versatility, on show when resting at full-forward, is another feature likely to catch the attention of multiple clubs ahead of the 2018 draft. The type of player that makes opposition deference nervous, he presented a constant threat when deployed out of the goal-square.

 

[Mr_Plow]

Really see Stocker playing in the forward line a lot more than the midfield in his first couple of years and being a dangerous option along the lines of Dustin Martin and Jordan De goey. See below a few of the comments from Bishop pre draft about Stocker.

Stocker’s ability to rest deep in the forward-line and hit the scoreboard was also particularly notable in Round 3 of the TAC Cup, drawing comparisons to Richmond champion Dustin Martin as a result.

The midfielder’s versatility, on show when resting at full-forward, is another feature likely to catch the attention of multiple clubs ahead of the 2018 draft. The type of player that makes opposition deference nervous, he presented a constant threat when deployed out of the goal-square.

Nice find.

Stocker has that naturally powerful build with the strength and acceleration to panic defenders.

This will likely be further developed and I can see him being a medium-sized forward threat, in addition to a stoppage specialist.

 

[gbatman]

For the reasons you outlined, that all seems quite possible.
If memory serves me right, Hopper and Kennedy also spent time forward at GWS early on.
Kennedy has since left and come to us and now it seems as though Hopper has the opportunity to become a front-liner.

Given Stocker is a stoppage specialist, he'll obviously be behind Cripps and then likely, Kennedy & Setterfield.
You can't have just grunt in the middle as you need the speed and tricks also, hence Stocker may have to ply his trade elsewhere in the short term, at least.
Yes, we did rate Stocker highly but remember that SOS rated Setterfield best in his draft class also.

So much to open up isn't there?

Yeah that all sounds on the money. Stocker isn't a player I would type cast, if you're any good at playing midfield then that's where you play as a junior, doesn't mean he can't do other things. Unlike so many of our inside specialist of the past he isn't as slow as a wet week, in fact from his highlights he looks rather quick and agile which suggests if he can run and he's got good skills then there's no reason he can't step into a more outside position.

Not all onballers can step out and play on the outside or in the forward line but if they have pace and they have some real quality then they are really quite suited in this role as we have seen with guys like Dangerfield and Martin who are big strong guys who are very good on the ball but are equally as good when playing forward.

I'd certainly be looking at a kid and developing them by what they can do athletically as much or more than what roles and positions they have played in the junior system.

I think it's good player development to push players to play multiple positions even if they aren't great at it to begin with.

If these players can get fit and stay fit we're certainly bringing in a lot of players SOS has rated.

There's a number of reasons why a guy like Stocker who may be in the squad but not in the 22 might get a game. Injuries and resting players are one of them but form as well. Young best 22 players can drop off or we might say gee we need a decent half forward flanker or half back and perhaps Stocker or someone just outside the 22 has a good game or two in that role and they come in for whoever so there's plenty to play out here. I'm expecting some surprises in the JLT, there could be some poor form from expected best 22 players and some red hot form from someone unexpected.

Seeing what these guys can do is going to be really exciting. Hopefully there is plenty on show.

 

[Doro]

Nice find.

Stocker has that naturally powerful build with the strength and acceleration to panic defenders.

This will likely be further developed and I can see him being a medium-sized forward threat, in addition to a stoppage specialist.

How is Stocker in the air? The Martin comparison suggests he must be fairly strong?

 

[Mr_Plow]

How is Stocker in the air? The Martin comparison suggests he must be fairly strong?

His draft highlights package had some decent grabs IIRC, would need to watch again though.

 

[BluStreak]

Could stoker be our T Green?

 

[Blue and Blue]

He’s not just an athlete that we have to teach how to play, as we’ve had a few of those over the years, and apart from Kouta (what a man), not many of them ever learn how to get involved on a consistent basis.

That is such a good observation. I agree entirely, been saying it for years. Athletes can run and run and run....oh but give me a Lance Whitnall who can run to the exact right place (while them athletes run in circles)..and mark..and KICK!

 

[Brutalitops]

That is such a good observation. I agree entirely, been saying it for years. Athletes can run and run and run....oh but give me a Lance Whitnall who can run to the exact right place (while them athletes run in circles)..and mark..and KICK!

It starts right...

IT SWINGS BACK

 

[HARKER]

The midfielder’s versatility, on show when resting at full-forward, is another feature likely to catch the attention of multiple clubs ahead of the 2018 draft. The type of player that makes opposition deference nervous, he presented a constant threat when deployed out of the goal-square.

