The Liberal Party - How long? - Part 2

[Stan_Darsh72]

The people who benefited from the Rodent years are dying out and the people who are paying for the cost of his treachery are coming into the demographic ascendancy. The Libs should keep wheeling him out at every opportunity just to remind us all of that.

The moment Rudd came in my school got new gyms, new laptops and improvements across the whole school and it would not have just been my school that would have seen the same.

Millenials are now the biggest voting block and the Libs know they have spent the best part of 30 years neglecting us.

 

[Festerz]

A trainwreck performance by NSW Liberal Senator Andrew Bragg on ABC Insiders this morning. But he did made two bold statements...

1. The Liberals exiting from their commitment to Net Zero “is not in the realm of the possible”

2. The Liberals "are not fringe dwellers". (has he looked at an electoral map of Australia recently?)

Seems that the Shadow Minister for Deregulation & Productivity + Housing & Homelessness has added 'Alternative Reality' to his list of shadow portfolios.

 

[nut]

A trainwreck performance by NSW Liberal Senator Andrew Bragg on ABC Insiders this morning. But he did made two bold statements...

1. The Liberals exiting from their commitment to Net Zero “is not in the realm of the possible”

2. The Liberals "are not fringe dwellers". (has he looked at an electoral map of Australia recently?)

Seems that the Shadow Minister for Deregulation & Productivity + Housing & Homelessness has added 'Alternative Reality' to his list of shadow portfolios.

And he is meant to be of the sensible ones…. They just have no talent at all.

 

[Festerz]

And he is meant to be of the sensible ones…. They just have no talent at all.

Well on the program this morning he made it clear that he would resign from the Coalition frontbench if his party walked away from the Paris Agreement.

So at least he has that going for him. I expect he knows full well what's coming.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

A trainwreck performance by NSW Liberal Senator Andrew Bragg on ABC Insiders this morning. But he did made two bold statements...

1. The Liberals exiting from their commitment to Net Zero “is not in the realm of the possible”

2. The Liberals "are not fringe dwellers". (has he looked at an electoral map of Australia recently?)

Seems that the Shadow Minister for Deregulation & Productivity + Housing & Homelessness has added 'Alternative Reality' to his list of shadow portfolios.

Libs really so struggle with the demographic shifts that have happened.

Millenials and Gen z aint buying their lies, aint buying their lack of policies and let's be real the libs are now the party of old people, wealthy oligarchs and religious nutters.

 

[schneebly111]

Well on the program this morning he made it clear that he would resign from the Coalition frontbench if his party walked away from the Paris Agreement.

So at least he has that going for him. I expect he knows full well what's coming.

Some in the party room will be over the moon if that happens. They want all the “wokes” like Bragg gone. An ideologically “pure” party.

 

[RedOrWhite]

A trainwreck performance by NSW Liberal Senator Andrew Bragg on ABC Insiders this morning. But he did made two bold statements...

1. The Liberals exiting from their commitment to Net Zero “is not in the realm of the possible”

2. The Liberals "are not fringe dwellers". (has he looked at an electoral map of Australia recently?)

Seems that the Shadow Minister for Deregulation & Productivity + Housing & Homelessness has added 'Alternative Reality' to his list of shadow portfolios.

The Libs are really falling to pieces, I mean the fact they have a shadow minister for deregulation and homelessness should speak volumes.

 

[schneebly111]

1. The Liberals exiting from their commitment to Net Zero “is not in the realm of the possible”

“Not in the realm of the possible”?

That looks by far the most likely option at the moment.

My bet is it’ll be a formal withdrawal from Net Zero to save her job, but when she’ll come up with some pissweak plan to pretend to city voters she is doing something. Neither side will be satisfied.

 

[Festerz]

“Not in the realm of the possible”?

That looks by far the most likely option at the moment.

My bet is it’ll be a formal withdrawal from Net Zero to save her job, but when she’ll come up with some pissweak plan to pretend to city voters she is doing something. Neither side will be satisfied.

I think it was Bernard Keane of Crikey who summed up the Liberal position on Net Zero best:

'One of the characteristics of the Coalition’s approach to climate over the decades is that it has only ever been a political issue, not a policy issue. No-one who led the Liberals, with the exception of Malcolm Turnbull, actually thought the climate crisis was either real or worth doing anything about.'

