The Measuring Stick

[Bunk Moreland]

Yesterday the template for a dominant team was on display - back to back premiers. This is where we need to be.

I think assessing it like this shows well what we're missing, and also of the current group, who is perhaps not really filling a role for us.

Contested midfield beast: Mitchell

Essendon: Jobe. Tick

The General: Hodge. Dominates across half back, goes into the middle, goes forward and picks off a couple of goals

Essendon: Goddard. Tick

Defensive beast: Lake. Takes the gorillas and matches them.

Essendon: Hurley is the one for this role - think he had a pretty decent first full year in defence. Should continue to grow into this role. Tick

Defensive interceptor: Gibson. Can play on a man but it most adept at leaving his opponent to help out others.

Essendon: Hooker. Think he's already a superior player to Gibson, plus his size allows him to play on bigger forwards himself. Tick

Third tall back: Stratton. Can play on a variety of opponents effectively.

Essendon: unfortunately the time has come where we can no longer consider that Fletch will be playing this role in our next successful era. Need to fill. Cross

Defensive rebound: Suckling and Birchall provide tremendous drive off half back and precision ball use.

Essendon: Hibberd has really grown into this, and now Bags is starting to show a more attacking side to his game. Tick

Genuine speed on the wings: Smith and Hill.

Essendon: Colyer is really our only option here and he looks much improved. But he's still a little hit and miss, and he needs a mate or two. Dempsey could possibly make the shift full time. Cross

Quality midfield users: Burgoyne, Rioli. Neither are always huge accumulators but they provide that touch of class when they do get it, and can both kick goals.

Essendon: Heppell and Zaka are doing this nicely. Zaka is a genuine goalkicker. Tick

Rucks: Hale, McEvoy. I've grouped them together but they're very different players. Hale is no 1 ruck who is also an effective forward, McEvoy backup and more your pure backup.

Essendon: Ryder/Bellchambers is a fantastic combination. Should Paddy go, TBC takes the no. 1 mantle. Think he can do it, and has also looked ok as a forward. But another ruckman who can step straight in will be required. Jury out

Key forward: Roughead

Carlisle / Daniher have both shown a lot as young key forwards. A huge pair of weapons for our future. Tick

Marking option: Gunston. A "third tall" type who kicks plenty of goals.

Essendon: we were covered here with Crameri. Ambrose looks set to be the one here. Jury out

Harrasser: Puopolo. Keeps the opposition on their toes with unlimited efforts.

Essendon: Kommer looked a bit like this, but seems to have dropped off. Cross

Small forward threats: Bruest, Shiels. Both are goalkickers and also provide good defensive pressure.

Essendon: huge hole for us. Monfries was good in this position and hasn't been replaced. Winders and Chappy are the two obvious, but they're both either finished or close to. Cross

Major requirements

Third tall back
Wingman / mids with speed and quality
Quality small forwards
Ruck (should Paddy leave)

Kids

Merrett
Dalgleish
Fantasia
Kavanagh
Gleeson
Ashby
Steinberg

All these could yet develop to help fill some of the above roles. Retain, develop

Bait

Dempsey
Pears
Myers
Stanton
Melksham
Browne
Hardingham

I see these guys - of varying value - as not helping us to fill our needs, and also perhaps surplus to our current list and some kids coming through. I think these are the guys that could be used to lure picks and proven players - along with Ryder if the price is right.

Nobody ever wants to trade anyone and will find numerous reasons why not to with every player. But I think we need to consider how big and numerous the holes in our list are. If we're going to genuinely challenge for a flag whilst our leaders in Jobe and Goddard are capable, they need to be filled. Quickly. We have a good core that we don't want to waste, and we need to be aggressive - the current list isn't good enough, we're a long way off the benchmark. We need to fill that gap, and it's not going to happen with conservative list management.

The Biggest Factor

Clarkson. Love him or hate him, the guy is the master. The king of onfield tactics and targeted recruiting to fill gaps. At the end of the day, all successful teams have very strong leaders.

Hird needs a strong year in 2015, hopefully Bomber is around to assist.

 

[Ashton Agar]

I don't think Ambrose is the answer tbh. Doesn't seem to do enough for me.

 

[Zach Package]

Bait
Myers

This is the same Myers who completely bossed the game when we played Hawthorn yeah? was it 28 touches 10 clearances?