Give me players that make opponents nervous in the forward 50, every time.
Charlie, Harry and Mitch is a terrific 'tall' platform to launch from. Whether the rest be medium forwards or small....as long as opponents are worried to be made fools of we'll have something to work with.

 

[skadoosh]

Especially being able to kick off both feet. Doesn't matter which pocket he's in. He doesn't need that extra 2 seconds to straighten up to get back into his preferred foot. Footy is a game of seconds and cms and the ability to kick properly off both sides is enormous.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Could stoker be our T Green?

Probably more like a caddy

 

[Heres Waite]

Especially being able to kick off both feet. Doesn't matter which pocket he's in. He doesn't need that extra 2 seconds to straighten up to get back into his preferred foot. Footy is a game of seconds and cms and the ability to kick properly off both sides is enormous.

Absolutely agree. Isn’t it odd that in late 2010’s the majority of players haven’t mastered the art of kicking off both feet? I even remember when I was growing up, that my coaches always had drills that we only could kick off our opposite foot. It doesn’t seem to be as much of a focus these days. I’ve noticed that players are much better at kicking around corners and dribble kicks now though, and maybe that’s why there is not as much as a focus on being duel sided. As you pointed out though those seconds are precious and I think Liam Stocker is going to show the value of players who are dual sided again.

 

[pinot]

add Ben Sylvagni to the mongrel list.

Damn Big Ben is cut like a 21 year old already. He is going to be a beast.

 

[COBALT BLUE]

What I like with Stocker is that he’s someone who is accustomed to getting his hands on the pill 25 times a game. He’s not just an athlete that we have to teach how to play, as we’ve had a few of those over the years, and apart from Kouta (what a man), not many of them ever learn how to get involved on a consistent basis.
Having said that, I expect him to play most of the year in the VFL, it will be interesting to see what he learns from someone like Wilson over the year.


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Thats what we want ...hands on ball 25 times a match...
Fisher and Samo just building to that now and Kennedy as well
Dow OBrein probably Walsh as well wont get anywhere near that
Will take a year or two to build to that........
Stoker has plenty of time in the VFL to build up.and we see what he can dish up
Walsh might just play AFL round 1 ....but he might only gather a dozen possessions in his early games
And that will cost us.........................so we might see less of this sort of thing this year as we try and move away from the bottom of the Ladder in 2019

 

[thylacine60]

It starts right...

IT SWINGS BACK

"oh, you'd wanna be on the blues now...........!!"

 

[Dadda Dave]

"oh, you'd wanna be on the blues now don't you reckon Lingy...........!!"

Is that you Bruce..

 

[thylacine60]

drew

 

[Blue and Blue]

Probably more like a caddy

T caddy...love it.......

 

[Coops93]

Absolutely agree. Isn’t it odd that in late 2010’s the majority of players haven’t mastered the art of kicking off both feet? I even remember when I was growing up, that my coaches always had drills that we only could kick off our opposite foot. It doesn’t seem to be as much of a focus these days. I’ve noticed that players are much better at kicking around corners and dribble kicks now though, and maybe that’s why there is not as much as a focus on being duel sided. As you pointed out though those seconds are precious and I think Liam Stocker is going to show the value of players who are dual sided again.

Once you reach a certain age it's very difficult to learn. Unless it's something nurtured and encouraged at a young age it's an uphill battle. There's almost no chance of it happening in adulthood, which is why despite training every day for the better part of 20 years Kade Simpson still only has a left foot.

 

[mediumsizered]

I love it when Soapy V gets excited... bring on the season already!

It happens a lot. He is even more optimistic than me & that is saying something.

 

[CJMB]

Probably more like a caddy

Parker is the guy he reminds me of. His stature/physique is definitely a part of it, but also the way he moves and being a combative midfielder who can play forward, sounds good to me. Would be a great outcome if he could hit Parker levels.

Reckon, like Parker, he spends a fair bit of time forward and probably starts his senior career as a bit of a flanker who gets the odd on-ball rotation.

Feels like we're going to have a lot of them... genuine midfielders playing on the flanks and rotating through the middle. As opposed to years gone where we seemed to just like picking flankers and hope they would become midfielders.

 

[Macca43]

Nice find.

Stocker has that naturally powerful build with the strength and acceleration to panic defenders.

This will likely be further developed and I can see him being a medium-sized forward threat, in addition to a stoppage specialist.

Setterfield's TAC cup highlights show he can be a dangerous forward as well, Kennedy is reportedly very good overhead and if Cripps gets his goal kicking sorted he will be a dangerous option when resting forward, throw in SPS, Dow, Fisher and Murphy and we have a dangerous mix.