Keane highlighted that during the Howard years, the Coalition weaponised modelling from the Australian Bureau of Agricultural and Resource Economics and Sciences not to inform policy but to use it as a political attack on Labor. But as soon as Rudd (building on the work of Al Gore) was able to use the science in framing a facts based argument around the threat climate change posed to our economic and societal future, Howard committed to a comprehensive carbon trading scheme - not because he or his government had any intention of delivering on it but solely because it was a political weapon to stop Rudd gaining policy traction.

As Keane points out, there is significant room for policy alternatives to what Labor is proposing - one based on market based incentives for example that you would think would align squarely with Liberal Party principles. But the fact is that the LNP are terminally addicted to using climate change purely for short term political gain, even when recent elections and polling show unequivocally that there is no longer any electoral gain to be had from it.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Because the union movement and the ALP aren't merely aligned. The ALP is the political wing of the union movement.

And the UAP (the Lyons one not the Palmer one) failed in part because it was too close to business, so Menzies pursued a mass membership party which was fantastic for a long time but no longer.

The following statement is open to criticism because of how the Liberal Party has behaved, and I'll leave that criticism unresponded from me.

The Liberal Party, if it because aligned officially with professional bodies, would cease being a party of values. It would become a party of interests like every other political party in Australia. The downside of actually being a party of values is you cannot go to any specific group and say "we will work for you, so help us get elected". They would know that eventually we wouldn't have their backs on a specific issue because it wouldn't align with universal values.

All this is really hard to keep going at the best of times, and times when mass membership organisations are crumbling and organisations like the Brethren are seeking to make the most of opportunities are not the best of times.

So that is why the Liberal Party has sought no official alignment.

The Liberal party has been a party of interests for my entire voting life. Corporate lobbyists and special interest groups are to the Liberals what the union movement is to the ALP.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

The Liberal party has been a party of interests for my entire voting life. Corporate lobbyists and special interest groups are to the Liberals what the union movement is to the ALP.

And "liberal values" have always been a myth, if you have dosh then libs love you, if you are working class then go **** yourself while we gorge on Gina's wealth

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Libs really so struggle with the demographic shifts that have happened.

Millenials and Gen z aint buying their lies, aint buying their lack of policies and let's be real the libs are now the party of old people, wealthy oligarchs and religious nutters.

What worries me is their backers aren’t used to not getting their wish lists fulfilled quick smart.

We’re either going to see Labor become even more craven and beholden to the rich and powerful, or we’re going to see some seriously undemocratic actions by some very powerful people who were always happy to see their wishes fulfilled by a democratically elected government, but have no qualms about finding ways around our pesky democracy if it’s not delivering for them.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

It's depressing and yet unsurprising that the Liberal Party is yet again debating climate change.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

What worries me is their backers aren’t used to not getting their wish lists fulfilled quick smart.

We’re either going to see Labor become even more craven and beholden to the rich and powerful, or we’re going to see some seriously undemocratic actions by some very powerful people who were always happy to see their wishes fulfilled by a democratically elected government, but have no qualms about finding ways around our pesky democracy if it’s not delivering for them.

The smart backers have already gone net zero.

Libs would rather abandon our political system over making policies that are good for millenials and Gen z

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

It's depressing and yet unsurprising that the Liberal Party is yet again debating climate change.

Libs are a passive party, it takes a labor government to actually govern and make reforms in their time in power to actually make a few years of lib government to work.

Any half smart lib should praise 4 people John Curtin ( won the war and told pig iron Bob to **** himself), Bob Hawke and Paul Keating (made this nation to not fail and yet the war criminal rat and campaigner Costello still ****ed it up) and lastly Wayne Swann (avoided the gfc and yet the libs once again ****ed this nation up)

A old Australian party full of good time weak men and women who slutted out for blow/champers/rent boys.

 

[Cyg1992]

Libs really so struggle with the demographic shifts that have happened.

Millenials and Gen z aint buying their lies, aint buying their lack of policies and let's be real the libs are now the party of old people, wealthy oligarchs and religious nutters.

Totally agree.

The coalition offer little to nothing for anyone under 50 and anyone 30 and under has had their futures completely compromised by them.

The only people in my peer age group who vote for the coalition are either those who are doing extremely well for themselves and/or racists.
The latter category have now mostly moved on to either PHON or other cooker parties.

 

[RedOrWhite]

Libs are a passive party, it takes a labor government to actually govern and make reforms in their time in power to actually make a few years of lib government to work.