What a delightfully Essendon thing for us to do

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Goddard nowhere near Luke Hodge.

 

[Ashton Agar]

Goddard nowhere near Luke Hodge.

Yes he is. I'd take Hodge but BJ isn't that far off.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

This is the same Myers who completely bossed the game when we played Hawthorn yeah? was it 28 touches 10 clearances?

What a delightfully Essendon thing for us to do

This is what I mean re trading.

We need to identify our gaps and try to fill them.

To do this you have to offer up things of value. We're not going to get anything with the old Jetta + third round pick thing.

Myers is a good example of a player who we could trade, get something back, and who wouldn't leave a massive hole himself.

If we're not ruthless, we won't win anything.

 

[windyhill]

I don't think Ambrose is the answer tbh. Doesn't seem to do enough for me.

If ever there was a case for the line "he's an athlete not a footballer" this is it.

 

[yodellinhank]

Will to be the best: Cross.

End of.

 

[Doss]

Myers will leave a hole because Jobe probably won't be able to keep playing that role for much longer.

I'd be absolutely filthy if we traded him.

 

[Yoda_]

Ive even come around to David Myers. if we traded him, that hole between Jobe/BJ/Hocking to Heppell/??/?? is far to great. Even with Zaka there.

 

[Zach Package]

This is what I mean re trading.

We need to identify our gaps and try to fill them.

To do this you have to offer up things of value. We're not going to get anything with the old Jetta + third round pick thing.

Myers is a good example of a player who we could trade, get something back, and who wouldn't leave a massive hole himself.

If we're not ruthless, we won't win anything.

I'm all for ruthless, but this isn't ruthless, it's idiotic.

Hawthorn have landed quality players to fill gaps by trading very fringe players and draft picks, not best 22 potential 200 gamers.

Lake was draft picks, Gunston was draft picks, McEvoy was draft picks and St.Kilda's equivalent to Kyle Hardingham, Gibson was draft picks, Hale was draft picks, Cheney was a draft pick, Dew was drafted, Puopolo was drafted, Ceglar was drafted.

In fact the only one of these trades that I think that you're referring to that involved them losing an established player was the Burgoyne one which cost them Mark Williams, who as we all unfortunately know, was absolutely cooked.

'We need to identify our gaps and try to fill them' is obviously spot on (It's why O'Shea keeps getting brought up, he's not a world beater but he fills a need), but absolutely not at the expense of our established footballers.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

I don't think we need to measure ourselves directly analogously to any team. If Sydney had won yesterday, you'd be including Myers in the integral bash-and-crash x3 midfielders and the third tall could be Baguley pinch-hitting.

Some weaknesses are obvious like the lack of pace, but it's about creating a system based around our list, not Hawthorn's list, and about having literally every player on the list knowing their place in the system, and having literally any player on the list able to step up if called upon. That's what Hawthorn have done all year, it's what Ross Lyon's teams do at their best. Ceglar goes out, McEvoy comes in. Lake gets suspended, Spangher comes in and overtakes Schoenmakers. Clarkson goes out and a guy no one's ever heard of comes in, and he comes in ahead of the more fancied, more qualified and more senior Ratten because Ratten has a different job to do.

If you look at yesterday's team, McEvoy, Spangher, Hale, Duryea, Puopolo, Shiels, Stratton and arguably Suckling are all players you'd find at every club, and not necessarily in the top 8 of any club. This isn't a team built around incredible depth of talent, a list far beyond any other. Of course there are the stars, but the team is built around a system that is just so well-drilled and well-understood that every little part is done, no matter who by.

We don't need to fill the bottom 10 spots in our team with more Chappy and Z Merrett types so that we have 22 stars, we need to create a gameplan that is so independent of any specific player (but not of the make-up of our list as a whole) and so replicable that we can turn up every week and know exactly what is going to happen.

In short, yesterday wasn't a triumph of individual brilliance, so comparing the individuals seems to miss the point.

 

[Yoda_]

Our biggest weakness without a doubt is our lack of two way runners. The first half of 2013 showed we can match it with anyone. ANYONE.

 

[yaco55]

Watching the GF think we are only 4 or 5 goals off Hawthorn - In saying that making up the 4 or 5 goals can prove impossible. And I think the Hawks will slide next year - Every chance to finish out of the top 4.

 

[Despair]

If ever there was a case for the line "he's an athlete not a footballer" this is it.

Yeah nah.

First year of AFL level football and this whole board was saying he was vital to our stucture.

Great set shot for goal, huge tank, tough as nails. Kicked 3 on Hawthorn in his second game of AFL football.

I guess our club decided to give him a 2 year contract extension because he's "not a footballer" :S

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Thinking about it further, I reckon our players through their system would have won the flag just as comfortably, and their players through our system would have been somewhere around the 6th-7th mark.

Clarkson is a friggen genius.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I'm all for ruthless, but this isn't ruthless, it's idiotic.

Hawthorn have landed quality players to fill gaps by trading very fringe players and draft picks, not best 22 potential 200 gamers.

Lake was draft picks, Gunston was draft picks, McEvoy was draft picks and St.Kilda's equivalent to Kyle Hardingham, Gibson was draft picks, Hale was draft picks, Cheney was a draft pick, Dew was drafted, Puopolo was drafted, Ceglar was drafted.

In fact the only one of these trades that I think that you're referring to that involved them losing an established player was the Burgoyne one which cost them Mark Williams, who as we all unfortunately know, was absolutely cooked.

'We need to identify our gaps and try to fill them' is obviously spot on (It's why O'Shea keeps getting brought up, he's not a world beater but he fills a need), but absolutely not at the expense of our established footballers.

I take your point... The issue being with us, however... we don't have draft picks to trade.

Even next year when we do, we won't be able to, because we've already missed out on two years of the best quality picks, and we'll urgently need to bring in some in, or we'll be majorly shot in a few years time.

We have a good core at our disposal here, we're gonna need to be pretty creative if we're to take advantage of it. We have to do things a bit differently.

Myers will leave a hole because Jobe probably won't be able to keep playing that role for much longer.

I'd be absolutely filthy if we traded him.

Let's not pretend Myers is even remotely capable of playing Jobe's role. Heppell is already far more capable - he's the one who filled Jobes role when he was out.

That's who our next midfield will be built around - not Myers.

He'd be a loss, sure, but not critical one.

 

[Despair]

Thinking about it further, I reckon our players through their system would have won the flag just as comfortably, and their players through our system would have been somewhere around the 6th-7th mark.

Clarkson is a friggen genius.

Agree to an extent... however their players are simply better by foot, and it's not even close.

 

[windyhill]

Yeah nah.

First year of AFL level football and this whole board was saying he was vital to our stucture.

Great set shot for goal, huge tank, tough as nails. Kicked 3 on Hawthorn in his second game of AFL football.

I guess our club decided to give him a 2 year contract extension because he's "not a footballer" :S

You're missing my point, he came into football very late and is still very raw.

 

[Ashton Agar]

If I saw Myers dropping 70m bombs through the big sticks in any other teams colours I'd be distraught.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Thinking about it further, I reckon our players through their system would have won the flag just as comfortably, and their players through our system would have been somewhere around the 6th-7th mark.

Clarkson is a friggen genius.

Agreed.

And it's not just the system - he did put the list together. Very deliberately.

As soon as he started in 05 he was saying we're here to deliver premierships, and he went about building the list to do it. Then did it again after 2009.

Remember him coming out and delisting 14 players? Some were mature bodies, others were kids who some said still had promise. Not one of those players has gone on to achieve anything. He didn't accept mediocrity.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

If I saw Myers dropping 70m bombs through the big sticks in any other teams colours I'd be distraught.

This is the sort of thinking that discourages aggressive list building. Getting so attached to players we can't see them properly.

Myers' biggest issue is his disposal. It's not great for a midfielder.

As for 70m goals, the guy has kicked 25 goals in his whole career. He wouldn't have kicked them from outside 50m more than 10 times in 7 years. Big deal.

 

[Kakkle]

If I saw Myers dropping 70m bombs through the big sticks in any other teams colours I'd be distraught.

He has literally done that about half a dozen or so times.

 

[eth-dog]

In what world is Shiels a dangerous forward? Kicked 10 goals in a season once.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Agree to an extent... however their players are simply better by foot, and it's not even close.

A lot of that is knowing exactly where someone will be. Our DE% is very high as well, but we don't have that seemingly telepathic knowledge of where teammates will be.