Any half smart lib should praise 4 people John Curtin ( won the war and told pig iron Bob to **** himself), Bob Hawke and Paul Keating (made this nation to not fail and yet the war criminal rat and campaigner Costello still ****ed it up) and lastly Wayne Swann (avoided the gfc and yet the libs once again ****ed this nation up)

A old Australian party full of good time weak men and women who slutted out for blow/champers/rent boys.

It's now Labor that has become largely passive and attached to the status quo, while the Libs try to drag us back to the 50's

 

[geoffjennings79]

For a guy that's trying so hard to get noticed I don't think Antic's doing a particularly good job, it's not like he's even getting results either.

His surname is an apt description of his political skill set.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

"Faith, reason, inquiry, debate, persuasion" is not how I saw Kirk's (heavily edited, totally rigged) YouTube debates.

Not to mention faith and reason are fundamentally incompatible.

 

[jim boy]

Yep…. start a complete new Party… The Moderate Party.
Problem is Labor has taken up most of this space.
What we actually need is a party
Left of Labor that doesnt have the baggage the greens have.
A Democratic Socialist Party.

Nah, Labor's union ties will always entrench them on the left - while Labor has been quick to occupy the middle ground thanks to the Libs departing it, that union aspect is just so central to the DNA that it will always be perceived as leftist. Liberals are like a house that has become seriously termite infested - you can kid yourself that you can get rid of them, but it is just impossible. Australia, any democracy, needs realistic alternatives and that needs to be a house that is not termite infested, and has termite protection.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Yep…. start a complete new Party… The Moderate Party.
Problem is Labor has taken up most of this space.
What we actually need is a party
Left of Labor that doesnt have the baggage the greens have.
A Democratic Socialist Party.

The major parties and the media will claim the new party hate Australia, freedom, barbecues, puppies and kittens just like they've done to the Greens.

 

[The Punter]

The major parties and the media will claim the new party hate Australia, freedom, barbecues, puppies and kittens just like they've done to the Greens.

Under the proposal quoted...

*major party

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Under the proposal quoted...

*major party

I'm referring to the part about a new democratic socialist party, not the moderate Liberal offshoot.

 

[The Punter]

I'm referring to the part about a new democratic socialist party, not the moderate Liberal offshoot.

Either way, my strong view is Labor and Liberal are the last two "major parties". This is preferable for many.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

We’re either going to see Labor become even more craven and beholden to the rich and powerful, or we’re going to see some seriously undemocratic actions by some very powerful people who were always happy to see their wishes fulfilled by a democratically elected government, but have no qualms about finding ways around our pesky democracy if it’s not delivering for them.

Fortunately or unfortunately, I think the former is much more likely. Labor like corporate donations almost as much as the Liberals do. And their MPs all know what happened to Rudd when he proposed making resources companies finally start paying their fair share of tax. There is more than enough careerism and nowhere enough idealism in the Labor party room for them to seriously rock the boat and risk losing safe seats.

Nah, Labor's union ties will always entrench them on the left - while Labor has been quick to occupy the middle ground thanks to the Libs departing it, that union aspect is just so central to the DNA that it will always be perceived as leftist.

Perceived, sure. In practice, Labor only seems to display solidarity with union interests when they believe they'll win votes by doing so, such as fighting Workchoices or promoting the right to disconnect from work. Their treatment of the CFMEU in the past 18 months shows they'll drop any union like a hot stone if they think the association will cost them votes.

Since at least the Accord, Labor have been playing both sides of the business-union divide, and been willing to take money from both sides. To their credit, they've managed this balancing act well, and it hasn't blown up in their faces so far. That doesn't mean it can't happen in future, though. But if push came to shove one fine day over something like AI replacing jobs, I'd fully expect them to take the side of the business sector and pressure the unions to accept the new normal.

Liberals are like a house that has become seriously termite infested - you can kid yourself that you can get rid of them, but it is just impossible. Australia, any democracy, needs realistic alternatives and that needs to be a house that is not termite infested, and has termite protection.

The alternative can take a bit of time to get going. The Nationalist Party needed time to emerge after Labor started dominating politics in the early days. So too, the Liberal Party needed a few years to kick off after Curtin had smashed the UAP.

I predict the next death and rebirth of the major non-Labor party is coming, and the viable contender that emerges will probably be more similar to the Teals than to the hard right faction of the Liberals. Until that happens, I see a long period of Labor rule if they can manage to not screw it up.

It's not unprecedented, the Liberals were continuously in power from 1949 to 1972, in part because the DLP were a thorn in the side of Labor just as the Teals are a thorn in the side of the Liberals today.